(Topic ID: 159114)

Flip Flag won't flip

By pinbrick

7 years ago



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#1 7 years ago

The Flip Flags on my Bally Flip Flop do not flip. According to the game manual, Flip Flags 1-4 can be activated (to flip over) when the ball rolls over any of the 8 white buttons at the top of the playfield, or from the ball hitting any of the four red targets in front of the flip flags. However, the only thing that happens when the ball makes contact with any of the flip buttons or targets is the chimes are activated and the points are added. Occasionally Flip Flag #4 makes an attempt to flip over, but it appears extremely weak and it produces a buzzing sound under the playfield. From what I interpret from the game schematic, there are 24 switches directly associated with the Flip Flags. I have cleaned contacts on all 24 which involve removing the entire flip unit. However, I do not know if my gapping is accurate. I simply made sure the switches were in their proper Normally Open or Normally Closed state which involved bending several switch blades. I also cleaned all the buttons, targets, actuators, and the Flip Flags so they are able to move freely. The Jones plug directly connected to the flip unit also appears to be Okay. There is an apparent lack of energy or power needed to flip the flags over. Manually pressing the flip targets produces a strained buzzing sound below the playfield. As the primary feature of this game I am determined to making it work but I'm not sure what to do next. Any guidance would be appreciated.

#2 7 years ago

First thing, all four work the same way so if all for are not working we should look for something in common. But let’s start simple.

So to get No# 1 to flip, we need to make sure the No#1 flip Relay is not energised and then close the No#1 target Switch, this should energise the No#1 Target Relay, and in turn energise the No#1 flip coil.

So Below, the red line happens first. We close the target Sw, than though a Sw on the #1 Flip RE with Orange/Red wire and Grey/Yellow wire, this should energise the #1 Target Relay and it should stay on by its own hold sw (Purple line below).

Now the #1Target RE is energised , the Target RE SW (Green line) is closed, at least should be. Then we go thought the #1 Flip RE Sw Grey/Red wire and White/Blue wire, energising the Flip coil.

Hope this is as clear as mud, but let us know what you fine, and we will take it from there.

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#3 7 years ago

Hi pinbrick
strange - in here: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/flip-flag-frustration I wrote in post-2
about "Self-Hold-Circuitry of the No-1, No-2, No-3, No-4-Target-Relays - do they pull-in long (time) enough (so the activating of the flip-goodies can be done) ?" -
No answer, but "topic marked as solved" (?)

Here again - my question -> ipdb-schema -> H-20 -> the End-of-stroke-Switch on Bonus-Unit -> is this Normally-Closed-Switch truely closed ? contact-points clean ? wires soldered-on ? (((When the Bonus-Unit is stepped-up one step: at the very end of movement this EOS-Switch is opened, it has soldered-on: wire-color-30-yellow and wire-color-65-brown-white))). Greetings Rolf

#4 7 years ago

I marked that post resolved because the the points regarding the Bonus Unit appeared affirmative. The NC Switch was closed; I did clean the contacts; the wires were soldered on (although to what extent the original wire threads were still on the strand) (How important is the 'amount' of wire that is actually connected to the terminal? What about wire gauge for EM Pinballs?)
However, I am unclear as to what position the stepper on the Bonus Unit needs to be to determine all this? Stepped-up one step from what? I have much yet to learn. Clarification is appreciated.

#5 7 years ago

Hi pinbrick
the "Flip Flop" is a "modern" pin - the manufacturers invented a feature I do NOT like - it makes troubleshooting more difficult. The feature is - When a ball is kicked over to the shooter alley: The Bonus ladder is stepped up one step --- ALL balls start with ONE bonus.

Well, you play a given ball -> You make points and bonus -> You loose the ball -> rolls into the Outhole -> "Bonus count down is activated" -> Bonus counted down to ZERO -> then activating the Outhole Relay -> this does make the ball kicked over to the shooter alley AND makes the Bonus Unit to step-up one step (I do not like that feature).

When we want to be nice and friendly to the pin: We unplug the main power chord (or at least toggle-off the main power switch - Safety Reasons) -> we manually step down the Bonus Unit to position Zero (we simulate: Game before has ended normal - means: Bonus ladder has been completely stepped down) -> we plug-in and start a new game -> Reset shoulfd be done -> Outhole-Relay should be activated -> ball should be kicked over to the shooter alley AND the Bonus Unit should be stepped up ONE step.

Unplug the main power chord and step the Bonus-Unit into a direction -> all the way. The plug-in and start a game -> what happens ?
Then unplug the main power chord and step the Bonus Unit all the way into THE OTHER DIRECTION etc. -> -> what happens ?

The Bonus Unit can (only) step into two directions - try out both. Maybe You see on the playfield (when plugging-in / toggling-on): Bonus are on the Bonus Counter (?).

I am German speaking - what is "wire threads were still on the strand" ? / "Amount of wire" ?

The wires (gauge) used in the pins are rather "thin wires" or "heavier wires" - a wire that connects "transformer-HOT-Side -> Lug on coil (A) -> Lug on coil (B) -> C, D, E etc": heavier wire.
The same with "wire leading (back) to transformer-Lug-Yellow".

Write, if You habe problems "stepping up / stepping down" on the Bonus Unit.
Write about a specific "problem to be solved". Greetings Rolf

#6 7 years ago

Thank you for explaining that. So I want to (yes, unplug first is wise) manually press in the plunger on the lower coil until the stepper stops moving? Does that indicate I have reached the zero position? I will do this. Regarding the wire, yes, the amount of wire that remains attached/soldered to the lug may be less than complete. I've noticed some wires in other parts of the game have broken or cut to some extent and I'm wondering if that could effect the function of whatever it is powering. I shall report.

#7 7 years ago

Hi pinbrick
a wire can be "A) soldered-on" or it has "B) broken-off --- but accidently stay in place making contact - sometimes ..." or "C) has broken-off completely and the broken-off end touches NOTHING else" or "D has broken-off and the broken-off end toches some other place".

I prefer simple "C" type errors - I like more the type of error "something is not happening" I like more than "a crazy thing IS happening".

I do not know the Flip-Flop-Bonus-Unit - there are two possibilities to step - if we want to step down - so I wrote "try out both directions".

Actually the Flip-Flop must and running pins do: When You start a new game (game before has ended ab-normal, some bonus still on the counter) - when resetting the Score-Drums for a new game: At the same time : (fully functioning) Flip-Flop pins do ALSO (at the same time) reset / step down the Bonus-Ladder.
So we might as well check it -> manually step the bonus-Unit somewhere into "middle position" - then start a game - question: Whzen the Reset-Relay is pulling and the Score-Motor is running: Does the pin ALSO steps down the Bonus Unit ? Greetings Rolf

#8 7 years ago

What exactly do I do to close the #1 Target switch? I follow the schematic and your diagram, but do I hold closed the Orange/Red switch at the #1 Target? or hold closed the switch at the #1 Target Relay? I understand we are forcing an alternate route to energize the Flip coil.

#9 7 years ago

Hi pinbrick
I do not know the Flip Flop (have played it - but many years ago). Here: http://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=889&picno=10200&zoom=1 on top there are Rollover-Buttons. I believe: They do activate the corresponding No-X-Target-Relay (1,2,3,4). BUT - IF (if) - for the brain of the pin: The corresponding flip-goodie HAS (ALREADY) flipped: Simple 100 points are given - the No-X-Target-Relay is no more activated.

Look at schema H-14: Two No-1-Rollover-Bottons -> A Make-and-Brake-Switch on No-1-Flip-Relay -> maybe -> No-1-Target-Relay is activated --- maybe -> -> text: "to G-26" -> at G-26 the 100-Point-Relay is activated.
So look at No-1-Flip-Relay - pulling or not pulling ? Its Make-and-Brake-switch ? contacts-points clean ? wires soldered-on ? middle blade touches EITHER Outside-Blade-A (not pulling) --- OR touches Outside-Blade-B (relay is pulling) ? Greetings Rolf

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