(Topic ID: 249276)

Flip a Card Pop bumper rebuild?


By Sea_Wolf

7 days ago



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#1 7 days ago

The last thing that I need to address is the non scoring middle pop bumper. Just wondering if there is something I’m missing, or is a rebuild recommended? Everything on the underside of the playfield moves freely and I’ve cleaned both switches under the pop and the 4 switches on the ‘Red Pop Bumper’ Relay and they all seem to be adjusted properly. Here’s a video of the pops. I can also upload a video of the pop bumper under the playfield if that helps. FWIW, the middle pop lamp never lights up either. I’ve changed the bulb but not cleaned up the socket yet.

Less than a year of owning EMs so I’m pretty new to the repair side. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

#2 7 days ago

It would really help if you had the schematic. I don't have one for this pin, but someone else in this subforum will surely chime in (no pun intended, haha). Otherwise, the first suspect would be loss of continuity between the errant pop's switches (and bulb socket) and the 100 point score reel and/or the 100 point relay. Easy enough to check those paths. Don't rebuild anything until you rule out all the usual suspects!

#3 7 days ago

The light on the red pop bumper is in the 25v section of your schematic, if you have one. It is powered by a make/break switch on the 0-9 unit which is the AS stepper in the backbox that also runs your match function. In order to be lit on the 25v side it uses a 75 ohm 10 watt resistor in order to knock the voltage down to where it won't blow the bulb right away.

It could be that the resistor has gone bad but I think more than likely your 0-9 AS stepper is not moving. Have you noticed whether or not your match lights change? If not this is more than likely your issue. You need to remove that relay from the game, it just unplugs via two jones plugs, and get it cleaned up and stepping correctly. They are fiddly but can be made to step properly. This game has two of them, on of them is the 0-9 unit we're talking about, and the other is under the playfield that is part of the spin when you land in the hole. That kicks off the spinner unit on the motor board and every time that unit make contact, it steps the spin unit under the playfield one position. If it isn't functioning properly your spin will not function properly either.

As for why your bumper is sluggish, you need to rebuild it. As a matter of course I rebuild every single bumper of every single game I take in to restore. The parts are too cheap not to do it. The bumper pulls in and is activated by the spoon switch on the bumper itself. That fires the F relay which is the red bumper relay. That in turn sends power to the bumper coil and it pulls in. You need to make sure that all the switches on the F relay are clean and adjusted properly, along with the contact on the spoon switch. If the 10 point bumpers are scoring then the problem is not with the 10 point relay. The red bumper scores 10 when not lit. There is a second switch that is open on the switch stack for the bumper where the spoon switch is. That switch is held open by the fiber yoke on the bumper mechanism. When the bumper coil pulls the plunger in that switch is allowed to close and that fires either the 10 or 100 point relay, depending on whether or not the bumper is lit.

That's the starting points for you to check. But I definitely think you should rebuild the bumper. Clean everything up good and replace all the parts and I'll bet it fires just fine. Before you do that, you can check the resistance of the bumper coil and see where it is. The proper coil is an A-4893 which should have a resistance of about 2 ohms. If you're not getting about that resistance that can be part of your issue too.

#4 6 days ago

Thanks for the informative responses. I do have the schematic and will be referring to your advice when I get home.

#5 6 days ago
Quoted from EMsInKC:

The light on the red pop bumper is in the 25v section of your schematic, if you have one. It is powered by a make/break switch on the 0-9 unit which is the AS stepper in the backbox that also runs your match function. In order to be lit on the 25v side it uses a 75 ohm 10 watt resistor in order to knock the voltage down to where it won't blow the bulb right away.
It could be that the resistor has gone bad but I think more than likely your 0-9 AS stepper is not moving. Have you noticed whether or not your match lights change? If not this is more than likely your issue. You need to remove that relay from the game, it just unplugs via two jones plugs, and get it cleaned up and stepping correctly. They are fiddly but can be made to step properly. This game has two of them, on of them is the 0-9 unit we're talking about, and the other is under the playfield that is part of the spin when you land in the hole. That kicks off the spinner unit on the motor board and every time that unit make contact, it steps the spin unit under the playfield one position. If it isn't functioning properly your spin will not function properly either.
As for why your bumper is sluggish, you need to rebuild it. As a matter of course I rebuild every single bumper of every single game I take in to restore. The parts are too cheap not to do it. The bumper pulls in and is activated by the spoon switch on the bumper itself. That fires the F relay which is the red bumper relay. That in turn sends power to the bumper coil and it pulls in. You need to make sure that all the switches on the F relay are clean and adjusted properly, along with the contact on the spoon switch. If the 10 point bumpers are scoring then the problem is not with the 10 point relay. The red bumper scores 10 when not lit. There is a second switch that is open on the switch stack for the bumper where the spoon switch is. That switch is held open by the fiber yoke on the bumper mechanism. When the bumper coil pulls the plunger in that switch is allowed to close and that fires either the 10 or 100 point relay, depending on whether or not the bumper is lit.
That's the starting points for you to check. But I definitely think you should rebuild the bumper. Clean everything up good and replace all the parts and I'll bet it fires just fine. Before you do that, you can check the resistance of the bumper coil and see where it is. The proper coil is an A-4893 which should have a resistance of about 2 ohms. If you're not getting about that resistance that can be part of your issue too.

Thanks for all the detail. If I do rebuild the pop bumper, I’m assuming pbresource is the place to go for parts?

#6 6 days ago
Quoted from Sea_Wolf:

Thanks for all the detail. If I do rebuild the pop bumper, I’m assuming pbresource is the place to go for parts?

Absolutely

#7 6 days ago

A couple of things to report that I checked so far as EMsinKC suggested. The 0-9 stepper in the backbox steps up like it should. It rotates once when a 100 point rollover is hit, once when a 50 point Target is hit twice and so on. Also the match number does change with each game.

I checked the resistance on all 3 pop bumper coils and the 2 working yellow pops measure about 2.2 but the sluggish red middle pop measures 5.6.

Going to Check continuity between the pop bumper switches and bulb socket next as fixintoplay suggested.

Appreciate the help guys.

#8 6 days ago
Quoted from Sea_Wolf:

A couple of things to report that I checked so far as EMsinKC suggested. The 0-9 stepper in the backbox steps up like it should. It rotates once when a 100 point rollover is hit, once when a 50 point Target is hit twice and so on. Also the match number does change with each game.
I checked the resistance on all 3 pop bumper coils and the 2 working yellow pops measure about 2.2 but the sluggish red middle pop measures 5.6.
Going to Check continuity between the pop bumper switches and bulb socket next as fixintoplay suggested.
Appreciate the help guys.

The pop bumper relay switches don't control the bulb. The switch on the 0-9 unit does that.

The circuit for the socket goes though a normally closed motor 1C and the make/break switch on the 0-9 relay. There is also the resistor. That is it. Checking continuity ad you want to do will tell you nothing.

The bulb could be bad, the socket might not be soldered correctly, one of the switches may be dirty or out of adjustment, or the resistor is bad. That's all there could be.

The switch you're looking for is on the 0-9 unit tucked up between the circuit boards. It is a make/break that changes state with each step. It has to be adjusted correctly or you'll never get a light and you'll never get 100 points for that bumper because the circuit to energize the 100 point relay also depends on that switch. If the bumper doesn't score at all you might have the issue discussed above.

The resistance in the bumper coil is too high and the coil is too weak.

#9 6 days ago
Quoted from EMsInKC:

The pop bumper relay switches don't control the bulb. The switch on the 0-9 unit does that.
The circuit for the socket goes though a normally closed motor 1C and the make/break switch on the 0-9 relay. There is also the resistor. That is it. Checking continuity ad you want to do will tell you nothing.
The bulb could be bad, the socket might not be soldered correctly, one of the switches may be dirty or out of adjustment, or the resistor is bad. That's all there could be.
The switch you're looking for is on the 0-9 unit tucked up between the circuit boards. It is a make/break that changes state with each step. It has to be adjusted correctly or you'll never get a light and you'll never get 100 points for that bumper because the circuit to energize the 100 point relay also depends on that switch. If the bumper doesn't score at all you might have the issue discussed above.
The resistance in the bumper coil is too high and the coil is too weak.

Very helpful. The lamp socket seems extra loose compared to the two working pops. I guess I’ll have to take the pop bumper apart to find out if it’s not soldered in right. I’ll check the circuit you mentioned first.
Replace the resistor and/or coil?

I saw where you had a thread on here recently that addressed issues with the spin unit. I just now realized that mine is probably not functioning correctly. It only moves exactly 2 numbers (or spots) every time you get a ball in the kickout hole. Thanks again.

#10 6 days ago
Quoted from Sea_Wolf:

Very helpful. The lamp socket seems extra loose compared to the two working pops. I guess I’ll have to take the pop bumper apart to find out if it’s not soldered in right. I’ll check the circuit you mentioned first.
Replace the resistor and/or coil?
I saw where you had a thread on here recently that addressed issues with the spin unit. I just now realized that mine is probably not functioning correctly. It only moves exactly 2 numbers (or spots) every time you get a ball in the kickout hole. Thanks again.

You can check the underside of the playfield where the leads come though to check the solder connection. You can also check the resistor to see what is up there. I would definitely replace the coil if that resistance figure is correct.

The spin unit is a cool piece of engineering. On the motor board is the actual unit that starts the spin. It is a step up/reset stepper unit. It steps up until a maximum step up position opens a switch and the step up coil circuit is opened. When the ball goes in the hole or down the outlines it totally resets and in doing so starts the spinner. The spinner looks like a regular playfield rollunder spinner. It's attached to an arm that goes up and down with each rotation and closes a switch. That switch steps the AS spin unit one time each time the switch closes. That unit moves the lights around on the playfield until the spin stops and scores whatever it lands on.

It is imperative that the spinner unit is stepping up to the max to give a good spin and imperative that the AS spin unit is stepping properly. I spent a lot of time getting that working right when I restored my game. You can find instructions for cleaning and adjusting those AS units. They are touchy to deal with but once you clean them and get them stepping right they're pretty reliable. They can be rebuilt. PBR sells a rebuild kit for them.

If you need more help holler.

#11 6 days ago
Quoted from EMsInKC:

You can check the underside of the playfield where the leads come though to check the solder connection. You can also check the resistor to see what is up there. I would definitely replace the coil if that resistance figure is correct.
The spin unit is a cool piece of engineering. On the motor board is the actual unit that starts the spin. It is a step up/reset stepper unit. It steps up until a maximum step up position opens a switch and the step up coil circuit is opened. When the ball goes in the hole or down the outlines it totally resets and in doing so starts the spinner. The spinner looks like a regular playfield rollunder spinner. It's attached to an arm that goes up and down with each rotation and closes a switch. That switch steps the AS spin unit one time each time the switch closes. That unit moves the lights around on the playfield until the spin stops and scores whatever it lands on.
It is imperative that the spinner unit is stepping up to the max to give a good spin and imperative that the AS spin unit is stepping properly. I spent a lot of time getting that working right when I restored my game. You can find instructions for cleaning and adjusting those AS units. They are touchy to deal with but once you clean them and get them stepping right they're pretty reliable. They can be rebuilt. PBR sells a rebuild kit for them.
If you need more help holler.

Will do. Thanks a bunch.

#12 6 days ago
Quoted from EMsInKC:

You can check the underside of the playfield where the leads come though to check the solder connection. You can also check the resistor to see what is up there. I would definitely replace the coil if that resistance figure is correct.
The spin unit is a cool piece of engineering. On the motor board is the actual unit that starts the spin. It is a step up/reset stepper unit. It steps up until a maximum step up position opens a switch and the step up coil circuit is opened. When the ball goes in the hole or down the outlines it totally resets and in doing so starts the spinner. The spinner looks like a regular playfield rollunder spinner. It's attached to an arm that goes up and down with each rotation and closes a switch. That switch steps the AS spin unit one time each time the switch closes. That unit moves the lights around on the playfield until the spin stops and scores whatever it lands on.
It is imperative that the spinner unit is stepping up to the max to give a good spin and imperative that the AS spin unit is stepping properly. I spent a lot of time getting that working right when I restored my game. You can find instructions for cleaning and adjusting those AS units. They are touchy to deal with but once you clean them and get them stepping right they're pretty reliable. They can be rebuilt. PBR sells a rebuild kit for them.
If you need more help holler.

Here’s a video of the spin unit with me manually activating the SPIN kickout hole on the playfield. It looks like the unit is not stepping up near enough. Is that the problem you had with yours? Mine only steps up 2 -3 spots on the playfield each time. I’ve seen videos of others working properly and spinning the lights 2 full rotations before settling on a card.

Should I start cleaning and looking at adjustments or think about finding a rebuild kit in your opinion? Thanks. Danny

#13 6 days ago

Hard to tell what the unit is doing there. I can hear it step five times and it appears the bakelite piece that actually hits the spinner is going back, but when you hit the switch in the hole it is not coming through and hitting the spinner. It might be a case that the bakelite piece that hits the spinner is not properly located.

That unit doesn't generally need a rebuild. It's the spin unit that is an AS relay that sits on the underside of the playfield on the left side. That's usually what doesn't step properly.

#14 6 days ago
Quoted from EMsInKC:

Hard to tell what the unit is doing there. I can hear it step five times and it appears the bakelite piece that actually hits the spinner is going back, but when you hit the switch in the hole it is not coming through and hitting the spinner. It might be a case that the bakelite piece that hits the spinner is not properly located.
That unit doesn't generally need a rebuild. It's the spin unit that is an AS relay that sits on the underside of the playfield on the left side. That's usually what doesn't step properly.

I see. The spinner should be making multiple rotations to move the lights on the playfield. That makes sense.

I’ll check everything to see if something is not in the right place or loose under there. It really is a cool feature though. Thanks.

#15 5 days ago
Quoted from EMsInKC:

Hard to tell what the unit is doing there. I can hear it step five times and it appears the bakelite piece that actually hits the spinner is going back, but when you hit the switch in the hole it is not coming through and hitting the spinner. It might be a case that the bakelite piece that hits the spinner is not properly located.
That unit doesn't generally need a rebuild. It's the spin unit that is an AS relay that sits on the underside of the playfield on the left side. That's usually what doesn't step properly.

It looks like something is broken off the part of the Bakelite that smacks the spinner. I could be wrong, maybe it’s just wear but it looks like it fires but barely makes contact with the spinner. Almost going under it. The spinner itself moves free and fast when manually spun.

Posting a picture of the Bakelite. Same as yours or broken off at the tip?

Thanks again.

5F39C15F-E0C0-4C18-BE04-A05FE085D76C (resized).jpeg
#16 5 days ago

It's broken off.

You might be able to get it to work by removing it and repositioning. Or fabricate a new one.

Might call Steve Young and see if by any chance he has a used one. He's got so many used parts.

#17 5 days ago

For comparison there's a video of a working Spin Unit at: https://www.funwithpinball.com/exhibits/small-boards#SpinUnit

/Mark

#18 5 days ago
Quoted from EMsInKC:

It's broken off.
You might be able to get it to work by removing it and repositioning. Or fabricate a new one.
Might call Steve Young and see if by any chance he has a used one. He's got so many used parts.

Thanks for all the help. It’s a relief to be able to diagnose the problem and learn on the way.

#19 5 days ago
Quoted from MarkG:

For comparison there's a video of a working Spin Unit at: https://www.funwithpinball.com/exhibits/small-boards#SpinUnit
/Mark

That’s awesome Mark. That whole description and video is incredible.

Thanks for that. You guys help keep the one pin life going.

#20 5 days ago
Quoted from EMsInKC:

It's broken off.
You might be able to get it to work by removing it and repositioning. Or fabricate a new one.
Might call Steve Young and see if by any chance he has a used one. He's got so many used parts.

If you get time someday, I’d love to see a picture of what the Bakelite is supposed to look like. It might help me with knowing if I can remake it someway.

#21 5 days ago
Quoted from Sea_Wolf:

If you get time someday, I’d love to see a picture of what the Bakelite is supposed to look like. It might help me with knowing if I can remake it someway.

I'll try and get a picture. It's just like on the video Mark linked, kind of teardrop shaped with a small protrusion at the point which hits the spinner and starts it going.

FWIW, it should spin even better than that one does. Mine with complete several revolutions of the lights before the spin stops.

#22 5 days ago
Quoted from EMsInKC:

I'll try and get a picture. It's just like on the video Mark linked, kind of teardrop shaped with a small protrusion at the point which hits the spinner and starts it going.
FWIW, it should spin even better than that one does. Mine with complete several revolutions of the lights before the spin stops.

If I could blow up the picture of the unit that Mark sent, I could see it better but I couldn’t. I think I can see enough of the tip though. I’m wondering if feathering on a tiny bit of Bondo to the tip might do the trick.

#23 4 days ago

Maybe these will help.

IMG_1082 (resized).JPGIMG_1087 (resized).JPG
#24 4 days ago
Quoted from Pinbee:

Maybe these will help.[quoted image][quoted image]

Definitely. That closeup pic tells me exactly how much Bondo to add and how to shape it. I added enough Bondo last night and will sand it to that shape when I get home from work.

Much appreciated Pinbee.

#25 4 days ago
Quoted from MarkG:

For comparison there's a video of a working Spin Unit at: https://www.funwithpinball.com/exhibits/small-boards#SpinUnit
/Mark

MarkG: I thought I'd seen most every EM gismo there is until your fascinating video. Thanks for posting. I hadn't paid much attention to Flip A Card because I wasn't drawn to the theme. Curious what other EM titles have that.

Seawolf: if that bondo doesn't hold up, remake the disk out of .20" plexiglass. That stepper wafer is easy to repro: no copper paths or contacts. Took me about about 30 minutes for one I made. We do what we have to do.

#26 4 days ago
Quoted from fixintoplay:

MarkG: I thought I'd seen most every EM gismo there is until your fascinating video. Thanks for posting. I hadn't paid much attention to Flip A Card because I wasn't drawn to the theme. Curious what other EM titles have that.
Seawolf: if that bondo doesn't hold up, remake the disk out of .20" plexiglass. That stepper wafer is easy to repro: no copper paths or contacts. Took me about about 30 minutes for one I made. We do what we have to do.

Thanks for the info. The plexiglass idea sounds like a pretty cool substitute. What did you cut it to shape with? Bandsaw?

I ran the Bondo down onto the Bakelite piece enough to where hopefully it will hold up but if it doesn’t, I’ll definitely try the plexiglass.

#27 4 days ago

I picked up a Dremel Moto Saw a few years ago for half price on eBay. Really neat little bench-mount machine I use more than I expected. Even made a few repro PF plastics -- no one can tell the difference. But for one piece, use a hand coping saw with a fine blade. Trace the old part, cut the new, drill holes, sand/file. Leave more material around the tip to custom-fit. I don't trust bonding agents against wear factors, but I hope it works for you.

#28 4 days ago
Quoted from fixintoplay:

I picked up a Dremel Moto Saw a few years ago for half price on eBay. Really neat little bench-mount machine I use more than I expected. Even made a few repro PF plastics -- no one can tell the difference. But for one piece, use a hand coping saw with a fine blade. Trace the old part, cut the new, drill holes, sand/file. Leave more material around the tip to custom-fit. I don't trust bonding agents against wear factors, but I hope it works for you.

Yeah I’m hoping that the fact of the spinner being so lightweight, the Bondo job might hold. I’ll definitely update on the Spin Unit soon and also the OP of the weak Pop bumper as soon as I replace the coil. Thanks for helpful alternative info.

#29 3 days ago

Thanks to Mark’s incredible video and EMs in KC advice on the AS spin relay I’m getting it narrowed down. After building up the teardrop tip it seems to be making good contact with the spinner but the little stepper that spins around on the AS Relay when the spinner switch closes is not spinning at all. EMs in KC suggested a delicate cleaning of the unit so I’ll take a bunch of pictures and proceed carefully. I did happen to notice after unscrewing the relay from the bottom of the playfield that the pawl was way off center from the ratchet. All the solder tabs and wires look intact. Any cleaning advice is certainly welcome.

#30 3 days ago
Quoted from Sea_Wolf:

EMs in KC suggested a delicate cleaning of the unit so I’ll take a bunch of pictures and proceed carefully. I did happen to notice after unscrewing the relay from the bottom of the playfield that the pawl was way off center from the ratchet. All the solder tabs and wires look intact. Any cleaning advice is certainly welcome.

I'd sneak up on it. Once taken apart the AS relay is really tricky to get dialed in again. Start with cleaning what you can without removing anything to see how far that gets you. If it doesn't work after that then remove just a piece or two, clean and reassemble, and reevaluate where you are. A toothbrush and a good cleaner or mineral spirits can be a big help here.

The AS relay works like any other stepper that advances in just one direction. It needs to take a clean step forward and not slip back when the armature relaxes. The problem is that since it is so small the tolerances and adjustments are really touchy.

#31 3 days ago
Quoted from MarkG:

I'd sneak up on it. Once taken apart the AS relay is really tricky to get dialed in again. Start with cleaning what you can without removing anything to see how far that gets you. If it doesn't work after that then remove just a piece or two, clean and reassemble, and reevaluate where you are. A toothbrush and a good cleaner or mineral spirits can be a big help here.
The AS relay works like any other stepper that advances in just one direction. It needs to take a clean step forward and not slip back when the armature relaxes. The problem is that since it is so small the tolerances and adjustments are really touchy.

I will follow that advice and keep everything together. Good news is have mineral spirits and lots of small brushes that are meant for delicate work.

One area of concern that I could see is that you can tell by one of the off sized screws that held the relay to the playfield, that someone has at least messed with this unit before. I guess for a 50 yo machine that’s understandable, it’s not what I’ve seen on the rest of the machine for the most part. It looks mostly clean from Mr. Ham Hands.

Thanks Mark.

#32 2 days ago
Quoted from MarkG:

I'd sneak up on it. Once taken apart the AS relay is really tricky to get dialed in again. Start with cleaning what you can without removing anything to see how far that gets you. If it doesn't work after that then remove just a piece or two, clean and reassemble, and reevaluate where you are. A toothbrush and a good cleaner or mineral spirits can be a big help here.
The AS relay works like any other stepper that advances in just one direction. It needs to take a clean step forward and not slip back when the armature relaxes. The problem is that since it is so small the tolerances and adjustments are really touchy.

After gently cleaning the AS relay tiny stepper unit it seems that the wipers now set up but it looks like the problem is with the teardrop Bakelite piece not following thru far enough to make the spinner spin. The Bondo is holding up fine and I sanded it to a match of the picture that Pinbee sent me but it for some reason stops it’s hammering motion just under the spinner. It’s not getting stuck, it’s just not following thru that extra 1/3-1/2 inch like it does in your video.

Possible spring issue or maybe it’s not position right in the first place?

#33 2 days ago
Quoted from Sea_Wolf:

After gently cleaning the AS relay tiny stepper unit it seems that the wipers now set up but it looks like the problem is with the teardrop Bakelite piece not following thru far enough to make the spinner spin. The Bondo is holding up fine and I sanded it to a match of the picture that Pinbee sent me but it for some reason stops it’s hammering motion just under the spinner. It’s not getting stuck, it’s just not following thru that extra 1/3-1/2 inch like it does in your video.
Possible spring issue or maybe it’s not position right in the first place?

It has to go a bit past the spinner. It's adjustable. Manually step it back, if memory services it will step about 9 times until it won't step any further. There is a switch that opens at that point to open the circuit to the step up coil. It will step up 5 times the first time and then 4 the second and that's all you'll get. Then manually hit the reset plunger on the reset coil and see how it goes. It's not difficult, mostly a matter of getting it adjusted correctly. You also have to make sure that when the spinner spins the arm that has the switch on it is going up and down correctly and the switch is making good contact on each revolution.

I'm going to disagree with Mark just a bit, once you actually take an AS apart and see how it works it's not really all that difficult to reassemble. It can be touchy at times to dial in right but Gottlieb put out instructions on how to adjust them. Steve might have that on the website. If not it's usually in the manual for any game that has a manual, which unfortunately FAC does not. They kind of scared my at first too but you just have to take the plunge and go for it. They have to work properly, especially in this game because the spin is a big part of it. It's also a big part of that center bumper because there is a make/break switch on it that alternates that bumper's scoring and the light.

LOL, we've gotten so tangled up with the spinner what's the status on the original problem, the center bumper?

#34 2 days ago
Quoted from EMsInKC:

It has to go a bit past the spinner. It's adjustable. Manually step it back, if memory services it will step about 9 times until it won't step any further. There is a switch that opens at that point to open the circuit to the step up coil. It will step up 5 times the first time and then 4 the second and that's all you'll get. Then manually hit the reset plunger on the reset coil and see how it goes. It's not difficult, mostly a matter of getting it adjusted correctly. You also have to make sure that when the spinner spins the arm that has the switch on it is going up and down correctly and the switch is making good contact on each revolution.
I'm going to disagree with Mark just a bit, once you actually take an AS apart and see how it works it's not really all that difficult to reassemble. It can be touchy at times to dial in right but Gottlieb put out instructions on how to adjust them. Steve might have that on the website. If not it's usually in the manual for any game that has a manual, which unfortunately FAC does not. They kind of scared my at first too but you just have to take the plunge and go for it. They have to work properly, especially in this game because the spin is a big part of it. It's also a big part of that center bumper because there is a make/break switch on it that alternates that bumper's scoring and the light.
LOL, we've gotten so tangled up with the spinner what's the status on the original problem, the center bumper?

Thanks. I’m going to refer to your post later today when I see if I can adjust the mechanism so that it goes just past the spinner. The switches that the spinner get going seem to move like they should. I’ll double check again.

About the pop bumper, after measuring the resistance multiple times it was always in the 5.6 range so I ordered a new coil and it will be here Monday. I figured it was worth a shot before I tackle a rebuild. What do you think? Thanks again for all the help

#35 1 day ago
Quoted from Sea_Wolf:

Thanks. I’m going to refer to your post later today when I see if I can adjust the mechanism so that it goes just past the spinner. The switches that the spinner get going seem to move like they should. I’ll double check again.
About the pop bumper, after measuring the resistance multiple times it was always in the 5.6 range so I ordered a new coil and it will be here Monday. I figured it was worth a shot before I tackle a rebuild. What do you think? Thanks again for all the help

Still would have rebuilt it.

Check the second switch on the pop bumper switch stack to make sure it makes when the bumper pulls in

#36 1 day ago

Well I’m making some progress on the spin unit. I reshaped the tip of the teardrop Bakelite piece with Bondo and had to adjust the screws forward on it so it now kicks past the spinner and the spinner spins nice. Bad news is it’s still only advancing two lights like before and I see that the little steppers on the AS Relay are not revolving like the one in Mark’s video. I cleaned and adjusted the switches right next to the spinner and they seem to be making good contact. Strictly the AS Relay is the problem do you guys think? I haven’t taken it apart yet but gently cleaned the wipers. Here’s a couple of videos of both


#37 15 hours ago

If you manually close the switch on the spinner you should see the AS relay fire. Doing that repeatedly should give you a better idea whether it's the switch driving the AS relay, or the relay itself that's the problem.

The AS relay often has its own jones plugs so you can unplug them and remove the relay from the game to work on it. Either way, you should be able to manually push in the AS relay's armature and have it snap back into its rest position while advancing the wipers by one step. If it's not doing that more cleaning and/or adjustment may be in order.

If you're comfortable with mechanical adjustments go ahead and take the AS relay apart as emsinkc suggested. If you're slow and careful you'll figure it out. I think some rush into disassembly without understanding how it works and struggle to get it back together and adjusted properly.

The adjustment instructions are available in several places online including ipdb.org:
https://www.ipdb.org/files/2233/Gottlieb_1975_Soccer_AS_Relay_Adjustment_A_11492.pdf
https://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=1768&picno=31942

There's also an unrelated Service Bulletin for Flip A Card on ipdb.org that I found when I had the game:
https://ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=890&picno=40318

#38 7 hours ago
Quoted from MarkG:

If you manually close the switch on the spinner you should see the AS relay fire. Doing that repeatedly should give you a better idea whether it's the switch driving the AS relay, or the relay itself that's the problem.
The AS relay often has its own jones plugs so you can unplug them and remove the relay from the game to work on it. Either way, you should be able to manually push in the AS relay's armature and have it snap back into its rest position while advancing the wipers by one step. If it's not doing that more cleaning and/or adjustment may be in order.
If you're comfortable with mechanical adjustments go ahead and take the AS relay apart as emsinkc suggested. If you're slow and careful you'll figure it out. I think some rush into disassembly without understanding how it works and struggle to get it back together and adjusted properly.
The adjustment instructions are available in several places online including ipdb.org:
https://www.ipdb.org/files/2233/Gottlieb_1975_Soccer_AS_Relay_Adjustment_A_11492.pdf
https://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=1768&picno=31942
There's also an unrelated Service Bulletin for Flip A Card on ipdb.org that I found when I had the game:
https://ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=890&picno=40318

Thanks for all the great info Mark. I’ll be updating soon I hope.

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