(Topic ID: 123236)

Flintstones Troubleshooting

By earflaps

9 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

  • 26 posts
  • 7 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 6 months ago by PinRetail
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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#1 9 years ago

I finished up bringing back a Flintstones from a trip to the dump. Everything was tore apart, cleaned or replaced as necessary. Upon firing it up for the first time, it appears something is not quite right. I haven't done a whole lot of troubleshooting yet but there are so many talented people on Pinside, I thought I would ask for some obvious things to check first.

Everything is working except the majority of the coils don't want to fire. The Flippers are working fine and the rock crusher motor, but that's it...no other coils. I 've gone through the test and tried to get them to manually fire but they won't. Switches work fine. All that happens is that the game appears to fire up as normal once selecting start...sound, lights switches registering points, etc but the ball won't kick up and the launch button does nothing...even if I manually put a ball in the shooting lane.

I've gone through all the wiring and rechecked the connections in the backbox but nothing jumps out at me. I'm not at home to check anything right now but I thought I would get a head-start by asking if anyone has come across this before?

#2 9 years ago

And obviously you checked the fuses...

#3 9 years ago

Yes, new fuses and just rechecked them....all fine.

I did notice that I'm getting a Row 4 short on the Yellow/White Wire displayed on the DMD Test mode.

Also see that I have 66 volts (MM might not be accurate) on "both" posts on various solenoids. Tried to active by jumping with ground wire to other post but a small arc occurs with nothing happening. Checked fuses again and they're fine. Hmmm

Also found somewhere that I should verify LED 105 fades to off when the coin door is opened. It doesn't appear that any of them go out once I open the coin door.

When I get home and have a bit more time, I guess I'll have to track down the Yellow/White wire and review the schematics?

#4 9 years ago

Check the fuses with one end lifted from the clip. If you haven't already, you should verify all their ratings as well.

If you ground the proper lug of a coil that has power applied (66 VDC), it WILL fire unless it's melted and seized up. The spark is normal. If you grounded the wrong side, the fuse is out.

#5 9 years ago
Quoted from earflaps:

Also see that I have 66 volts (MM might not be accurate) on "both" posts on various solenoids. Tried to active by jumping with ground wire to other post but a small arc occurs with nothing happening. Checked fuses again and they're fine. Hmmm

When you say post, do you mean the other post on the coil? You need to jumper to ground as follows.

You need to ground the switched side of the solenoid, not the supply side. The supply voltage will have the same color wire across multiple solenoids. The switched side will have a different color wire on each solenoid. Use a 1K resistor inline with your jumper when testing.

As Cody said unless every coil is locked up (unlikely) they should fire when you do the above.

And you are checking the fuses with a DMM? If you grounded the supply side of the coil I would suspect the fuse is now blown.

#6 9 years ago

I'll check the fuses again. I just replaced (serviced) the whole machine with new fuses, cleaned the coils and replaced the sleeves...amongst a hundred other things.

I never knew about the 1K resistor in-line...that's a good idea and I'll be sure to wire that into my jumper wire. I've been grounding it to the prop bar ground, is there a better place to ground it.

Just another point, in trying to determine the supply side with the MM, as mentioned above, I noticed both sides have equally 66 - 70 volts on both coil terminals. That had me thinking that there was a short somewhere as also indicated by the Row 4 shorted message in the Test Mode. Looking at the coil with the plastic flap and terminals down, the supply (red wire in this case) is on the right on all the coils in question. Does it matter which terminal side the supply wire is connected to on the coils with 2 terminals?

#7 9 years ago

Ground is switched on the solenoids rather than power, so when they are inactive you will read supply voltage on both lugs.

The Row 4 shorted error is a separate switch matrix problem.

If the coils have diodes then it does matter which side of the diode goes to the supply voltage. Although you could reverse the diode and the wires and that would be fine. So basically coils do not have polarity, but the orientation of the diode is important. Just fyi, since that is unlikely your issue.

The 1K resistor just ensures you're not shorting high voltage to ground if there is something else wrong in the circuit (shorted transistor for example).

#8 9 years ago

Solved the problem with the solenoids not firing. Almost embarrassed to say but I had the connector for J107 plugged into J109. It was missing the plug in the 3rd hole of the connector which would have helped to give it away. Also, my pictures were too blurry and I was unable to tell exactly where it went...guessed wrong. Good thing it didn't burn anything up.

Still had trouble with a couple of solenoids not firing at full capacity after plugging it into J107. Turned out to be one of the wires had come loose from the IDC connection. Once I pushed it down I was able to play a game...kinda.

Having some random problems. The main one is that the 3 bank targets don't light up. When you hit them they don't reset either. When the game goes through a fail check to clear itself, the eventually reset. Also the 4 bank doesn't light the "K" when you hit it. Checked the connections and they seem to be fine.

Also, the flashers don't seem to fire up in the self test. I'm going to bed and going to sleep on it.

#9 9 years ago
Quoted from earflaps:

Solved the problem with the solenoids not firing. Almost embarrassed to say but I had the connector for J107 plugged into J109. It was missing the plug in the 3rd hole of the connector which would have helped to give it away. Also, my pictures were too blurry and I was unable to tell exactly where it went...guessed wrong. Good thing it didn't burn anything up.
Still had trouble with a couple of solenoids not firing at full capacity after plugging it into J107. Turned out to be one of the wires had come loose from the IDC connection. Once I pushed it down I was able to play a game...kinda.
Having some random problems. The main one is that the 3 bank targets don't light up. When you hit them they don't reset either. When the game goes through a fail check to clear itself, the eventually reset. Also the 4 bank doesn't light the "K" when you hit it. Checked the connections and they seem to be fine.
Also, the flashers don't seem to fire up in the self test. I'm going to bed and going to sleep on it.

Coin door switch closed when testing the flashers?

#10 9 years ago

Yup, that was all it was...thanks bigd1979. I didn't realize the flashers were on the high voltage circuit...now I do.

Onto figuring out why the machine boots into an error message and figuring out what's wrong with those drop targets. Worst case scenario, I see Marco still has the 3 target replacements.

#11 9 years ago

I'll carry on with this post about another Flintstones issue I'm having. I've tracked down the rest of the random troubles I was having. There were some wonky things happening like multiple switches firing during the switch edge test. Once tracked down it was something as simple as a wire on a switch bent to the point it was shorting out with one of the other posts on the switch.

Anyway, now my last issuw...hopefully. I'm getting points when I have the ball in hand and I hit the flippers. I have no idea where to start with this one. Nothing is coming up as an error on boot any longer and everything appears to be normal other than the flipper giving points. Also noticed that on both flipper opto boards resistors are very hot to touch. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.

#12 9 years ago

Bang on the playfield and see if points are scored. If so then you've got a switch with too tight a gap. As far as which switch about all you can do is see if you can match up the phantom points to actual points when you hit a switch.

#13 9 years ago
Quoted from terryb:

Bang on the playfield and see if points are scored. If so then you've got a switch with too tight a gap. As far as which switch about all you can do is see if you can match up the phantom points to actual points when you hit a switch.

Thanks for the ideas terryb. I did try the banging trick earlier with inconsistent results. However, it did give me the idea to put it in Switch Edge mode and observe.

I ended up tracing it back to the 4 bank drop target opto board. It was randomly adding points whether I hit the playfield or not. I took it apart, inspected and reflowed the solder. I then sprayed it really well with windex and blew it off with the air and heat gun. Problem solved.

That was it...had a smile on my face while I played several games. Out of the blue I got a Slam Tilt error with a stuck switch. I unplugged the slam tilt switch but the error didn't go away. Guess it's back to the drawing board.

#14 9 years ago

Put the game in switch edge test and just let it sit there. If it phantoms, it will display the last switch closed/opened.

If you have other chores to do, turn the volume up high so you can hear the sound cue of the switch closing. Check on it every 5-10 minutes for an hour or so and see if any switches are phantoming closed or open (opto).

#15 9 years ago

Seems to have cured itself somewhat. I think it was the upper door switch. It doesn't seem to have any effect when pushed. I believe it shorted itself out causing the game to appear as if the door was open even though it wasn't. I'll switch it out with another game I have and see if it starts working properly.

Thanks for the tips, cody_chunn.

#16 9 years ago

I should have posted in here but thought I would try the Flintstone's Owner's Club first.

Been searching the forums with no luck for a small problem I'm having and wondered if anyone else came across it? When you engage the Bronto Crane, then shoot the left orbit, the ball carries on through to the DIG lanes. I believe the same thing is happening for the left Time option on Shoot for the Machine but not the best at starting that mode. The diverter does not engage but it appears the switch is working in the orbit lane. When I test both the switch and the diverter in test mode, they work fine.
I'm going to try changing out the switch with a new one after work but it doesn't appear to be the problem.

Just digging a little further, changed out with a new switch and tested again. It's registering points as you activate the switch when Bronto Crane mode or Time is activated but still won't activate the diverter. I guess I'll test Q78 and see what I get.

Just did the "quick and dirty" transistor test by grounding the tab to the ground strap. Looks like several (about 7) of the transistors are grounding out including Q78. I'm going to do a more thorough test later today but it's starting to look like to problem is on the CPU board. Strange that the only issue is the diverter not popping up on queue and the flashers not working with so many transistors grounding.

#17 9 years ago

Grounding tranny tabs doesn't test the tranny. It *substitutes* for the tranny. What it does test is continuity from the tranny to the connector, through the connector and down to the load, the load itself (coil or flasher) and supply voltage.

Start a game with the glass off and enable the Bronto Crane. Now drop the ball in there by hand and see what it does.

#18 9 years ago

Okay...never knew that about the grounding. I knew you could carefully ground the TP102 to the ground strap to see if a coil would fire but that's about it. Not sure why there is this so called "Quick and Dirty Transistor" test floating around the internet...that's some poor advice?

I was able to put my DMM on the transistor legs in question and getting similar voltages on all the transistors I checked. It's starting to appear to me that it might not be a transistor problem. I've got some Bridge Rectifiers on order as I should have some on hand anyway.

Rolling the ball slowly into the back of the orbit allows the ball to fall into the kicker coil and loads into the bronto as desired. Again, the left orbit switch is activating and giving points on the DMD but doesn't activate the rear ball diverter to stop it from rolling to the DIG lanes. The rear diverter also works in test mode. I even put a diode on the diverter coil thinking it was some dirty DC power or something...no change.

#19 9 years ago

Did you test the switch with your finger or the ball? If you roll the ball quickly does the switch ping in edge test?

#20 9 years ago

The switch works both ways...with the ball going fast, slow or manually triggering it. Really strange...I'm trying to figure out something from the schematics as we speak but I'm no Electrical Engineer.

I did notice that there's a bit of a buzz when the coil is triggered going over the right orbit...which indecently works as designed. What I mean by that is when I shoot the Time on the right orbit the ball diverts properly.

#21 9 years ago

I'm moving this topic to "Generic Tech". Consider this thread CLOSED.

2 months later
#22 8 years ago

Rather than starting a new topic, I think this one is still appropriate for what I'm looking for. I've seen YouTube videos where the High Score plays the Flintstones song and a little DMD video. I've tried everything I can think of but I don't get anything after the High Score. Tried setting attract mode as well but that didn't do it either...am I missing something?

#23 8 years ago

ROM version?

#24 8 years ago

ROM is LX4.

8 years later
#25 7 months ago

My flintstones does a random ball search after game is over. Never shows any switch or trough issues. Can’t imagine that being normal, any ideas?

1 week later
#26 6 months ago
Quoted from Dozen:

My flintstones does a random ball search after game is over. Never shows any switch or trough issues. Can’t imagine that being normal, any ideas?

It is very common for the ball trough opto switches to not be working properly.

All the balls are in the trough, but the game doesn't think they are.

Go into empty ball test in the test menu. See what is happening. The optos can fail, the connectors on the trough board can have broken connectors.

Beyond that, I'd be looking at EVERY switch in the game. Go into switch test and activate every one (by a ball instead of your finger when possible). This sounds extreme, but it's pretty common on Williams/Bally 'unexplained ball search' troubleshooting.

Let us know what you find.

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