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(Topic ID: 254890)

Flight 2000, no speech


By squad8

1 year ago



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  • 113 posts
  • 13 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 29 days ago by Quench
  • Topic is favorited by 8 Pinsiders

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There are 113 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 3.
#1 1 year ago

I am working on a Flight 2000 project, and I have sound but no speech. I have changed the electrolytic capacitors, and switch 17 is in the on position. Test point 1 fluctuates from .06-.11 volts, T.P. is 5.19 volts, and T.P. 3 fluctuates from -2 to -10 volts.
Thanks in advance for any help.

#2 1 year ago

Is the sound board original to the game? Look at the back side and verify it has the long jumper wire for speech.

#3 1 year ago

this trace to mix speech in with the SB300 sounds is present on later boards. If the board is original to F2K it should have the trace, but worth checking for trace or the wire.

The lamp interrupt (aka speech busy) signal that comes in MPU j4 should also change state when the speech. I think it normally sits low when no speech happens and goes high when speech is playing.

#4 1 year ago
Quoted from dothedoo:

Is the sound board original to the game? Look at the back side and verify it has the long jumper wire for speech.

The SB-300 sound board has the jumper on the back of the board.

#5 1 year ago

Does "no speech" indicate in-game? IE., did you try solenoid-test, which should include some speech call-outs at the end.

Alas, the TSI- S14001A speech chip can fail, and is very hard to source these days. If you are lucky, it may be just a bad-solder on a connector, or one of the easily found drive chips.

#6 1 year ago
Quoted from Dr_Dude:

Does "no speech" indicate in-game? IE., did you try solenoid-test, which should include some speech call-outs at the end.
Alas, the TSI- S14001A speech chip can fail, and is very hard to source these days. If you are lucky, it may be just a bad-solder on a connector, or one of the easily found drive chips.

There is no speech in test or game play. As far as bad solder goes I have reflowed the connector, and looked the board over.

#7 1 year ago

Before you go nuts trying to get the speech chip, burn a new eprom for the speech board. I had 3-4 boards I bought as dead that it turned out everything was fine except for the 2716 eprom on them. You can double up the 2716 image to burn onto a much more commonly available 2732.

#8 1 year ago
Quoted from slochar:

Before you go nuts trying to get the speech chip, burn a new eprom for the speech board. I had 3-4 boards I bought as dead that it turned out everything was fine except for the 2716 eprom on them. You can double up the 2716 image to burn onto a much more commonly available 2732.

I will get a eprom burned, to see if that works.

Thanks to all that responded.

#9 1 year ago
Quoted from barakandl:

The lamp interrupt (aka speech busy) signal that comes in MPU j4 should also change state when the speech. I think it normally sits low when no speech happens and goes high when speech is playing.

I probed j4 pin 11 on the mpu, and it stays low in game play, and solenoid test.

Quoted from slochar:

Before you go nuts trying to get the speech chip, burn a new eprom for the speech board. I had 3-4 boards I bought as dead that it turned out everything was fine except for the 2716 eprom on them. You can double up the 2716 image to burn onto a much more commonly available 2732.

I got a eprom for the speech board, and still have no speech.

#10 1 year ago
Quoted from squad8:

I probed j4 pin 11 on the mpu, and it stays low in game play, and solenoid test.

I got a eprom for the speech board, and still have no speech.

Do you get silence when speech should be playing? Like when you begin the game there should be (speech) or silence and the lamp int should go high during that time.

I don't think there is any speech in solenoid test mode but I am not 100% sure on that.

#11 1 year ago
Quoted from barakandl:

Do you get silence when speech should be playing? Like when you begin the game there should be (speech) or silence and the lamp int should go high during that time.
I don't think there is any speech in solenoid test mode but I am not 100% sure on that.

I will have check better for silence when a game is started, but the lamp int stayed low at that time. I will report back when I check more thoroughly.
Thanks

#12 1 year ago
Quoted from barakandl:

I don't think there is any speech in solenoid test mode but I am not 100% sure on that.

There is speech during the test mode.

#13 1 year ago

I ran solenoid test and there is no silence, but it seems like the sounds are duplicated through test. It is hard to say for sure, but it does appear to have silence during game start when there should be speech. I also double checked the lamp int, and it is always low in test, and game start.
One thing that I forget to mention is that I put new ribbon cables on the sound board.

#14 1 year ago
Quoted from squad8:

I ran solenoid test and there is no silence, but it seems like the sounds are duplicated through test. It is hard to say for sure, but it does appear to have silence during game start when there should be speech. I also double checked the lamp int, and it is always low in test, and game start.
One thing that I forget to mention is that I put new ribbon cables on the sound board.

If lamp int never goes high the speech processor is probably not working because its bad or some other kind of problem like at U6, U5, U4, U3, U2, or input connectors. You can probably work through some of these circuits like U5 and U4 Q pins should be pulsing when speech should be playing. U6 P9 should be low when speech is playing, U6 P10 should be high or pulsing when speech is playing. U5 P2 should be pulsing when speech is playing.

I would try a new speech processor chip but saddly they are pretty hard to come by. Another working speech card to compare to and borrow the working processor would help.

#15 1 year ago

Going off of memory from a few years back when I had a F2K...one of the fuses (I think the one for the GI) also controls the speech or sound or both...I can’t remember for sure. Just a thought in case you haven’t checked the fuses???

1 week later
#16 1 year ago
Quoted from wrb1977:

Going off of memory from a few years back when I had a F2K...one of the fuses (I think the one for the GI) also controls the speech or sound or both...I can’t remember for sure. Just a thought in case you haven’t checked the fuses???

The fuses are all good.

Quoted from barakandl:

If lamp int never goes high the speech processor is probably not working because its bad or some other kind of problem like at U6, U5, U4, U3, U2, or input connectors. You can probably work through some of these circuits like U5 and U4 Q pins should be pulsing when speech should be playing. U6 P9 should be low when speech is playing, U6 P10 should be high or pulsing when speech is playing. U5 P2 should be pulsing when speech is playing.
I would try a new speech processor chip but saddly they are pretty hard to come by. Another working speech card to compare to and borrow the working processor would help.

The results of your recommendation are:
U6 pin 9 high and low light always on and always pulsing.
U6 pin 10 always low.
U5 pin 2 always high.
U5 puns 2, 5, 7, 10, 12, and 15 always high.
U4 pin 2 high, pins 5, 7, 10, 12, and 15 always low.

#17 1 year ago

make sure lamp strobe 1 is reaching speech board U6 Pin 8. THere is a 20k series resistor on speech board. P8 should be pulsing i think at or around 120hz. If U6 P8 and P9 both pulse but P10 is always low U6 may be bad.

I am not 100% sure what to expect from the speech CPU and i don't have one on hand right now to check, but i'd expect the /BUSY (u6 p9) to only be low when the processor is playing speech and sit high when not doing speech, but maybe it pulses and then stays low when speech plays.

If the Q pins on U5 and U4 never pulse then I'd think the clock pin is never pulsing which is also done by U6 with lamp strobe 2 and PD2 / PD3 input.

Double check the input connectors, Lamp strobes and PA and PD inputs, otherwise U6 might be a good shot at being the problem. You can get the datasheet and work through the truth table for U6.

2 weeks later
#18 11 months ago

I just fixed the speech in my flight 2000. The speech went out. Next I noticed 1/2 of the gi bulbs in the back box were out. 3 days later all gi bulbs in the backbox were out. Then I read speech and gi volts are linked. gi bulbs on playfield and all fuses are good. I looked at the wire that supply gi volts in the backbox. red and orange. i looked at the connector in the backbox. I looked under the playfield to the rectifier board which supplies gi volts to the backbox at the red and orange wires. the connector was burned on those 2 pins. I replaced just those 2 molex pins. Now my machine plays better than new.

3 weeks later
#19 10 months ago

I haven't had time to continue with the speech problem, and need to get back on it. I am going to order some of the ic's for it, but I also noticed that the capacitor at c17 is cracked. I can not read what the value is on my schematic. Can someone let me know the value.
Thanks to all that helped this far.

#20 10 months ago
Quoted from squad8:

I also noticed that the capacitor at c17 is cracked. I can not read what the value is on my schematic.

The speech board schematic in the Lightning manual is probably the clearest and the value of C17 looks like it's 0.27uF.

#21 10 months ago
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#22 10 months ago
Quoted from slochar:

[quoted image]

saving this one to the PC.

As someone that used to work in architectural / engineering printing and document management, I appreciate such a beautiful scan! It almost looks like a digital recreation.

#23 10 months ago
Quoted from barakandl:

saving this one to the PC.
As someone that used to work in architectural / engineering printing and document management, I appreciate such a beautiful scan! It almost looks like a digital recreation.

That's one of my early "trace the best scan I can get" photoshop learning tools.

Obviously before I learned you can hold down shift and get a straight line! That tidbit of information helped out the subsequent scans/cleanups immensely.

If only illustrator used all the same exact drawing tools I'd be an illustrator expert now!

#24 10 months ago

I am having trouble finding a .21 uf capacitor for c17. I am also unsure what type of capacitor it is or what I can use.
Does anyone have a recommendation?

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#25 10 months ago
Quoted from squad8:

I am having trouble finding a .21 uf capacitor for c17. I am also unsure what type of capacitor it is or what I can use.
Does anyone have a recommendation?

It's a multilayer ceramic capacitor. BTW it's 0.27uF, not 0.21uF.

https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/581-SA115E274MAR

Lightning_VSU100a.png

#26 10 months ago
Quoted from Quench:

It's a multilayer ceramic capacitor. BTW it's 0.27uF, not 0.21uF.
https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/581-SA115E274MAR
[quoted image]

Error on my schematic redraw!!

Thanks.... I should redraw that one anyway since it's sort of sloppy (especially the way I made the rounded boxes.... sloppy!!)

#27 10 months ago
Quoted from slochar:

Error on my schematic redraw!!

BTW if you re-upload that diagram can you do it with resize disabled first so we get your original image without Pinside squashing it?

Cheers!

Pinside_NoScaling.png

#28 10 months ago

I'll add that to my list of stuff to do in the future.

I usually do photoshop fun when I'm really stuck on the coding side of things so that might be a while, but I'll remember the resize thing when that happens.

#29 10 months ago
Quoted from slochar:

I'll add that to my list of stuff to do in the future.

I usually do photoshop fun when I'm really stuck on the coding side of things so that might be a while, but I'll remember the resize thing when that happens.

Great!

On the diagram you uploaded above if you hover your mouse over it, you'll see it says (resized) at the bottom.

#30 10 months ago

The parts are on order, I will report back with the outcome.
Thanks to all

2 weeks later
#31 10 months ago

I replaced C17, U1, U2, U3, and U6, still have no voice. I have been avoiding trying to find a S14001A for U8. I guess it is time to try that unless someone has any other suggestions.

#32 10 months ago
Quoted from squad8:

Test point 1 fluctuates from .06-.11 volts, T.P. is 5.19 volts, and T.P. 3 fluctuates from -2 to -10 volts.

I'm looking at the schematics and your voltages don't look right.
TP1 is supposed to be 5 volts (not zero volts)
"T.P." is which test point?

Have you determined why TP3 is fluctuating from -2 volts to -10 volts and not sitting steady on -10 volts?

slochar, there's another small typo on your schematic. You have TP3 listed as TP5

#33 10 months ago

It looks like a typo for TP1 and TP2 as well. TP1 is marked as ground on the board.
I am not sure why I originally had the fluctuation on TP3, but now it is -10. TP2 is 5.20.

#34 10 months ago
Quoted from squad8:

U6 pin 10 always low.

Well that's the start signal to the speech processor and also the clock signal that passes data from the MPU board to the speech processor. You need to find out why there's no activity on it. Are you getting activity on the lamp strobe #2 signal at U6 pin 2 and 5? Infact what's happening on pins 1 thru 6 on U6 when the game should be playing speech?

#35 10 months ago

I ran the solenoid/sound test and U6 pins 1-6 never change. Pins 1 and 6 read both low, and high with a pulse. Pins 2, 3, 4, and 5 are always low.
Also I have a Twobits mpu that I tried, and still had no speech.

#36 10 months ago
Quoted from squad8:

Pins 2, 3, 4, and 5 are always low.

You're not getting Lamp Strobe #2 activity from the MPU board to the speech board which controls communication to the speech board.

The source of the Lamp Strobe #2 signal is pin 39 of U11 on the MPU board.
It then comes out on MPU J1 pin 8 and then into the speech board at J3 pin 4. Then through the 20k resistor at R24 and onto pins 2 and 5 of U6.

Probe it with your logic probe from source to destination when the game should be playing speech.
Note: the Lamp Strobe #2 signal also drives the MPU board LED. So during power up when that LED comes on (flashes) you should see that Lamp Strobe #2 signal go high at the speech board.

#37 10 months ago

The source of the Lamp Strobe #2 signal is pin 39 of U11 on the MPU board.
It then comes out on MPU J1 pin 8 and then into the speech board at J3 pin 4. Then through the 20k resistor at R24 and onto pins 2 and 5 of U6.

The only thing that I get is a very quick pulse on U11 pin 39 when I start a game. It never goes high.

Note: the Lamp Strobe #2 signal also drives the MPU board LED. So during power up when that LED comes on (flashes) you should see that Lamp Strobe #2 signal go high at the speech board.

It does go high at the speech board with the LED flashes on power up.

#38 10 months ago
Quoted from squad8:

The only thing that I get is a very quick pulse on U11 pin 39 when I start a game. It never goes high.

That means it's pulsing high which is what it's supposed to do - sorry I didn't mean it should go high and stay high.

Do you get any activity on output pin 3 of the 555 timer at U2 when the Lamp Strobe #2 signal pulses at the start of a game?

#39 10 months ago

The logic probe shows both high and low, with a pulse, in all conditions. ( power up, game over, game start, and game play)

#40 10 months ago
Quoted from squad8:

The logic probe shows both high and low, with a pulse, in all conditions.

So you're getting some clock activity.

When the game should be playing speech, are you getting any activity shown on your logic probe (by activity I mean the pulse LED flashing or the green and red LEDs flashing) on any pins of the EPROM at U9? i.e. is the speech processor trying to read speech data from the EPROM?

Have you got an oscilloscope?

#41 10 months ago

I don’t have a oscilloscope.

I probed every pin on U9, as I started games, and there was no change on the probe. I am fairly sure that it should have speech when a game is started. Someone posted that there should be speech during solenoid/sound test as well, but there is either a solenoid or sound through the whole test with nothing missing.

#42 10 months ago
Quoted from squad8:

I probed every pin on U9, as I started games, and there was no change on the probe.

So speech isn't being processed - we can presume the issue isn't in the analog output chain after the speech processor.
What did the logic probe indicate on most of the EPROM pins? High or Low?

Quoted from squad8:

I am fairly sure that it should have speech when a game is started.

In PinMAME when you start a game it says "Prepare for mission".
In solenoid test mode, speech starts at number 29 and says "One", "Two", "Three", "Four", "Five", "Prepare", "Mission", "Stand" from what I can make out. While the speech is triggered at number 29, it actually happens over the course of solenoid tests 01 through 08. This speech happens regardless of the position of dip switch 17 on the MPU board.

What voltage are you measuring on pin 3 of the speech chip - my guesstimate is that it should be around "-2" volts.

When you power on, with your logic probe, what's the state of pins 2, 5, 7, 10, 12, 15 of U5?
When speech is being triggered, does the logic probe indicate any change on any of these pins?
U5 is used to latch the speech command from the MPU board to the speech processor.

Do the same on U4 (it's the same type of chip as U5) it controls the pitch of speech and also the volume of the analog output.

What voltage do you measure on pin 40 of U8 which is the "/BUSY" signal?
What does the logic probe on pins 9, 10 and 11 of U6 indicate?

Can you also tell us which MPU board the game has? (original Stern or aftermarket)

#43 10 months ago
Quoted from Quench:Can you also tell us which MPU board the game has? (original Stern or aftermarket)

It is a Stern MPU-200, but I also tried a a Twobits MPU.

Quoted from Quench:

What voltage are you measuring on pin 3 of the speech chip - my guesstimate is that it should be around "-2" volts.

I have 2.11 volts on U8 pin 3.

Quoted from Quench:

What did the logic probe indicate on most of the EPROM pins? High or Low?

On the EPROM, pins 1 & 2 nothing, 3, 4, 5 high, 6, 7, 8 nothing, 9, 10, 11 high, 12 low, 13-17 high, 18 nothing, 19 high, 20 low, 21 high, 22, 23 nothing, and 24 high.

Quoted from Quench:

When you power on, with your logic probe, what's the state of pins 2, 5, 7, 10, 12, 15 of U5?
When speech is being triggered, does the logic probe indicate any change on any of these pins?
U5 is used to latch the speech command from the MPU board to the speech processor.
Do the same on U4 (it's the same type of chip as U5) it controls the pitch of speech and also the volume of the analog output.

U5 pins 2, 5, 7, 10, 12, & 15 all start low & go high on power up. Checking the pins of U4, & U5 through solenoid/sound test they are low through the whole test.

U4 pins 2, 7, 10, 12, & 15 also start low & go high on power up, but pin 5 is always high.

Quoted from Quench:

What voltage do you measure on pin 40 of U8 which is the "/BUSY" signal?

U8 pin 40 reads 0.0 volts.

Quoted from Quench:

What does the logic probe on pins 9, 10 and 11 of U6 indicate?

U6 pins 9, & 10 are high, & pin 10 is low with a very rapid pulse.

#44 10 months ago
Quoted from squad8:

I have 2.11 volts on U8 pin 3.

Is that positive or negative 2.11 volts? I expected it to be negative 2 volts. If it read positive, what voltage do you measure on the output of the 555 timer (pin 3 of U2)?
What voltage do you read on both sides of resistor R15?

Quoted from squad8:

U8 pin 40 reads 0.0 volts.

This is a concern. U8 pin 40 is the /BUSY output pin of the speech processor which is active low and at zero volts it is logic "low" which is saying it's always busy. It obviously isn't since it's not reading speech data from the ROM to process speech.

This signal ultimately goes back to the MPU board via pin 10 of U6. Let's fake it so it's not telling the MPU board it's busy. Carefully connect a jumper wire to +5V (TP2) on the speech board and connect the other end of the wire to pin 9 of U6. When you start a game or go to solenoid test mode does the speech board attempt to talk?

Quoted from squad8:

U5 pins 2, 5, 7, 10, 12, & 15 all start low & go high on power up. Checking the pins of U4, & U5 through solenoid/sound test they are low through the whole test.

U4 pins 2, 7, 10, 12, & 15 also start low & go high on power up, but pin 5 is always high.

When you say they "start low & go high on power up", do you mean at the moment you flick the power switch or some moments after you've powered on?

When you replaced U6, did you install a socket or solder the new chip in directly? If you socketed it, can you pull U6 out and redo these logic probe tests ^^^
Just trying to get an idea if U4 and U5 are working.

Quoted from squad8:

U6 pins 9, & 10 are high, & pin 10 is low with a very rapid pulse.

Typo here, pin 10 is listed twice - BTW, sorry I meant pins 8, 9 and 10 of U6, not 9, 10 and 11.

#45 10 months ago

I started to do the testing today and discovered that I am intermittently losing voltage on U8 pin 40. When I have voltage on pin 40 it is 5.10 volts, but still don’t have speech. I will try to figure out why it is intermittent and then go back through the requested testing. The male pins on J3 don’t look very good, So I may have to repin it.

#46 10 months ago

I can not get consistent test results due to the fact that pin 40 on U8 is going low. It is very inconsistent, when I let it cycle solenoid/sound test it will start high and go low until I turn the game off and back on. Sometimes it will go low on the first cycle and other times it could take 3 or 4 cycles. I thought that I could have had a connector issue, but I don’t think so.

The voltage on U2 pin 3 and the top of R15 is +2.11 volts, and the bottom of R15 is +5.17 volts

U6 is socketed, but I held off on pulling the chip because I can‘t get consistent readings. With U6 in pins 9 & 11 are high & pin 10 is low with a very rapid pulse.

#47 10 months ago
Quoted from squad8:

the bottom of R15 is +5.17 volts

The bottom of resistor R15 (which is J1/J2 connector side) goes to "-10V" (i.e. minus 10 volts). If you're reading +5 volts on it there's a problem..
Please recheck this reading on that resistor and measure the -10V supply at TP3 again.

Also measure the voltage across the CR3 10V zener diode. Red meter lead on the banded side, black meter lead on the non-banded side.
You should also check that the two 1N4004 diodes at CR1 and CR2 are good.

#48 10 months ago

Actually, can you post clear high res pictures front and back of the board?

I've been using the schematic above and the area we are measuring right now has missing components on your board so I need to reconstruct your board schematics in that area.
The Flight 2K schematic is the same as the one above.

#49 10 months ago
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#50 9 months ago

Sorry for the delay.

Ok, I played a little with this in emulation to understand it better and presume you know how to read schematics (can you?). This is a bit of an overview but you should see the outputs of the U4 and U5 chips change accordingly as words are (supposed to be) spoken during solenoid test mode. Importantly when the first word begins, all outputs of U4 and U5 should change from high to low, and the /BUSY signal from the U8 Speech processor should go low (zero volts or lower) during the time words should be spoken.

At power up, the Lamp Strobe #2 signal pulses high which latches all outputs of both 4174 chips at U4 and U5 "high".
On U5 this selects speech command "3F" hex which is the last spoken word available by the speech processor at U8. Presume this vocal word is just something silent/null.
On U4, this sets the U2 555 clock generator for the speech processor to about 30.5kHz (highest voice pitch).
It also sets the boards pre-amp output to volume 7 of 7 (this is reverse order so is quietest level - not necessarily silent).

Unfortunately there's no datasheet available for the S14001A speech processor so it makes things a bit more challenging.. It appears the "active low" /BUSY line can go to "-10" volts which isn't strictly logic level - hard to say without measuring a board. i.e. when it's low which could be between zero volts and -10 volts, it's busy processing speech. When it's near 5 volts (logic high) it's ready to accept a speech command.

At this point the /BUSY line from the U8 speech processor should be near 5 volts. This tells the MPU board via the Lamp Interrupt signal it's not busy and it's ready to accept a speech command.

Fast forward to solenoid test mode when it reaches solenoid #29.

After test "29", the test goes to "01" activating solenoid #01 but also the speech board says the word "One". To initiate this the following happens:

(1) Lamp Strobe #2 signal pulses high and latches all outputs of the 4174 chip at U4 chip "low". This sets the U2 555 clock generator for the speech processor to about 20.0kHz (lowest voice pitch), and the pre-amp output to volume 7 of 7 (loudest level).

(2) Lamp Strobe #2 signal pulses high again and latches all outputs of the 4174 chip at U5 chip "low". The U5 outputs selects speech command "00" hex which gets the speech processor at U8 ready to say the first word in its vocabulary sitting in the ROM which is "One". During this time, the speech processor makes the /BUSY line active by pulling it to zero volts or lower and is gated to the MPU board telling the CPU not to send any speech commands yet. The Lamp Strobe #2 signal now goes low and the speech processor now starts saying the word "One" by actively reading encoded voice data for "One" from the speech ROM.

(3) The speech processor finishes saying the word, and releases the /BUSY line so the MPU board can send the next speech command during solenoid test mode.

The sequence of commands during solenoid test mode are:
#01 U5:"00" "One" U4:"0-0" 20.0kHz, loudest volume.
#02 U5:"01" "Two" U4:"1-0" 21.5kHz, loudest volume.
#03 U5:"02" "Three" U4:"2-0" 23.0kHz, loudest volume.
#04 U5:"03" "Four" U4:"3-0" 24.5kHz, loudest volume.
#05 U5:"04" "Five" U4:"2-1" 23.0kHz, 2nd loudest volume.
#06 U5:"05" "Prepare" U4:"2-2" 23.0kHz, 3rd loudest volume.
#07 U5:"06" "Mission" U4:"2-4" 23.0kHz, medium volume.
#08 U5:"07" "Stand" U4:"2-7" 23.0kHz, quietest volume.

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Cabinet Parts
Third Coast Pinball
From: $ 155.00
From: $ 45.00
Displays
PinballSolutions.eu
From: $ 15.00
From: $ 14.00
Electronics
Third Coast Pinball
1,495
Machine - For Sale
Riverside, CA
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