(Topic ID: 238458)

Flight 2000 help!

By Supersunny76

5 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

  • 240 posts
  • 24 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 10 months ago by mof
  • Topic is favorited by 11 Pinsiders

You

Linked Games

Topic Gallery

View topic image gallery

20191020_112034 (resized).jpg
20191020_112028 (resized).jpg
IMG-20190827-WA0011 (resized).jpeg
IMG-20190827-WA0007 (resized).jpeg
20190824_152024 (resized).jpg
20190826_151345 (resized).jpg
20190825_151123 (resized).jpg
20190818_123926 (resized).jpg
20190815_202806 (resized).jpg
IMG-20190805-WA0010 (resized).jpeg
20190803_112229 (resized).jpg
Screenshot_20190623-205519_WhatsApp (resized).jpg
Screenshot_20190623-205509_WhatsApp (resized).jpg
20190622_143032 (resized).jpg
20190622_143040 (resized).jpg
20190623_200009 (resized).jpg

You're currently viewing posts by Pinsider cottonm4.
Click here to go back to viewing the entire thread.

#76 5 years ago

following this excellent thread.

#94 5 years ago
Quoted from Quench:

The reason for running two wires is the lamps draw a lot of current so they spread the load on two connector pins/wires.

I understand this right up to the point where J3-6 and J1-3 both splice into J1-7 somewhere on the board where all of the load is concentrated. Seems to me that everything feeds off of J1-7 which will be taking all of the load no matter how the wiring is split up.

I also fail to understand why two blue wires are needed on the play field, other than to prevent the crossover of a bare GI power wire string and a bare feature wire string where some feature lights are surrounded by a cluster of GI lights.

I am still learning this stuff. Anything to help my understanding is always welcome.

#99 5 years ago
Quoted from Quench:

I was referring to spreading the load across two connector crimp terminal/pins, not how the traces are run on the board.

I understand what you were saying. I am just having trouble wrapping my head around the fact that all of the feature light wiring from the back box J3-6 and J1-3 all converge on J1-7 which takes all of the load. That is not an entirely correct statement, because according to the diagram
J3-6 and J1-3 come in behind J1-7, so J1-7 pin does not take any extra load, but what ever is on the rectifier board sure takes a hit.

( I hope the OP does not think I hijacked his thread because you sure turned on a light---no pun intended).

Quoted from Quench:

Below is a chart from Molex indicating the current capacity of their 0.156" (3.96mm) crimp terminals. Maximum for brass is 5 amps and maximum for phopsphor bronze is 7.0 amps. Back in the day Stern likely would have used brass terminals to save cost. With each #44 lamp drawing approx 0.25 - 0.3 amps, if lots/all feature lamps are on, it exceeds current capacity on a single wire terminal connection. So they doubled up.
Having said this it begs the question why Stern didn't double up on the GI lighting at connector J1 like Bally did. I can't answer that.
Personally I would be splicing the GI wires into two and double crimp terminal them in J1 so that that you crimp wire pin 1 to pin 2 and pin 8 to pin 5. Of course these should be trifurcon phosphor bronze crimp terminals for maximum mating contact surface and current carrying capacity.
[quoted image]

OK. When I restored and reran the wiring on my Big Game I elected to use copper foil tape for all of the feature lights. In my ignorance, I ran all feature lights from one copper foil "circuit". That was a mistake. There almost 50 feature lights and they get a little dim when all are lit up. So, I need to breakdown all my wiring and re-do the copper foil into two "circuits" that feed both J1-3 pin and J1-7 pin.

While I am doing this, should I split up my GI wiring and run half of the GI on Pin 1-Red and Pin 5-White and the other half to Pin 2-Red and Pin 8-White? Would doing this allow, or cause, the GI bulbs to burn brighter? It sure would be an easy project to set up.

Thanks

#105 5 years ago
Quoted from Quench:

Hmm, I'm looking at a Stern MPU-200 based rectifier board. The feature lamp voltage trace comes from J3-6, goes up to J1-7 then to J1-3. Where do you see them all converge at J1-7?

Sorry. Bad choice of words. They don't converge on pin J1-7 but all three feed into the same trace on the board that leads to BR 1. So BR 1 is taking all of the load per design. At least, this is what I am thinking. Can I assume that the weak link is all of this is the crimp connector and if the three blue wires were hardwired to their respective pins there would be no current overload issues?

c85cda5f407b5790a129cab2a41f2ce1999f2203 (resized).jpgc85cda5f407b5790a129cab2a41f2ce1999f2203 (resized).jpg

Quoted from Quench:

This seems normal to me. I've never seen a Bally/Stern in lamp test mode with the full brightness of all lamps being the same as the brightness of very few on lamps, all lamps on are dimmer due to the current strain on the transformer causing the voltage to drop.
If you're concerned the copper foil is an issue, measure the voltage loss across it (when all lamps are on) between the entry point you've soldered the power wire to and at the end of the foil chain. It should be close to zero/negligible voltage loss. Then measure the voltage at the end of the foil with respect to ground and compare it to the voltage at TP1 on the rectifier board. If voltages are about the same when all lamps are on, your copper foil run should be ok - presuming the foil is making good contact with the lamp sockets.

Thanks. I'll try this.

Quoted from Quench:

That's what Bally does. Seems like a lot of work to me to do it on your Big Game though. The connectors are the weakest point (hence so many get burnt over time at the rectifier boards) which is why I mentioned to splice the wires and double the crimp terminals for improved connectivity/redundancy.
BTW, are you running LEDs or incandescents?

OK. I understand now. Thanks. Someone did this action with the GI return wire on my Nine Ball. Now I know what's up. Talking about this stuff helps me to understand it.

I installed all LEDs in the Big Game not long after I had it up and running.

#108 5 years ago
Quoted from Quench:

Yes.
See this post which will be of interest - infact BigAl56 comment earlier in the thread about bulbs is interesting too:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/six-million-dollar-man-fitted-with-555-lamps#post-4459732

Yep, BR1 runs closer to current capacity and has the higher rate of failure of those three bridges on the rectifier board.

As you're probably aware LEDs draw less current so they put less strain on the system - note, LEDs with four or more SMDs can consume just as much as an incandescent..

Interesting link. Thank you. It almost sounds like I should be hardwiring all of the pins with a pigtail wire and crimping on AMP Mate-n-Loks.

Nice info. on the 4SMD power consumption. I find 2SMD to be bright enough with out being blinding.

#113 5 years ago
Quoted from Quench:

While hardwiring is going to give you solid connectivity, I'm not suggesting you do it. The link to what Bally did was more a FYI.
May I ask what problem you're trying to fix?

I'm not dealing with problem right now. You have been willing to answer my questions, challenge me when I am wrong, and share your knowledge so I just kept asking. I have learned a lot in these last few posts.

It all started with this:

Quoted from cottonm4:

I understand this right up to the point where J3-6 and J1-3 both splice into J1-7 somewhere on the board where all of the load is concentrated. Seems to me that everything feeds off of J1-7 which will be taking all of the load no matter how the wiring is split up.
I also fail to understand why two blue wires are needed on the play field, other than to prevent the crossover of a bare GI power wire string and a bare feature wire string where some feature lights are surrounded by a cluster of GI lights.
I am still learning this stuff. Anything to help my understanding is always welcome.

I'm interested in knowing what options the MPU-200 Sterns have in the way of rectifier boards. There is the Rottendog--I have one. Barakandi/Weebly is offering completed boards and DYI boards. Are there any other options for these pins?

I do have a rectifier board in one pin that is getting weak. It is only a matter of time and I am leaning toward the Weebly DYI unit.

Quoted from Quench:

"AMP/TE Connectivity" also make 0.156" connectors - their terminals look better with more surface contact than your standard Molex crimp terminals:
https://mouser.com/ProductDetail/TE-Connectivity-AMP/3-770476-1-Cut-Strip?qs=sGAEpiMZZMttKWgNLnZcJpC%252BDDMIV%252BS%252B
I bought some a few years ago but never got round to trying them. If you want closeup pics of the crimp terminals and housings, let me know.

I'd love to see close ups. I am always interested in options.

#115 5 years ago
Quoted from Lovef2k:

I would go weebly for rec board. Excellent design.

Thanks. I ordered two. Within 15 minutes I was sent a tracking number. That’s fast action.

#120 5 years ago
Quoted from G-P-E:

AMP is *always* better than Molex.
I'll probably be switching over from Molex to AMP now that Molex has moved their operations to India.
Trying to look for those contacts in loose form but AMP's website has had issues all night. Will try again Sat.

I have bought terminals on belts before. They are easy enough to strip down; I would have no prob if you were selling the belted ones.

2 weeks later
#140 4 years ago
Quoted from Supersunny76:

Ok. Quick post. U swapped over the displays.. to the ones flickering.. same issue in displays
On the kicker ball.. i straighten up the shaft...for some reason was off.. and lubed up the coil shaft with lithium grease and bingo.. kicks the ball out now..
But some times kicks out two balls...??
I fixed and checked the ribbon cables as two went working..but still no sound..

What you call coil shaft is a plunger. The coil sleeve the plunger slides in is self-lubricating. You should not be using lubricants under your play field.

Check the plunger and make sure it has not mushroomed on the tip.

Mushroomed plungers should be replaced but you can file it down a little if you must for a short term fix.

Also use some 220 grit sandpaper on the plunger to make it nice and smooth.

#148 4 years ago

The speech board part number is VSU-100. It uses a chip that may have gone bad. The chip is obsolete. I bought one as a spare from a reseller for my Catacomb.

He had 14 is so in stock before we started buying him out. I don’t know if he has any left or not.

I’ll check my records for info when I get home.

#151 4 years ago

Set your slope to 6%. Maybe even 6.5%. F2K is a fast game.

For stock bulbs use #47s.

To drive LEDs you need an Alltek lamp board.

#158 4 years ago
Quoted from Supersunny76:

Makes perfect sense.. i haven't had time to look at the mirco switches but i think ones bent too back .. but ill update you guys on my finding...
My friend txt me today and said what you up too.. i said selling bags of soil.. he said..whattt? People actually buy bags of soil? I laughed lol
Sold 120 bags today.. not at great cost.. but get my drive car ports done for free.. instead of dropping 2.5k lol...
My missus says ive alot of patience.. I guess when I work on something and before I start losing my Focus I tend to walk away and come back the next day... solves alot of problems..and always find a solution ..and it always works out i find... ohh and shit loads of beer too
Thanks guys.. this threads been quite the journey. Hope it helps anyone else in years to come
[quoted image]

I've always wanted to try an English pint.

#162 4 years ago
Quoted from cottonm4:

The speech board part number is VSU-100. It uses a chip that may have gone bad. The chip is obsolete. I bought one as a spare from a reseller for my Catacomb.
He had 14 is so in stock before we started buying him out. I don’t know if he has any left or not.
I’ll check my records for info when I get home.

I told you about a chip for your VSU-100 speech board. Here is the info.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/catacomb-club?tq=&tu=gkw

See posts by pinsider GKW. Look at posts # 415, #419, and post #485

#485 gives you this link for a S14001A speech synthesizer.

http://www.gameroomrepair.com/ICparts/ICparts.htm#S14001

It looks like he still has some in stock. I bought my 2 chips and another UK contact also bought. But I got mine cheaper. The seller figured a rin was on and raised his prices to my UK friend.

Once you get it all together and if have no speech this is probably going to be what you need.

2 weeks later
#228 4 years ago
Quoted from Supersunny76:

and Q17 lit up....

I 'm late to this party and need to catch up, or try to. Or at least look I'm trying to. If I am repeating anything already discusses, apologies. Frunch is here so you are in good hands.

1) Connector J1 on the the rectifier board is your lights. The read and white are the GI lights. The blues are feature lights and the blue/white is flippers. Try disconnecting J1 to isolate you don't have any shorted lights.

2) Q-17 on the SDU has Orange/Red wire on the J5 connector at pin 7 located at lower right of the SDU. Pull pin #7 from the J5 connector and see what happens. The wire on the other side is a yellow/white wire on J4-11. That is the small 12 pin connector on right hand side of the SDU. So pull the Y/W at pin 11 on connector J4. This should completely take Q-17 and all of its circuitry out of the equation. No promises. See what happens.

3) You mentioned about having to reach all the way over to get to the connectors on the left hand side. All of your wire harnesses are in clusters. Mark your connectors so you know how they go back. Disconnect all the connectors for one cluster of wires and let that cluster drop into the cabinet. Lift your play field, prop it up, and drag that cluster of wires over to the side and re-pin all of the pins you need to re-pin. Then reverse the procedure and reconnect the connectors. It is much easier on the back.

Most of the connectors can only locate to one set of pins on the boards so they are not too hard to figure out how reconnect. However, there are a couple of connectors that you can mis-locate by a couple of pins and plug them to the wrong connecter but if you do that you will be seeing a couple of open pins.

4) I can't find my road map, but each connector is labeled on the boards. J1, J2, J3, J4, and J5. Each connector on the boards in labeled with how many pins are on the connector. 1-12, 1-15, 1-17, etc. The pin numbers can be left to right: 1-12 or right to left 12-1. They can be labeled up to down or down to up. 1 on top 12 on bottom or 12 on top 1 on bottom.

Hope this helps.

Promoted items from Pinside Marketplace and Pinside Shops!
From: £ 110.00
$ 125.00
From: $ 115.00
Playfield - Protection
Beehive Pinball Co.
 
$ 10.00
$ 3.00
Cabinet Parts
20eyes
 
From: $ 170.00
From: $ 1.00
Playfield - Other
Rocket City Pinball
 
From: $ 14.00
Electronics
Third Coast Pinball
 
$ 20.00
Playfield - Protection
arcade-cabinets.com
 
$ 199.95
Wanted
Machine - Wanted
Melbourne Beach, FL
Wanted
Machine - Wanted
Crown Point, IN
$ 12.00
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
UpKick Pinball
 
Great pinball charity
Pinball Edu

You're currently viewing posts by Pinsider cottonm4.
Click here to go back to viewing the entire thread.

Reply

Wanna join the discussion? Please sign in to reply to this topic.

Hey there! Welcome to Pinside!

Donate to Pinside

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run without any 3rd-party banners or ads, thanks to the support from our visitors? Please consider a donation to Pinside and get anext to your username to show for it! Or better yet, subscribe to Pinside+!


This page was printed from https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/flight-2000-help?tu=cottonm4 and we tried optimising it for printing. Some page elements may have been deliberately hidden.

Scan the QR code on the left to jump to the URL this document was printed from.