(Topic ID: 254890)

Flight 2000, no speech


By squad8

1 year ago



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  • Latest reply 89 days ago by Quench
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#20 1 year ago
Quoted from squad8:

I also noticed that the capacitor at c17 is cracked. I can not read what the value is on my schematic.

The speech board schematic in the Lightning manual is probably the clearest and the value of C17 looks like it's 0.27uF.

#25 1 year ago
Quoted from squad8:

I am having trouble finding a .21 uf capacitor for c17. I am also unsure what type of capacitor it is or what I can use.
Does anyone have a recommendation?

It's a multilayer ceramic capacitor. BTW it's 0.27uF, not 0.21uF.

https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/581-SA115E274MAR

Lightning_VSU100a.png

#27 1 year ago
Quoted from slochar:

Error on my schematic redraw!!

BTW if you re-upload that diagram can you do it with resize disabled first so we get your original image without Pinside squashing it?

Cheers!

Pinside_NoScaling.png

#29 1 year ago
Quoted from slochar:

I'll add that to my list of stuff to do in the future.

I usually do photoshop fun when I'm really stuck on the coding side of things so that might be a while, but I'll remember the resize thing when that happens.

Great!

On the diagram you uploaded above if you hover your mouse over it, you'll see it says (resized) at the bottom.

2 weeks later
#32 1 year ago
Quoted from squad8:

Test point 1 fluctuates from .06-.11 volts, T.P. is 5.19 volts, and T.P. 3 fluctuates from -2 to -10 volts.

I'm looking at the schematics and your voltages don't look right.
TP1 is supposed to be 5 volts (not zero volts)
"T.P." is which test point?

Have you determined why TP3 is fluctuating from -2 volts to -10 volts and not sitting steady on -10 volts?

slochar, there's another small typo on your schematic. You have TP3 listed as TP5

#34 1 year ago
Quoted from squad8:

U6 pin 10 always low.

Well that's the start signal to the speech processor and also the clock signal that passes data from the MPU board to the speech processor. You need to find out why there's no activity on it. Are you getting activity on the lamp strobe #2 signal at U6 pin 2 and 5? Infact what's happening on pins 1 thru 6 on U6 when the game should be playing speech?

#36 1 year ago
Quoted from squad8:

Pins 2, 3, 4, and 5 are always low.

You're not getting Lamp Strobe #2 activity from the MPU board to the speech board which controls communication to the speech board.

The source of the Lamp Strobe #2 signal is pin 39 of U11 on the MPU board.
It then comes out on MPU J1 pin 8 and then into the speech board at J3 pin 4. Then through the 20k resistor at R24 and onto pins 2 and 5 of U6.

Probe it with your logic probe from source to destination when the game should be playing speech.
Note: the Lamp Strobe #2 signal also drives the MPU board LED. So during power up when that LED comes on (flashes) you should see that Lamp Strobe #2 signal go high at the speech board.

#38 1 year ago
Quoted from squad8:

The only thing that I get is a very quick pulse on U11 pin 39 when I start a game. It never goes high.

That means it's pulsing high which is what it's supposed to do - sorry I didn't mean it should go high and stay high.

Do you get any activity on output pin 3 of the 555 timer at U2 when the Lamp Strobe #2 signal pulses at the start of a game?

#40 1 year ago
Quoted from squad8:

The logic probe shows both high and low, with a pulse, in all conditions.

So you're getting some clock activity.

When the game should be playing speech, are you getting any activity shown on your logic probe (by activity I mean the pulse LED flashing or the green and red LEDs flashing) on any pins of the EPROM at U9? i.e. is the speech processor trying to read speech data from the EPROM?

Have you got an oscilloscope?

#42 12 months ago
Quoted from squad8:

I probed every pin on U9, as I started games, and there was no change on the probe.

So speech isn't being processed - we can presume the issue isn't in the analog output chain after the speech processor.
What did the logic probe indicate on most of the EPROM pins? High or Low?

Quoted from squad8:

I am fairly sure that it should have speech when a game is started.

In PinMAME when you start a game it says "Prepare for mission".
In solenoid test mode, speech starts at number 29 and says "One", "Two", "Three", "Four", "Five", "Prepare", "Mission", "Stand" from what I can make out. While the speech is triggered at number 29, it actually happens over the course of solenoid tests 01 through 08. This speech happens regardless of the position of dip switch 17 on the MPU board.

What voltage are you measuring on pin 3 of the speech chip - my guesstimate is that it should be around "-2" volts.

When you power on, with your logic probe, what's the state of pins 2, 5, 7, 10, 12, 15 of U5?
When speech is being triggered, does the logic probe indicate any change on any of these pins?
U5 is used to latch the speech command from the MPU board to the speech processor.

Do the same on U4 (it's the same type of chip as U5) it controls the pitch of speech and also the volume of the analog output.

What voltage do you measure on pin 40 of U8 which is the "/BUSY" signal?
What does the logic probe on pins 9, 10 and 11 of U6 indicate?

Can you also tell us which MPU board the game has? (original Stern or aftermarket)

#44 12 months ago
Quoted from squad8:

I have 2.11 volts on U8 pin 3.

Is that positive or negative 2.11 volts? I expected it to be negative 2 volts. If it read positive, what voltage do you measure on the output of the 555 timer (pin 3 of U2)?
What voltage do you read on both sides of resistor R15?

Quoted from squad8:

U8 pin 40 reads 0.0 volts.

This is a concern. U8 pin 40 is the /BUSY output pin of the speech processor which is active low and at zero volts it is logic "low" which is saying it's always busy. It obviously isn't since it's not reading speech data from the ROM to process speech.

This signal ultimately goes back to the MPU board via pin 10 of U6. Let's fake it so it's not telling the MPU board it's busy. Carefully connect a jumper wire to +5V (TP2) on the speech board and connect the other end of the wire to pin 9 of U6. When you start a game or go to solenoid test mode does the speech board attempt to talk?

Quoted from squad8:

U5 pins 2, 5, 7, 10, 12, & 15 all start low & go high on power up. Checking the pins of U4, & U5 through solenoid/sound test they are low through the whole test.

U4 pins 2, 7, 10, 12, & 15 also start low & go high on power up, but pin 5 is always high.

When you say they "start low & go high on power up", do you mean at the moment you flick the power switch or some moments after you've powered on?

When you replaced U6, did you install a socket or solder the new chip in directly? If you socketed it, can you pull U6 out and redo these logic probe tests ^^^
Just trying to get an idea if U4 and U5 are working.

Quoted from squad8:

U6 pins 9, & 10 are high, & pin 10 is low with a very rapid pulse.

Typo here, pin 10 is listed twice - BTW, sorry I meant pins 8, 9 and 10 of U6, not 9, 10 and 11.

#47 12 months ago
Quoted from squad8:

the bottom of R15 is +5.17 volts

The bottom of resistor R15 (which is J1/J2 connector side) goes to "-10V" (i.e. minus 10 volts). If you're reading +5 volts on it there's a problem..
Please recheck this reading on that resistor and measure the -10V supply at TP3 again.

Also measure the voltage across the CR3 10V zener diode. Red meter lead on the banded side, black meter lead on the non-banded side.
You should also check that the two 1N4004 diodes at CR1 and CR2 are good.

#48 12 months ago

Actually, can you post clear high res pictures front and back of the board?

I've been using the schematic above and the area we are measuring right now has missing components on your board so I need to reconstruct your board schematics in that area.
The Flight 2K schematic is the same as the one above.

#50 11 months ago

Sorry for the delay.

Ok, I played a little with this in emulation to understand it better and presume you know how to read schematics (can you?). This is a bit of an overview but you should see the outputs of the U4 and U5 chips change accordingly as words are (supposed to be) spoken during solenoid test mode. Importantly when the first word begins, all outputs of U4 and U5 should change from high to low, and the /BUSY signal from the U8 Speech processor should go low (zero volts or lower) during the time words should be spoken.

At power up, the Lamp Strobe #2 signal pulses high which latches all outputs of both 4174 chips at U4 and U5 "high".
On U5 this selects speech command "3F" hex which is the last spoken word available by the speech processor at U8. Presume this vocal word is just something silent/null.
On U4, this sets the U2 555 clock generator for the speech processor to about 30.5kHz (highest voice pitch).
It also sets the boards pre-amp output to volume 7 of 7 (this is reverse order so is quietest level - not necessarily silent).

Unfortunately there's no datasheet available for the S14001A speech processor so it makes things a bit more challenging.. It appears the "active low" /BUSY line can go to "-10" volts which isn't strictly logic level - hard to say without measuring a board. i.e. when it's low which could be between zero volts and -10 volts, it's busy processing speech. When it's near 5 volts (logic high) it's ready to accept a speech command.

At this point the /BUSY line from the U8 speech processor should be near 5 volts. This tells the MPU board via the Lamp Interrupt signal it's not busy and it's ready to accept a speech command.

Fast forward to solenoid test mode when it reaches solenoid #29.

After test "29", the test goes to "01" activating solenoid #01 but also the speech board says the word "One". To initiate this the following happens:

(1) Lamp Strobe #2 signal pulses high and latches all outputs of the 4174 chip at U4 chip "low". This sets the U2 555 clock generator for the speech processor to about 20.0kHz (lowest voice pitch), and the pre-amp output to volume 7 of 7 (loudest level).

(2) Lamp Strobe #2 signal pulses high again and latches all outputs of the 4174 chip at U5 chip "low". The U5 outputs selects speech command "00" hex which gets the speech processor at U8 ready to say the first word in its vocabulary sitting in the ROM which is "One". During this time, the speech processor makes the /BUSY line active by pulling it to zero volts or lower and is gated to the MPU board telling the CPU not to send any speech commands yet. The Lamp Strobe #2 signal now goes low and the speech processor now starts saying the word "One" by actively reading encoded voice data for "One" from the speech ROM.

(3) The speech processor finishes saying the word, and releases the /BUSY line so the MPU board can send the next speech command during solenoid test mode.

The sequence of commands during solenoid test mode are:
#01 U5:"00" "One" U4:"0-0" 20.0kHz, loudest volume.
#02 U5:"01" "Two" U4:"1-0" 21.5kHz, loudest volume.
#03 U5:"02" "Three" U4:"2-0" 23.0kHz, loudest volume.
#04 U5:"03" "Four" U4:"3-0" 24.5kHz, loudest volume.
#05 U5:"04" "Five" U4:"2-1" 23.0kHz, 2nd loudest volume.
#06 U5:"05" "Prepare" U4:"2-2" 23.0kHz, 3rd loudest volume.
#07 U5:"06" "Mission" U4:"2-4" 23.0kHz, medium volume.
#08 U5:"07" "Stand" U4:"2-7" 23.0kHz, quietest volume.

1 week later
#52 11 months ago

Argh, I was working on someones speech board today and forgot to take measurements on that /BUSY signal.

Quoted from squad8:

What I found is the game can sit in attract mode with a stable 4.95 volts on U8 pin 40, but when you go into solenoid/sound test it goes to 0.0 volts, and stays there until the game is rebooted.

The game thinks the speech board is busy so never sends commands to say other words.

The busy signal on U8 pin 40 ends up going through U6 then to the MPU board. Can you probe the destination of this signal on the MPU board which is pin 18 of U11 ? probe it through power up, attract mode and solenoid test mode after solenoid #29 when it should start speak the second time solenoids #1 - #8 are tested.

Quoted from squad8:

During test U4, and U5, pins 2, 5, 7, 10, 12, and 15 are constantly low.

And there's no pulsing activity on any pins of the speech ROM at U9 after solenoid test #29?

#54 11 months ago
Quoted from squad8:

On the mpu U11 pin 40

Erm, needed to know what's happening on MPU U11 pin 18, not pin 40

Quoted from squad8:

I am not getting any pulsing on any pins of U9, during test.

It's pointing to a faulty speech processor chip. It's being told to say a word in solenoid test mode and not reading the speech data out of the ROM to actually say it.

When you power up do you get any nasty screeching noises from the speaker? If yes, does the screeching change with or without the speech board connected?

#56 11 months ago
Quoted from squad8:

I finally got some time to get back on this. What I found is the game can sit in attract mode with a stable 4.95 volts on U8 pin 40, but when you go into solenoid/sound test it goes to 0.0 volts, and stays there until the game is rebooted.

The above isn't consistent with the below in terms of what the MPU board should be seeing of the gated /BUSY signal. According to the above, MPU U11 pin 18 should be low but showing pulsing. Can you recheck it?

Quoted from squad8:

On the mpu U11 pin 18, during power up it starts low then goes high for a few seconds, and goes back low. It remains low in attract mode, and through solenoid test.

.

Quoted from squad8:

I am not getting any pulsing on any pins of U9, during test.

Not even any change from low to high or high to low on any of the U9 speech ROM pins *after* solenoid test #29

Remove and reinstall the speech processor a couple of times to get it to swipe in the IC socket just in case there's some poor connection there.

If it makes no difference, power off, pull out the speech processor at U8 and leave it out, power on.
Use a small screwdriver to touch pin 11 in the U8 socket - make sure your hand is touching the metal part of the screw driver. Does it produce any hum from the speaker? If it doesn't, find resistor R45 (next to the big blue capacitor) and very briefly place a short circuit across it. Do you get any click/pop from the speaker? We are just checking if the amplifier circuit on the speech board is doing anything.

If the amplifier produces an audible effect, then it might be time to invest in a new speech processor chip.

http://www.gameroomrepair.com/ICparts/ICparts.htm#S14001

BTW, do you have any way of dumping the U9 speech EPROM to verify it's good?

#58 11 months ago

Can you post clear pictures of your SB300 sound board front and back? Wondering if it has the speech board audio input support.

#60 11 months ago

That red wire on the back of the SB300 board is necessary for feeding audio from the speech board into the sound board mixer. I just wanted to check that your board had this connection because some SB300 sound boards from other speechless games don't.

If you did the amplifier tests in attract mode you may have not gotten any audible effects - if you want, try them again in solenoid test mode after the test has recycled back to solenoid #01 and maximum volume on the speech board has been selected.

The fact that the speech processor at U8 is making no attempt to read encoded speech data from the speech ROM points to a faulty speech processor.

#62 11 months ago
Quoted from squad8:

I can order the speech processor if you think that is what I need.

What we've been trying to do is determine if everything around the speech processor is working. It appears the speech chip is being given commands to speak but is just sitting there muted.
It would be nice to confirm the pre-amps after the speech chip are working. Short circuiting resistor R45 on the speech board after solenoid test #29 should have produced some sort of audible effect on the speaker. What voltage do you measure at pin 5 of the U7 pre-amp input on the speech board? It should be half way between +5 and -10 volts (i.e. around -2.5 volts). Pin 3 should be the same voltage and probably pins 1, pin 2 and pin 7 should be thereabouts.

The only other things I would do is confirm you're actually getting -10 volts at pin 21 on the speech chip itself and that you have pulsing clock activity at input pin 3 of the speech chip.

The fact the speech processor isn't doing anything to look up in the ROMs how to speak leads it to being suspect.

I know those chips are super rare and expensive. It's up to you at this point whether you buy another chip, send the board off for repair or see if any buddy's have a classic Stern with speech willing to let you swap the speech chip.

#64 11 months ago
Quoted from squad8:

U7-
pin 5, -2.1
pin 7, -2.4

Close enough.

Quoted from squad8:

U7- pin 1, +4.4
pin 2, -8.7
pin 3, -1.6

Are/were the state of U4 pins 10, 12 and 15 "high" when you you took/take these measurements? If yes, the pre-amp is muted.
Do these 3 voltages on U7 change after solenoid test #29 when the three U4 outputs on pins 10, 12 and 15 go low? (pre-amp set to max gain)

#66 11 months ago
Quoted from squad8:

When U4 pins 10, 12, and 15 go low, U7 pin 1 remains at +4.4 volts, pin 2 dropped from -8.7 to -8.0 volts, and pin 3 remained at -1.6 volts.

Those pre-amp voltages don't look right, maybe it's faulty.

Find resistor R22. Measure the voltage at the leg where "R22" is printed. It should measure the same as pin 3 of the U7 pre-amp.
Find resistor R2. With the machine on, put a short circuit across that resistor. Do you hear any click/pop when you short the resistor? If you can keep the short in place what do you measure at pin 1 of U7?

#68 11 months ago
Quoted from squad8:

R22 is, -1.8 volts, and U7 pin 3 is, -1.6 volts.

Ideally those voltages should be the same but you're getting a 0.2 volt difference. Without a board I don't know if that's normally within tolerance.
While that voltage seems small, it's being amplified by the pre-amp which has a gain of 24X (determined by resistor R2 divided by R22 (240k / 10k = 24)). That small voltage difference is being amplified and is poorly biasing the output of the pre-amp.

Resistors R19 and R20 should be exactly the same resistance (schems say 270k ohms) and resistors R18 and R21 should be exactly the same at 240k ohms.
The resistance ratio of R18 to R19 sets the voltage on U7 pin 3 (+ input) and the resistance ratio of R21 to R20 sets the reference voltage you measured at R22 for the - input to the pre-amp.
Anyway I'm getting sidetracked here.

By shorting R2, all you did was change the gain on that pre-amp from 24X to 1X. It shouldn't have damaged anything.

Quoted from squad8:

Now I have a loud hum even in attract, but if I unplug the speech board it goes away.

Ughh, measure the -10 volt rail at TP3 on the speech board.

#71 11 months ago
Quoted from squad8:

I am not sure what is going on, but now the loud hum went away. I checked U7 pin 1 again, and now it is, -1.93 volts with R2 shorted, and back to, +4.4 volts without the short.

Ok.
I would still measure the resistance on resistors R19, R20 which should both be exactly 270k ohms, and R18, R21 which should be exactly the same at 240k ohms. If you get any slight variances then I'd replace with 1% tolerance resistors.

Anyway, at this point you need to decide what you're going to do about the speech chip.

#74 11 months ago
Quoted from squad8:

I installed the new speech chip, but still no speech.

Are you seeing any activity on the speech ROM pins when it's supposed to be speaking, i.e. after solenoid test #29?

#76 11 months ago
Quoted from squad8:

What pins should I be checking, or should I be checking all of them?

We're looking for any sign of life. Most of the ROM pins should have activity when the board is speaking. Probe pins 7 thru 11 and pin 18 which is a couple of address and data lines.

#78 11 months ago

Well the speech chip is doing something now - you're getting activity on the ROM which you weren't before meaning the speech chip is trying to read speech data from the ROM.

You did plug in the smaller 5 pin connector onto the speech board that passes audio to the SB300 sound board?

Are you getting any noise on power up now that you weren't before?

What's happening on the /BUSY signal at pin 9 of U6 before you start solenoid test mode, then in solenoid test mode between #29 and #08 then after #11?

#80 11 months ago
Quoted from squad8:

It starts high then pulses low between #29 and #8 and then goes back high after #11.

Well the speech chip looks like it's doing exactly what it should now..

The question is whether it's outputting any analog audio signal and whether the pre-amps are still working. Did we make a booboo last week and damage the pre-amp?
Really need an oscilloscope to see what's going on at this point. Are you able to access one from a friend?

Otherwise put your multi-meter on very low AC voltage setting. In solenoid test between #29 and #11 does the meter indicate any changes in voltage on pin 7 of U7 (first filter pre-amp output), then do the same on pin 3 of U1 (output of the volume attenuator) and finally pin 1 of U7 (output of final pre-amp going to the SB-300 sound board).

#82 11 months ago
Quoted from squad8:

The voltages were not stable, but they did fluctuate more between #29 and #11. It seemed like there was less of a change on pin 3 of U1, than on pins 1 and 7 of U7. I had a spare chip for U1 so I changed it, but still no speech.

What kind of voltages were you seeing? - they might be quite low so can be hard to measure with a multi-meter. Without seeing them on a scope, I can only presume that since you're getting voltage changes then the speech audio is there.

Pin 3 of U1 should have measured about the same as pin 7 of U7 during solenoid tests #01 - #04

Find resistor R24 on the SB300 sound board. Measure the AC voltage on the leg opposite where "R24" is printed. It should be about the same as U7 pin 1 voltage changes during solenoid test #29 through #11.
The audio output of the speech board (via the 5 pin cable) comes to this R24 resistor which then gets mixed with the SB300 sounds and onto the output amplifier.

Find resistor R1 on the speech board and measure the AC voltages on both legs during solenoid test #29 through #11.

#84 11 months ago
Quoted from squad8:

R24 on the SB300 is .043, and then .187 vac between #29, and #8.

What kind of AC voltages do you read here when the SB300 is playing back sound effects in game mode?

BTW what happens if you turn the volume all the way up - do you hear any low level speech during solenoid test mode?

#86 11 months ago
Quoted from squad8:

I don't hear any speech

You 100% sure the speech EPROM is good and not blank?

Quoted from squad8:

I have .058 to .195 vac.

You're measuring about the same AC audio voltages at the SB300 mixer for speech and SB300 sounds.

Quoted from squad8:

.
U1 pin 3 is .059, and then .139 vac between #29, and #8.
U7 pin 1 is .056, and then .179 vac between #29, and #8.

Looking at the speech board schematics, the output of the attenuator (U1 pin 3) goes into the final pre-amp at U7A. This pre-amp is wired for a gain of 24X and it doesn't look like you're getting anywhere near this gain.

I hate shotgunning but without an oscilloscope there's not much more I can do to diagnose further. Having said this, all you're left with is a faulty pre-amp (U7), faulty attenuator (U1) or faulty speech chip (output not working).

The U7 pre-amp is known as an op-amp and replacement part numbers are LM1458 or MC1458 - they're cheap.
U1 is a 4051 CMOS analog multiplexer chip - should also be cheap.
G-P-E has these chips.
Have you changed the resistors I mentioned in post #71 to higher precision (1%) parts?

Change U7 first and see what happens.

3 months later
#91 7 months ago
Quoted from pinball_ric:

I want to make sure it's not possible something on the board caused the chip to go bad.

About all you can do is measure the power supply voltages on the speech board before plugging in the new speech chip.
Use TP1 as your ground connection:
TP2 should measure +5VDC
TP3 should measure -10VDC (that's minus ten volts)

4 months later
#113 89 days ago
Quoted from tyking:

I had a note that MPUJ4-11 should go to VSU J3-5. But, on my pin it looks like VSU J3-5 is going to MPU J4-9. I moved the wire from J4-9 to J4-11, and “one, two, three” etc. !!!

Quoted from tyking:

I wanted to go into the schematic to confirm the MPU J4-11 pin function, but am seeing “NU”. Is that a mistake in the schematic?

Sterns wiring diagrams are just generic - they didn't update them per game and forgot to add that speech signal function :-/
The MPU board schematic even has two connections for J4-11 and one of them is wrong.
J4 pin 11 on the top left of the MPU board schematic should be J4-13, not J4-11

J4 pin 11 on the bottom right of the MPU board schematic is correct and where the speech busy signal goes.

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