(Topic ID: 238458)

Flight 2000 help!


By Supersunny76

1 year ago



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  • 239 posts
  • 23 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 5 months ago by chas10e
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#8 1 year ago

That second transformer on the left shouldn't be there - you'll have to find out why it's been retrofitted. Maybe post some pictures of where its wired from and to so we can see why it's there.

The picture gallery in the Flight 2000 club thread has photos showing the rectifier board connectors:
Club thread:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/flight-2000-club-members-and-fans-welcome

Club thread picture gallery:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/flight-2000-club-members-and-fans-welcome/?gallery&galleryp=2

#10 1 year ago

Looks like there's only two wires on that extra transformer. Taking a guess, your main transformer might be wired for 110V AC, and someone added that extra transformer (probably also 110V AC) in series with the main transformer so you can run it on your countries mains wall power. Unless the main transformer is faulty, this secondary transformer is unnecessary as the original main transformer can be wired for 220V or 240V as per the sheet behind the transformer.

The voltage configuration lugs are on the back of the main transformer along its lower area. You'll probably need to unbolt the transformer to get to the voltage lugs.

You probably also noticed your rectifier (power) board assembly isn't mounted in the original location:
https://images.pinside.com/0/f5/0d/0f50d377d9ca8f95404c07229a3f7e8f34cdc69c.jpg

#13 1 year ago

Hmm, the extra transformer looks like it's running in parallel on the mains power wires. It also looks like it's come from an older electromechanical machine. However it seems to me there is no output of that transformer connected anywhere. Remove it and properly insulate the mains wires where it's been connected to.

With a bit of work you can restore the rectifier board connectors to factory so they look like the picture from oldschoolbob above. You need to cleanup the wiring mess where the wires have been soldered directly to the back of the rectifier board. Note, only the wires from the transformer solder directly to the back of that board. The remaining wires running to the backbox, playfield and cabinet connect via the front three connectors. The 8 pin connector goes to the playfield. The 10 pin connector which is still there is for the cabinet, and the 20 pin connector runs to the backbox.

#24 1 year ago
Quoted from Supersunny76:

Ill check on the transformer jumper?..but how do i check.. just look at the back of it..?

You currently have the transformer on 220VAC, but I would change it to 240VAC. I know there was a change in Europe to "230VAC" to standardise, but apparently it didn't really take effect - only the allowable tolerances were changed to create an overlay with 220VAC countries, so UK is still 240VAC:

https://www.schneider-electric.co.uk/en/faqs/FA144717/

Post a picture that clearly shows the back of the transformer and the lug numbers. As Bob noted, the paper voltage chart on your transformer board is incorrectly marked. It says the yellow wire should go to lug 12 for 220V operation, but then points it to lug 13...

#27 1 year ago
Quoted from oldschoolbob:

My guess is 25A-18-1 is for 115 Volts and 25A-18-2 is for 220 Volts.

Yes that's correct. 25A-18-2 is used in 220 volt and 240 volt environments. Since the game was wired for 220 volts you should have the right part.

Unsolder the yellow wire from lug 12 on the transformer and then solder it onto lug 7 (which is along the bottom) for 240 volts configuration.

#29 1 year ago
Quoted from Supersunny76:

Dumb question, if its was on 220v prior as it was...and has been working since the 80s(and when i powered it on with GI lights were working...since then Uk volts have changed to 240v(just trying to get my head around it)

UK was always 240 volts as I understand. Your game might have come from mainland Europe at some point who are 220 volts.

Quoted from Supersunny76:

What would happen if i left it at 220v.?....Would it still be ok?

You can leave it on 220 volts - but the game will consume 10% more power which equates to extra heat and stresses.

If you're not familiar with voltage and current then I'd suggest you leave it as is for now. After you have more electrical experience with the machine from reinstating new connector on the cables that plug onto the rectifier board and then deal with the low voltage issues, you can consider visiting this at a later point.

Note, you have 10 other wires coming from the transformer that will need to be soldered onto your new rectifier board when you get it. The transformer is hard wired to that board, it's not attached via a connector.

#36 1 year ago

You'll need to plug in connector J2 onto the rectifier board to power it up. J2 carries the wall mains power connections through to the transformer.

Check out the quick process on what connectors connect to what when you first power up the game and verify voltages:

http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Bally/Stern#Powering_up_the_first_time

#41 1 year ago

There's a fair amount of battery corrosion on that MPU board and its connectors. You have some work ahead of you. The battery has leaked and also caused corrosion on the lamp driver board beneath it, but it may/may not exhibit issues.

If I were you I would be bench testing that MPU board now. The memory chip at U8 looks like there's green corrosion on it. The pin headers look corroded too - you will have to re-terminate those connectors if you want the game to run reliably. Presuming the MPU board fails to boot you'll want to work out how to move forward with it.

#55 1 year ago

You're getting good advice from others here. Restoring corroded boards back to good health is time consuming but if you do it properly they're good to go. It'll require patience, parts, skill and the right tools.

Pinsider @barakandl sells a single NVRAM module that plugs into both U8 and U13 sockets. See the bottom of his web page for the MPU-200 NVRAM - however he's out of stock at the minute.
https://nvram.weebly.com/

Note, he also sells new replacement MPU boards if you're daunted at repairing your MPU board.

3 weeks later
#81 11 months ago
Quoted from Supersunny76:

J3-19 red/yellow - ( i thought i had a red and orange..but now looking at it outside from the cellar ..would it be red/yellow(pic3).?

That red wire appears to have faint yellow blocks on it. If there's no other obvious red-yellow wires that's probably it.

Quoted from Supersunny76:

J3-13 white /yellow. I don't have this wire showing in my harness(any ideas??) Pic 2

The Flight 2000 rectifier board schematic (oldschoolbob attached it in post #12 ) shows no wire at J3-13. It was originally used by older Sterns that had the knocker coil in the back box but your vintage game has the knocker in the cabinet (looks like its missing from your game though).

Quoted from Supersunny76:

J1
Abit lost on this connector..

All i can see is a white /2 x blues /red /and looks like a blue and white

Pic 4 - J1 pin 3 says spare.. but on the old rectifier board theres one of the Blue wires connected. Also on Pic 5 theres a brown wire jumper from J1 to J3.

The reference picture of J1 you have is from Bally and their wire color locations were a little different to Stern. Look at the rectifier board schematic in post #12 which shows the wire colors for J1.

#84 11 months ago
Quoted from Lovef2k:

F2K doesn't have a knocker. When winning a free credit by match, you get an electronic sound.

Cheers, thanks for the clarification - looks like they ran out of driver transistors on the SDB for a knocker.

#90 11 months ago

Make sure you disconnect J3 from the rectifier board aswell!
Only J2 should be connected on first powerup which ensures no circuit boards in the backbox are at the risk of getting powered with wrong voltages.

Measure the voltages at the test points on the rectifier board. If all within spec then you can plug in J3 which hooks up power to the circuit boards in the backbox.

#92 11 months ago
Quoted from Supersunny76:

That the money shot right there! J1

I can label all my wires now but ive two blues.. on the photo. My old wires are soldered together..see photo

Those particular two blue wires are both power for the feature lamps on the playfield. One blue wire will supply some lamps, the other blue wire will supply other lamps. As long as they're in pins 3 and 7 of J1 that's all that's important.

On the rectifier board, both pins 3 and 7 are connected together and supply 5.4 volts to the feature lamps.
The reason for running two wires is the lamps draw a lot of current so they spread the load on two connector pins/wires.
.
F2K_RectifierBoard_J1.jpg

#97 11 months ago
Quoted from Lovef2k:

The high volt for score displays should be over 200.

It's common for some digital multi-meters to give a reading of about 150 volts when there's no load. There's a number of people posting such a reading here. If you want the true reading you have to measure the other side of the 100k ohm R3 resistor on the rectifier board. Alternatively after you plug in the solenoid driver board (SDB), if you measure around 230-240 volts at test point TP4 on the SDB then you know the high voltage from the transformer is ok.

Quoted from cottonm4:

I understand this right up to the point where J3-6 and J1-3 both splice into J1-7 somewhere on the board where all of the load is concentrated. Seems to me that everything feeds off of J1-7 which will be taking all of the load no matter how the wiring is split up.

I was referring to spreading the load across two connector crimp terminal/pins, not how the traces are run on the board.

Quoted from cottonm4:

I also fail to understand why two blue wires are needed on the play field, other than to prevent the crossover of a bare GI power wire string and a bare feature wire string where some feature lights are surrounded by a cluster of GI lights.

Below is a chart from Molex indicating the current capacity of their 0.156" (3.96mm) crimp terminals. Maximum for brass is 5 amps and maximum for phopsphor bronze is 7.0 amps. Back in the day Stern likely would have used brass terminals to save cost. With each #44 lamp drawing approx 0.25 - 0.3 amps, if lots/all feature lamps are on, it exceeds current capacity on a single wire terminal connection. So they doubled up.
Having said this it begs the question why Stern didn't double up on the GI lighting at connector J1 like Bally did. I can't answer that.
Personally I would be splicing the GI wires into two and double crimp terminal them in J1 so that that you crimp wire pin 1 to pin 2 and pin 8 to pin 5. Of course these should be trifurcon phosphor bronze crimp terminals for maximum mating contact surface and current carrying capacity.

Molex_0156_Terminal_Current_rating.jpg

#102 11 months ago
Quoted from Supersunny76:

We mentioned TP4 and how to check..is TP1 low too?
Tp1 6.0
Tp2 156
Tp3 11.3
Tp4 6.6 Ac
Tp5 44.9
Tp6 ground

The voltage at TP1 is fine.

Since you've already hooked up J3 to the rectifier board you should now go and measure the voltages on the solenoid driver board - it's the board in the top right of the backbox.
All voltages there are DC. See the nominal solenoid test point voltages here: note TP2 and TP4 are high voltage so be careful.

http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Bally/Stern#Solenoid_Driver.2FRegulator_Test_Point_Values

While you're in the backbox measure the voltages on the MPU board test points too:

http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Bally/Stern#MPU_Test_Point_Values

#104 11 months ago
Quoted from cottonm4:

I am just having trouble wrapping my head around the fact that all of the feature light wiring from the back box J3-6 and J1-3 all converge on J1-7 which takes all of the load.

Hmm, I'm looking at a Stern MPU-200 based rectifier board. The feature lamp voltage trace comes from J3-6, goes up to J1-7 then to J1-3. Where do you see them all converge at J1-7?

.

Quoted from cottonm4:

OK. When I restored and reran the wiring on my Big Game I elected to use copper foil tape for all of the feature lights. In my ignorance, I ran all feature lights from one copper foil "circuit". That was a mistake. There almost 50 feature lights and they get a little dim when all are lit up.

This seems normal to me. I've never seen a Bally/Stern in lamp test mode with the full brightness of all lamps being the same as the brightness of very few on lamps, all lamps on are dimmer due to the current strain on the transformer causing the voltage to drop.
If you're concerned the copper foil is an issue, measure the voltage loss across it (when all lamps are on) between the entry point you've soldered the power wire to and at the end of the foil chain. It should be close to zero/negligible voltage loss. Then measure the voltage at the end of the foil with respect to ground and compare it to the voltage at TP1 on the rectifier board. If voltages are about the same when all lamps are on, your copper foil run should be ok - presuming the foil is making good contact with the lamp sockets.

.

Quoted from cottonm4:

While I am doing this, should I split up my GI wiring and run half of the GI on Pin 1-Red and Pin 5-White and the other half to Pin 2-Red and Pin 8-White? Would doing this allow, or cause, the GI bulbs to burn brighter? It sure would be an easy project to set up.

That's what Bally does. Seems like a lot of work to me to do it on your Big Game though. The connectors are the weakest point (hence so many get burnt over time at the rectifier boards) which is why I mentioned to splice the wires and double the crimp terminals for improved connectivity/redundancy.

BTW, are you running LEDs or incandescents?

#107 11 months ago
Quoted from cottonm4:

Can I assume that the weak link is all of this is the crimp connector and if the three blue wires were hardwired to their respective pins there would be no current overload issues?

Yes.
See this post which will be of interest - infact BigAl56 comment earlier in the thread about bulbs is interesting too:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/six-million-dollar-man-fitted-with-555-lamps#post-4459732

Quoted from cottonm4:

So BR 1 is taking all of the load per design.

Yep, BR1 runs closer to current capacity and has the higher rate of failure of those three bridges on the rectifier board.

Quoted from cottonm4:

I installed all LEDs in the Big Game not long after I had it up and running.

As you're probably aware LEDs draw less current so they put less strain on the system - note, LEDs with four or more SMDs can consume just as much as an incandescent..

#111 11 months ago
Quoted from cottonm4:

Interesting link. Thank you. It almost sounds like I should be hardwiring all of the pins with a pigtail wire and crimping on AMP Mate-n-Loks.

While hardwiring is going to give you solid connectivity, I'm not suggesting you do it. The link to what Bally did was more a FYI.

May I ask what problem you're trying to fix?

"AMP/TE Connectivity" also make 0.156" connectors - their terminals look better with more surface contact than your standard Molex crimp terminals:
https://mouser.com/ProductDetail/TE-Connectivity-AMP/3-770476-1-Cut-Strip?qs=sGAEpiMZZMttKWgNLnZcJpC%252BDDMIV%252BS%252B

I bought some a few years ago but never got round to trying them. If you want closeup pics of the crimp terminals and housings, let me know.

#116 11 months ago
Quoted from Lovef2k:

I would go weebly for rec board. Excellent design.

Ditto. barakandl's rectifier board has thick traces and multiple eyelet through holes between back and front board traces.

Quoted from cottonm4:

I'd love to see close ups. I am always interested in options.

FYI, pictures of the "AMP/TE Connectivity" 0.156" (3.96mm) crimp terminals. They come in 3 different spring strengths depending on the application.
I haven't tried them yet and don't know how they compare performance wise over Molex Trifurcons.

IMG_0001a.jpg
IMG_0002a.jpg
IMG_0004a.jpg
IMG_0006a.jpg
IMG_0007a.jpg
IMG_0011a.jpg
IMG_0019a.jpg

#121 11 months ago
Quoted from cottonm4:

I have bought terminals on belts before. They are easy enough to strip down; I would have no prob if you were selling the belted ones.

The AMP terminals above are easy to cut off the strip. Molex on a strip are another matter.. A fraction too wide and they won't fit in the housing.

IMG_0084a.jpg
IMG_0024a.jpg

#122 11 months ago
Quoted from oldschoolbob:

Do you have to replace the plug housing also to use AMP connectors? Or will the fit into the Molex housing?

You have to replace the housing, but they're cheap.
Molex housings have internal guides that slot their crimp terminals into position. Those guides block the particular AMP/TE dual wipe terminals pictured above in post #116 from fitting.

The reason I originally purchased these AMP/TE connectors to try was they were cheaper than Molex and I liked the fact they had a flat side that sat along the pin header to provide more surface contact. The AMP/TE website is working now and details on their terminal I listed in post #116 indicate they're rated to 10 amps max.

3 weeks later
#167 10 months ago

Do the specs on those LEDs say anything about them working in AC as well as DC circuits?

If they're just for auto they will likely be DC only and these pinballs have the lamp sockets wired opposite to car lamp sockets so they won't work in the feature lamps. In the GI lamps they will flicker because they wont switch on during both AC positive and negative phases.

Note, these 5 SMD LEDs can run just as hot as standard incadescent lamps.

#169 10 months ago

Hopefully these LEDs will work in AC and DC conditions.

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