(Topic ID: 291254)

Flight 2000 Problem After 2 Balls Get Locked

By DanMarino

1 year ago


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  • 25 posts
  • 4 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 year ago by DanMarino
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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#1 1 year ago

Our Flight 2000 developed a major problem today. Here is what happens.

1. Start a game. Ball #1 gets ejected from the outhole.
1. Get Ball#1 into the ball locker. First Stage Go. Next ball gets ejected from the outhole.
2. Get next ball into the ball locker. Second Stage Go. Next ball gets ejected from the outhole.
3. Outhole solenoid and the 5 bank drop target solenoid activates and the game thinks I drained a ball.
4. Outhole solenoid and the 5 bank drop target solenoid activates and the game thinks I drained a ball.
After a few times of doing this the game ends.

So what's going on here? I have no idea what is wrong or how to trouble shoot it.

We have checked the ball trough switches and they seem fine.

The self-test switch in the coin door seems like everything tests fine.

I would appreciate any guidance that any of you Flight 2000 experts could provide.

Thank you.

1 week later
#2 1 year ago

I would suspect the outhole saucer switch stuck closed. or a shorted diode

Did you try the switch test with NO BALLS in the game ?

#3 1 year ago

Yes, it says the right out hole switch is closed. The leaf blades are not touching. I tested the diode and it seemed fine. I even swapped the diode out with one from another leaf switch and the test still says the right out hole switch is closed.
I ordered a bunch of new diodes, so I can swap some in case that’s the problem.
Any other advice for troubleshooting is much appreciated!

#4 1 year ago

So switch #33 says closed with no balls in the machine ? ( should say "0" with no balls & all drops in up position )

with alligator clips I shorted mine and started a game. (trying to simulate what I thought is going on with yours)

3 balls in trough, sent ball 1 into shooter lane , I removed it & locked ball 1.

That sent ball 2 into shooter lane, I removed that and locked ball 2

Ball 3 went into shooter lane. playfield wasn't qualified so drop banks reset over and over but ball in play DID NOT advance until I launched the ball.

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#5 1 year ago

Chas10e, thanks for trying to replicate the situation. Now that I’m back in town, I can start doing more troubleshooting in the evenings after work.

#6 1 year ago

Were you able to check out the related switches suggested in the response to you in the Flight 2000 Club thread?

#7 1 year ago
Quoted from emsrph:

Were you able to check out the related switches suggested in the response to you in the Flight 2000 Club thread?

Not tonight. Just got home from a road trip. I’ll be checking out those switches and diodes for problems Tuesday evening! I’m looking forward to digging into it.

#8 1 year ago
Quoted from DanMarino:

4. Outhole solenoid and the 5 bank drop target solenoid activates and the game thinks I drained a ball.
After a few times of doing this the game ends.

What switches is this third ball hitting when the drop target solenoid fires or is it just sitting in the shooter lane?

You probably should also check the diodes on each of the five drop target switches to rule them out.

#9 1 year ago
Quoted from emsrph:

What switches is this third ball hitting when the drop target solenoid fires or is it just sitting in the shooter lane?
You probably should also check the diodes on each of the five drop target switches to rule them out.

Emsrph, tonight after work I'll take the glass off the machine. I'll make sure all the targets are up and none of the roll over switches get touched. Then I'll put the first ball in the launcher. Then when the out hole ejects the second ball, I'll put that up in the launcher as well. Then I'll document what happens. I'll bypass the left side spinner. In theory, only the roll over switch for the ball launcher will have been rolled over twice.

#10 1 year ago

Good experiment chas10e

DanMarino when you are observing what happens, pay attention for any phantom points scoring, other solenoids firing (slings/bumpers) or letters being made. This will help narrow down what row or column in the switch matrix where the problem is.

Repeat test, but after starting the game unplug J3 from the MPU (bottom right connector of MPU). This will remove the cabinet switches so we can hopefully rule them out.

#11 1 year ago

Awesome emsrph, I'll give it a try. I'm sure I'll have to do it several times to make sure I document what happens.
I'm a little confused and nervous about unplugging the J3 from the MPU with the power on. Hopefully it goes fine. haha.
I really appreciate your assistance.

#12 1 year ago
Quoted from DanMarino:

I'm a little confused and nervous about unplugging the J3 from the MPU with the power on. Hopefully it goes fine. haha.

Yep, I get that. Before powering the game on, make sure the connector is not too stuck.

Or alternatively, find the coin door connector on the door harness near the front of the game and unplug that instead after starting the game.

Oh, any upper level techs in the wings...don’t hesitate to grab the wheel if there are other tests or theories to put out.

#13 1 year ago

I found this on the pinwiki for bally/stern. I'm not smart enough to fully understand what it is saying, but I was wondering if this could have something to do with my switch 33 showing closed when it looks open?

https://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Bally/Stern#Switch_Matrix

"Also, the switch commonly referred to as "switch 33" on a Bally or Stern CPU board, and used to reset audits and bookkeeping, is not part of the switch matrix either. This switch receives a signal from the 6800 CPU chip, and when closed, sends the signal to ground. Starting with the first MPU-200 Stern game, Meteor, Stern added a second switch to the inside of the coin door to serve the purpose of remotely resetting audits and bookkeeping. The signal for this secondary switch is tied to the input line of switch 33, and leaves the CPU board via connection A4J3-5. Its return line is sent to ground via a daisy-chained lead to the self test switch."

#14 1 year ago
Quoted from DanMarino:

I found this on the pinwiki for bally/stern. I'm not smart enough to fully understand what it is saying, but I was wondering if this could have something to do with my switch 33 showing closed when it looks open?
https://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Bally/Stern#Switch_Matrix
"Also, the switch commonly referred to as "switch 33" on a Bally or Stern CPU board, and used to reset audits and bookkeeping, is not part of the switch matrix either. This switch receives a signal from the 6800 CPU chip, and when closed, sends the signal to ground. Starting with the first MPU-200 Stern game, Meteor, Stern added a second switch to the inside of the coin door to serve the purpose of remotely resetting audits and bookkeeping. The signal for this secondary switch is tied to the input line of switch 33, and leaves the CPU board via connection A4J3-5. Its return line is sent to ground via a daisy-chained lead to the self test switch."

Good info. Another reason to unplug the coin door after starting a game in your testing process.

If it’s not a wiring or component problem on the playfield, or a coin door problem, it’ll be a more involved MPU issue.

#15 1 year ago
Quoted from DanMarino:

I found this on the pinwiki for bally/stern. I'm not smart enough to fully understand what it is saying, but I was wondering if this could have something to do with my switch 33 showing closed when it looks open?

No, the button on the mpu board itself is designated S33, has nothing to do with switch 33 in the switch matrix.

#16 1 year ago

Thanks again. I'll give the troubleshooting a go tonight after work. I'll start with the switch text using the button inside the coin door. I'll remove the balls, and have the stand up targets all up.
I'll remove the J2 and J3 connectors and see if it shows 0 for the switch errors.
I'll also mess around with putting the 2 balls into the locker/launcher and then note what happens.

#17 1 year ago
Quoted from DanMarino:

Thanks again. I'll give the troubleshooting a go tonight after work. I'll start with the switch text using the button inside the coin door. I'll remove the balls, and have the stand up targets all up.
I'll remove the J2 and J3 connectors and see if it shows 0 for the switch errors.
I'll also mess around with putting the 2 balls into the locker/launcher and then note what happens.

Good plan. When you put the balls back in you’ll need to put J2 back on so the playfield switches are connected.

#18 1 year ago

1. I removed the J2 and J3 connectors from the MPU board and reconnected them.
2. I moved all of the drop targets up.
3. I removed the balls.
4. I did the switch test and got a 0.
5. I rolled a ball over all of the switches to make sure they registered and all was fine.
6. I started a game.
7. I put 1 ball in the locker. Another ball ejected.
8. I put a second ball in the locker. Another ball ejected.
9. I knocked down targets and switches and all seemed fine. So I turned the game off and restarted.
10. The game worked perfectly and I got my high score. Haha!

I guess reseating the J2 and J3 connectors fixed the problem.

Lesson learned. At least now I have a bunch of diodes to start replacing the old ones with.

Thank you to everyone who assisted, especially emsrph. I don't really understand why it is working now, but we will keep playing it and see if it malfunctions again.

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#19 1 year ago
Quoted from DanMarino:

1. I removed the J2 and J3 connectors from the MPU board and reconnected them.
2. I moved all of the drop targets up.
3. I removed the balls.
4. I did the switch test and got a 0.
5. I rolled a ball over all of the switches to make sure they registered and all was fine.
6. I started a game.
7. I put 1 ball in the locker. Another ball ejected.
8. I put a second ball in the locker. Another ball ejected.
9. I knocked down targets and switches and all seemed fine. So I turned the game off and restarted.
10. The game worked perfectly and I got my high score. Haha!
I guess reseating the J2 and J3 connectors fixed the problem.
Lesson learned. At least now I have a bunch of diodes to start replacing the old ones with.
Thank you to everyone who assisted, especially emsrph. I don't really understand why it is working now, but we will keep playing it and see if it malfunctions again.
[quoted image]

Glad it's working again. This might resurface and require re-pinning the connectors. That'll give you something to read about and prepare for in between getting new high scores!

#20 1 year ago

I'm back. The problem is back. The switch test using the coin door says that switch #33 is closed. That's the right out hole again.

I removed the J2 connector from the MPU board and got a flashing 0.

My understanding is that this tells me that the problem is under the playfield, is this correct?

#21 1 year ago
Quoted from DanMarino:

I'm back. The problem is back. The switch test using the coin door says that switch #33 is closed. That's the right out hole again.
I removed the J2 connector from the MPU board and got a flashing 0.
My understanding is that this tells me that the problem is under the playfield, is this correct?

That's my understanding. Time to start checking switch diodes, switch capacitors, switch gaps, switch wire shorts to other components.

#22 1 year ago
Quoted from emsrph:

That's my understanding. Time to start checking switch diodes, switch capacitors, switch gaps, switch wire shorts to other components.

Thanks. I'll report back after digging into it. I was checking a bunch of diodes last night and all seemed fine. I did find one capacitor that had been clipped on one leg. I think it was for the bonus multiplier / special target.

I recreated the fault a few times by starting a game and putting 2 balls into the locker/launcher. The third ball kicked out and the game started acting like balls were draining and then ended. I wasn't even activating other switches at that point, just letting the ball sit by the plunger.

I don't know if this is related or not, but sometimes the out hole doesn't successfully kick a ball out. It tries and the solenoid fires, but it's like the ball gets hung up or doesn't kick out enough.

#23 1 year ago

I think I solved it. I replaced the leaf switch for the right out hole and the switch tab that the black wires connected to had broken.

#24 1 year ago
Quoted from DanMarino:

I think I solved it. I replaced the leaf switch for the right out hole and the switch tab that the black wires connected to had broken.

Glad you solved it.

#25 1 year ago

I'm pretty sure this is the culprit. I got some practice replacing about 5 diodes though.

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