(Topic ID: 142535)

Flipper Aligning Issue


By AtTheArcade

4 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 34 posts
  • 11 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 years ago by o-din
  • Topic is favorited by 3 Pinsiders

You

Linked Games

Topic Gallery

There have been 5 images uploaded to this topic. (View topic image gallery).

311873.jpg
2789247_orig.jpg
tight.jpg
IMG_20151024_222555.jpg
IMG_20151024_222551.jpg

#1 4 years ago

I just did a flipper rebuild kit from Marcos on my HS2 and I'm running into an issue with the alignment falling out of whack after a few flips. I've attached some photos to show what I'm talking about. I replaced everything for each flipper except for the coil, the flipper bat, and the bushing. I tried to do some digging on Pinside and the two main things I suppose it could be are me not tightening the bracket enough or the old flipper bat shaft is in need of replacing. I tightened the heck out of one of the flippers using the "tighten as much as you can and then 1/4 turn more" rule I read some saying in another thread but it still falls out of place after a couple of flips. Does anyone else have any experience with this issue and maybe can shed some light on the situation for me?

IMG_20151024_222551.jpg

IMG_20151024_222555.jpg

#2 4 years ago

If the flipper bat is turning on the shaft, you need a new flipper. Not likely.

CRANK that pawl nut tighter. Muscle up. Eat your Wheaties.

LTG : )™

#3 4 years ago

Is there absolutely no way it could be something else LTG?

Here's a shot under the playfield. I feel like I have this thing abnormally tight and that I'm starting to mess up the bracket and this thing is still moving. Could it be anything else or do I need to keep on tightening?

tight.jpg

#4 4 years ago

The bolt looks bent but it might just need to be tighter as I have seen others bent that were fine.

#5 4 years ago
Quoted from DCFAN:

The bolt looks bent.

Yea, I think cranking down on them more like LTG suggested actually messed them up worse. That's what I was afraid was going to happen which is why I posted on here before cranking down more. This is my first flipper rebuild but from some other posts I'm reading it looks like I need a new flipper bat and not more torque on that nut. And now it looks like I'll need a new clamp as well. :/

#6 4 years ago

In the picture the EOS switch looks backwards though I don't think that is your immediate issue. Is it possible you have misalignment and the flipper is simply not setting back into place fully?

Mike V

#7 4 years ago
Quoted from AtTheArcade:

Yea, I think cranking down on them more like LTG suggested actually messed them up worse. That's what I was afraid was going to happen which is why I posted on here before cranking down more. This is my first flipper rebuild but from some other posts I'm reading it looks like I need a new flipper bat and not more torque on that nut. And now it looks like I'll need a new clamp as well. :/

Your bats might be spinning on the shafts. If that is the case you likely already had the nut tight enough but that was not the problem.

#8 4 years ago
Quoted from RacingPin:

In the picture the EOS switch looks backwards though I don't think that is your immediate issue. Is it possible you have misalignment and the flipper is simply not setting back into place fully?
Mike V

I don't think the switch is backwards. Here is a typical flipper setup:

2789247_orig.jpg

#9 4 years ago
Quoted from RacingPin:

In the picture the EOS switch looks backwards though I don't think that is your immediate issue. Is it possible you have misalignment and the flipper is simply not setting back into place fully?
Mike V

I don't think the EOS is backwards. I actually didn't change the EOS on that flipper because it looks like it was replaced recently. But this EOS is on like the others are. But as you said, it's not an immediate issue anyways. The flippers will come out of alignment if I just push them up some.

I'm not sure if something isn't aligned. Not sure how to check for that.

#10 4 years ago
Quoted from DCFAN:

Your bats might be spinning on the shafts. If that is the case you likely already had the nut tight enough but that was not the problem.

Hmm, that could be! So new flipper bat would be the solution there right? Do you think I need to grab another bracket now too? This one is bent to mess! LOL.

#11 4 years ago

I'm sorry I thought this was the original High Speed. Those EOS switches are fine. Now did 2 of the 3 flippers go out of alignment just after you did the rebuild?

Mike V

#12 4 years ago
Quoted from RacingPin:

I'm sorry I thought this was the original High Speed. Those EOS switches are fine. Now did 2 of the 3 flippers go out of alignment just after you did the rebuild?
Mike V

All of them went out of alignment after the rebuild. I know that nut has to be pretty tight but I read on some posts where tightening helped and others were it didn't and new flipper bats were needed. I didn't want to risk messing anything up by over tightening but I think it's too late now. I'm just going to replace all three bats and the crank that's now messed up and see if that helps. I don't have the bats so I'll have to wait for them to ship to me.

#13 4 years ago
Quoted from AtTheArcade:

Is there absolutely no way it could be something else LTG?

Your pawl is shot. I'd get a new one.

LTG : )™

#14 4 years ago

Did you purchase the correct rebuild kits? I know there are different kits, and possibly those different kits handle different circumference flipper spindles. I've never seen one that cranked down that is still allowing slippage.

#15 4 years ago
Quoted from bstyles:

Did you purchase the correct rebuild kits? I know there are different kits, and possibly those different kits handle different circumference flipper spindles. I've never seen one that cranked down that is still allowing slippage.

It was the kit Marcos had listed for Getaway. The flipper bats are the only thing I can think of at this point so I'm going to replace those and hope that it fixes it.

#16 4 years ago
Quoted from AtTheArcade:

The flipper bats are the only thing I can think of

Pull it out. Grab the shaft with a vice grip. Can you turn the flipper bat ?

In your picture, the pawl has been way over tightened.

Where the shaft sits in the pawl, you could sand it/rough it up a bit and try again.

I'd start with a new pawl.

LTG : )™

#17 4 years ago

Just my opinion but when you have it all apart, may as well change the bushings too.

I may be wrong but looking at the picture, it looks like one of the bushing screws is missing. There appear to be witness marks on the plastic but no screw.

#18 4 years ago
Quoted from BagAJellyDonuts:

I may be wrong but looking at the picture, it looks like one of the bushing screws is missing.

Get a screw in there.

LTG : )™

#19 4 years ago

Going back to the first pictures, could it be that the flippers are merely getting stuck up because they are not gapped properly?

#20 4 years ago

Call me crazy but if they were slipping wouldnt they be pushed back and not forward? Maybe you tightened them with incorrect alignment?

#21 4 years ago
Quoted from PeteyJ:

Call me crazy but if they were slipping wouldnt they be pushed back and not forward? Maybe you tightened them with incorrect alignment?

In his original post he says that they are falling out of alignment after a few flips. In the picture they are in the upward position leading me to believe they may be holding because of being overly tight to the bushings(not gapped). The bats would likely be lower than wanted if the pawl was not tight enough and they were slipping.

#22 4 years ago

Thanks everyone. I went ahead and ordered new bats and new bushings (along with a new crank to replace the messed up one) just to be on the safe side.

The crank wasn't originally that tight. There was a gap. But the advice on here was "CRANK that pawl nut tighter. Muscle up. Eat your Wheaties." and in taking that advice I messed up the crank. I think replacing the bushings and the bats will solve the problem. I don't see many posts on Pinside about this issue but the few that I've come across I've ready it's either the crank isn't tight enough or the bats need replacing. I don't see the crank being the issue at this point so it seems likely that new bats will fix it. I ordered from Marcos and I usually get my parts the next day since I'm here in SC so we'll know then! I'll keep everyone posted.

#23 4 years ago

A little late to the game, but in the future if that happens(and it really shouldn't w/new)you can 'rough up' the flipper bat shaft for better grip....little marks in shaft w/file etc.

#24 4 years ago
Quoted from Cash_Riprock:

A little late to the game, but in the future if that happens(and it really shouldn't w/new)you can 'rough up' the flipper bat shaft for better grip....little marks in shaft w/file etc.

I have had to do that a few times.

I have also had a couple of bats that were crappy, and could NEVER get the pawl to tighten down on them. It happens.

#25 4 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Q: NO MATTER HOW TIGHT I MAKE THE FLIPPER PAWL, THE FLIPPER SHAFT IS STILL LOOSE.
A: DREMEL OR FILE OUT SOME MATERIAL SO THAT THERE IS A GAP IN THE TIGHTENED PAWL.
---------------------------------
Remove the clamping bolt, and file off a little material.
It won't take much.

311873.jpg

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-upgradingrebuilding-flippers/page/12#post-2013221

#26 4 years ago
Quoted from AtTheArcade:

and in taking that advice I messed up the crank.

Wasn't you. Just a bad pawl. You didn't have trouble with the others.

Every once in a great while you run into a thick one that can't be tightened, or one that squishes yet doesn't hold.

LTG : )™

#27 4 years ago

Thanks Vid! I saw your tutorial after I had finished up the rebuild and was looking for solutions as to why the alignment wasn't holding. I saw that photo yesterday but it was already too late when I did. Thanks for providing that guide to the community! I wish I would have looked it before I started messing around more.

Quoted from LTG:

Wasn't you. Just a bad pawl. You didn't have trouble with the others.
Every once in a great while you run into a thick one that can't be tightened, or one that squishes yet doesn't hold.
LTG : )™

I guess it could be a bad crank but I also didn't tighten up the other ones like that. I made sure they were snug and then I tried the ultra tightening to just that one crank. I wanted to make sure if was going to work before I messed with the other two. I think the difference was that when I was told to tighten them more I sought out a tool with more leverage that allowed me to tighten to that point. Before that new tool I had tightened that crank up as tight as I possibly could.

#28 4 years ago
Quoted from AtTheArcade:

Before that new tool I had tightened that crank up as tight as I possibly could.

Then if you run into a flipper that won't stay put again. The area where the pawl grabs the shaft, lightly sand the shaft - in that spot only. It will help the pawl bite better.

LTG : )™

#29 4 years ago

Can the flipper bats be pushed down to the correct position by hand? I still wonder if this could be a gapping issue between the bat and the bushing.
If the pawl is not gripping the bat shaft tight enough you should be able to push the bat below the normal position fairly easily.

#30 4 years ago

Some aftermarket flipper parts are soft metal Chinese junk.

#31 4 years ago
Quoted from DCFAN:

Can the flipper bats be pushed down to the correct position by hand? I still wonder if this could be a gapping issue between the bat and the bushing.
If the pawl is not gripping the bat shaft tight enough you should be able to push the bat below the normal position fairly easily.

I can reset the flipper to the proper position by hand but after a few flips it's out of whack again. I'm hoping I get my parts tomorrow but I think Marcos didn't mail part of them out today which means I'll be looking at Wednesday before I can try again. Right now the crank is bent so bad I cant get the shaft back in there. I tried prying it apart but it's not budging with the tools I have. I could stick the old crank on there but I'm probably just going to wait for the new parts before I try anything else.

#32 4 years ago

Alright...time for an update!

I swapped all three flipper bats and bushings and now I'm mostly good to go. The two right flippers don't move after multiple plays. The left flipper has a tiny bit of movement but that bushing only had one screw in it and no nut. I'm going to run to Lowe's tomorrow and grab some screws and nuts and tighten that bushing down so she'll be 100%.

So as for now the problem is solved. I appreciate all the help! I have a couple other little bugs I need to work out of my HS2 so I'll be posting again soon about those. My ColorDMD is coming tomorrow so I'm going to try and tackle that first and then fine tune the other things.

#33 4 years ago
Quoted from BagAJellyDonuts:

Just my opinion but when you have it all apart, may as well change the bushings too.
I may be wrong but looking at the picture, it looks like one of the bushing screws is missing. There appear to be witness marks on the plastic but no screw.

Good point. While not the OP's problem, I still don't understand why the bushings are NOT part of the rebuild kits. I've seen a lot of playfields damaged to to contact with flipper bats due to cracked or worn bushings.

#34 4 years ago
Quoted from bstyles:

I still don't understand why the bushings are NOT part of the rebuild kits.

If you order them from the right place, they are.

http://www.pbresource.com/rebuildkit.html#KT-WFLIP06

Promoted items from the Pinside Marketplace
$ 15.00
Playfield - Decals
Metal-Mods
$ 19.00
Boards
Tilted Pinball
$ 159.99
Lighting - Other
Lighted Pinball Mods
From: $ 40.00
Cabinet - Other
Rock Custom Pinball

Hey there! Got a moment?

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run thanks to donations from our visitors? Please donate to Pinside, support the site and get anext to your username to show for it! Donate to Pinside