(Topic ID: 238458)

Flight 2000 help!


By Supersunny76

3 months ago



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  • 22 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 day ago by Lovef2k
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There are 233 posts in this topic. You are on page 5 of 5.
#201 34 days ago

Ok dudes..
So yesterday and today ive re pinned all the boards.. mpu..solenoid..and lamp... great fit on the new alltek boards and nice firm fit, took hours lol

But no ciger

Same issue.. 7 flashes.. no game start after boot.. tried clearing the memory etc... same...booted a few times...

They only time something did.. was the very first flick of the switch to on.. the led on the solenoid stayed on... Q17..see photo. And the game briefly went to search mode..and clicked twice on the Apollo area..and Q17 lit up....
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#202 34 days ago

Just tried a bag of times and cleared out the memory..

Same issue. I looked up the Q17. Says solenoid top right kicker.. but i hasn't come on again..the led on the solenoid board... ive checked all the solenoid were moving freely prior installing the mpu and solenoid board...says not to leave on if it locks up i think..or it could blow fuses...etc..

Ahh its a long road... its funny how it was working... and now it fails to go into attached mode..

The alltek when fully booted the led should stay on but half dimmed down... this doesn't happen..

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#203 34 days ago

I'm glad you posted a pic of the re-pin you did. It's important not to have too much excess bare wire at the end of the connector, it might affect the way the pin fits in the housing (perhaps too tight a fit?). I took your pic of the re-pin, and drew yellow arrows pointing at the excess bare wire and put a red line where the bare wire should end (approximately).
1499818104.png

At this point it's hard to say if it still might be a connector issue, but if they're all tight in the housing and the pins are securely crimped, i suppose the problem might be elsewhere.

Do the score displays show anything? Have you tested all the switches in the switch test since re-pinning?

#204 34 days ago

The scores on the credit and match read all zeros. 00000..how do i go into switch testing mode?. when it boots up.. the test button and memory does nothing ... or do you mean you can test on the alltek solenoid board itself?
Cheers dude

#205 34 days ago
Quoted from Supersunny76:

Just tried a bag of times and cleared out the memory..
Same issue. I looked up the Q17. Says solenoid top right kicker.. but i hasn't come on again..the led on the solenoid board... ive checked all the solenoid were moving freely prior installing the mpu and solenoid board...says not to leave on if it locks up i think..or it could blow fuses...etc..
Ahh its a long road... its funny how it was working... and now it fails to go into attached mode..
The alltek when fully booted the led should stay on but half dimmed down... this doesn't happen..[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

It is a long road brother, but you'll get there. So explain solenoid 17 to me, I don't understand what's going on. Did the kicker lock up? The LED on the solenoid driver should only light while the coil is activated and then go out. Unless the MPU is holding it up somehow? But yes, if a coil locks up, you need to kill the power immediately or the coil will fry and smoke and stink. The Alltek is new, so you shouldn't have a shorted driver transistor this soon. I have seen coils burn up and not blow the PF coil fuse. I just looked at my schematic. Q17 is listed under the "continuous solenoid" section. So maybe the LED for Q17 is supposed to stay lit? My game isn't set up at the moment so I can't check mine for you. Anyway, double check that you didn't mix up any wire while replacing connectors. Q17 goes to J4 pin 11 on the solenoid driver. Yellow/white wire. But this issue shouldn't cause the game not to go into attract mode.

I'm still thinking of the trough switches. Did you ohm-buzz them out while holding them closed? You have 3 switches there to check, 2 micro switches and the one under the red plastic thingy. All 3 must be closed for attract mode. Also check them with the pf in normal position and 3 balls in the trough. You will need to go through the coin door to do it this way. Make sure you bypass the diodes when measuring. It's also possible there's a bad diode on one of the trough switches.

I'm still puzzled about the match/ball display lighting up all zeros. Did you work on it? If reflowed header pins, make sure you didn't bridge any pins with solder.

#206 34 days ago
Quoted from Lovef2k:

It is a long road brother, but you'll get there. So explain solenoid 17 to me, I don't understand what's going on. Did the kicker lock up? The LED on the solenoid driver should only light while the coil is activated and then go out. Unless the MPU is holding it up somehow? But yes, if a coil locks up, you need to kill the power immediately or the coil will fry and smoke and stink. The Alltek is new, so you shouldn't have a shorted driver transistor this soon. I have seen coils burn up and not blow the PF coil fuse. I just looked at my schematic. Q17 is listed under the "continuous solenoid" section. So maybe the LED for Q17 is supposed to stay lit? My game isn't set up at the moment so I can't check mine for you. Anyway, double check that you didn't mix up any wire while replacing connectors. Q17 goes to J4 pin 11 on the solenoid driver. Yellow/white wire. But this issue shouldn't cause the game not to go into attract mode.
I'm still thinking of the trough switches. Did you ohm-buzz them out while holding them closed? You have 3 switches there to check, 2 micro switches and the one under the red plastic thingy. All 3 must be closed for attract mode. Also check them with the pf in normal position and 3 balls in the trough. You will need to go through the coin door to do it this way. Make sure you bypass the diodes when measuring. It's also possible there's a bad diode on one of the trough switches.
I'm still puzzled about the match/ball display lighting up all zeros. Did you work on it? If reflowed header pins, make sure you didn't bridge any pins with solder.

Ok ill check j4 pin 11 when am home.. yes well..it only happened once..Q17.. it stayed lit.. but i had my hand on the on/off switch and killed the power..

I checked all the solenoid and no smoke..no burning at all.. there quite clean..the ohms check on the 2 micro switch ..i checked both.... but i don't think i checked the red plastic one thou?..

How do you measure on a multi meter (settings) on the trough switches? (Sorry.. a learning experience this for me lol)

The display I worked on was (if your facing the pinall )bottom left... i placed a socket and a new chip on it.. i pretty sure i was careful when soldering..but i can take photos when am home.. it was working the displays...flickers but displayed the full scores...(well kind of )when it was playing before the errors am experiencing now ..

Thanks dude.. so want this to work... i know ill get to going ..and all down to everyone's help
Really appreciate

#207 34 days ago

Try unplugging all but one score display and turn the game on. Use a score display that you have not worked on and you know is good, and put it in player 1 position.

#208 33 days ago
Quoted from Xtraball:

Try unplugging all but one score display and turn the game on. Use a score display that you have not worked on and you know is good, and put it in player 1 position.

Ok will do.. i know display bottom right works just fine...(haven't worked on that one) ...ill try that too tonight

#209 33 days ago

Quick question

Under the play field.. the fuse states 1. 1/4 fuse.(see pic) anyone know the uk amp equivalent ?

I took out the fuse when i was checking the ball through micro switches .. it has continuity.. in order for these fuses to run properly.. is there a gas inside the fuse? Like. Bulb?...The reason why i ask is both ends rotate slightly around the glass fuse.. ?..trying to find a uk supplier.. may be that has been the issue...?..

#210 33 days ago
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#211 33 days ago

It looks blown, but pull that fuse out and test it for continuity with your meter to be sure.

#212 33 days ago
Quoted from frunch:

It looks blown, but pull that fuse out and test it for continuity with your meter to be sure.

Yup..checked the other day... had continuity ..not the best shape though...
1-1/4 amp fuse i dont know what amp it need to be..and the uk equivalent
..

#213 33 days ago
Quoted from Supersunny76:

Yup..checked the other day... had continuity ..not the best shape though...
1-1/4 amp fuse i dont know what amp it need to be..and the uk equivalent
..

That should be the same amperage anywhere on the planet. Doesn't matter what region you're in.

The only exception may be the main fuse if running 220v instead of 110v.

#214 33 days ago
Quoted from Robotworkshop:

That should be the same amperage anywhere on the planet. Doesn't matter what region you're in.
The only exception may be the main fuse if running 220v instead of 110v.

Sorry buddy.. i mean the ampage for the play field fuse

Uk transformer is 240v

#215 33 days ago
Quoted from Supersunny76:

Ok ill check j4 pin 11 when am home.. yes well..it only happened once..Q17.. it stayed lit.. but i had my hand on the on/off switch and killed the power..
I checked all the solenoid and no smoke..no burning at all.. there quite clean..the ohms check on the 2 micro switch ..i checked both.... but i don't think i checked the red plastic one thou?..
How do you measure on a multi meter (settings) on the trough switches? (Sorry.. a learning experience this for me lol)
The display I worked on was (if your facing the pinall )bottom left... i placed a socket and a new chip on it.. i pretty sure i was careful when soldering..but i can take photos when am home.. it was working the displays...flickers but displayed the full scores...(well kind of )when it was playing before the errors am experiencing now ..
Thanks dude.. so want this to work... i know ill get to going ..and all down to everyone's help
Really appreciate

Cheers Bro. We love to help here on PS.

Going back to the PF coil fuse. The primary voltage weather 240 or 120V doesn't matter for the fuse voltage rating because the transformer steps the voltages down to the proper voltages needed to run the game. Which for coils is like 43V. Since you manually measured the fuse, it should be ok. I don't think these fuses are vacuum sealed, I could be wrong. The bigger issue here is the fuse holder clips. I always replace them when doing a restore. The clips lose tension and corrode over time. This causes a weak connection, which leads to premature fuse failure and high resistance through the fuse. It's a pain to solder new ones in, unless you have the pf out on a table lying flat upside down.

But, the solenoid fuse weather good or bad will not prevent attract mode if you have all 3 balls at the trough. It will prevent the kickers from operating to release the balls in the Apollo launcher at the start of the game when you first power up.

To measure the switches, use the continuity selector on the VOM if it has one. Test by touching the leads together you should hear a beep sound from the meter. If it doesn't have this feature, set it the lowest ohm scale. A closed switch should read no more than 2-3 ohms, 0 would be the best reading. You have to do this test with the balls in place since the weight of the balls should activate the switch, your finger has more force than the ball, so the angle of the trip wires is important. To test the switch under the red plastic piece, you have to touch the ends of the leaf switch at the solder points while closing the switch, or placing the ball in position to close the switch.

Try going back to the original MPU. Also contact Alltek for tech assistance. They have great customer service.

#216 33 days ago

Oh, to answer your question about the MPU LED, yes it will go dim after the initial 7 flashes. Are the voltage LED's lit after boot. This may sound trivial but did you connect the ground strap from the cabinet to the ground screw on the bottom center of the backbox? Also does your line cord have a proper ground plug?

#217 33 days ago
Quoted from Lovef2k:

Oh, to answer your question about the MPU LED, yes it will go dim after the initial 7 flashes. Are the voltage LED's lit after boot. This may sound trivial but did you connect the ground strap from the cabinet to the ground screw on the bottom center of the backbox? Also does your line cord have a proper ground plug?

I was wondering about that as well about the ground strap.

setting up the ultimate MPU, go through the bookkeeping functions, (button inside the coin door) then press the reset button on the ultimate MPU board to clear that field.

it could be erroneous data in your credit/match display

Under the playfield fuse 1 1/4 = 1.25 Amp & I think it's supposed to be a "slo-blo" or time delay fuse usually come in a pack of 5 good idea mentioned above about a new fuse holder as well

#218 33 days ago
Quoted from chas10e:

I was wondering about that as well about the ground strap.
setting up the ultimate MPU, go through the bookkeeping functions, (button inside the coin door) then press the reset button on the ultimate MPU board to clear that field.
it could be erroneous data in your credit/match display
Under the playfield fuse 1 1/4 = 1.25 Amp & I think it's supposed to be a "slo-blo" or time delay fuse usually come in a pack of 5 good idea mentioned above about a new fuse holder as well

Ground strap check
Proper line cord with earth check

I had a pack of these fuses...says 7a 250v. I purchased them when i had the old rectifier in . (I haven't tried these yet due to uncertainty of the fuse rating)

I can't get into coin door test mode to try to clear them memory due to it crashing after 7 flashes.. is there a way to do this while its booting ?.
Thanks guys

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#219 33 days ago
Quoted from Lovef2k:

Cheers Bro. We love to help here on PS.
Going back to the PF coil fuse. The primary voltage weather 240 or 120V doesn't matter for the fuse voltage rating because the transformer steps the voltages down to the proper voltages needed to run the game. Which for coils is like 43V. Since you manually measured the fuse, it should be ok. I don't think these fuses are vacuum sealed, I could be wrong. The bigger issue here is the fuse holder clips. I always replace them when doing a restore. The clips lose tension and corrode over time. This causes a weak connection, which leads to premature fuse failure and high resistance through the fuse. It's a pain to solder new ones in, unless you have the pf out on a table lying flat upside down.
But, the solenoid fuse weather good or bad will not prevent attract mode if you have all 3 balls at the trough. It will prevent the kickers from operating to release the balls in the Apollo launcher at the start of the game when you first power up.
To measure the switches, use the continuity selector on the VOM if it has one. Test by touching the leads together you should hear a beep sound from the meter. If it doesn't have this feature, set it the lowest ohm scale. A closed switch should read no more than 2-3 ohms, 0 would be the best reading. You have to do this test with the balls in place since the weight of the balls should activate the switch, your finger has more force than the ball, so the angle of the trip wires is important. To test the switch under the red plastic piece, you have to touch the ends of the leaf switch at the solder points while closing the switch, or placing the ball in position to close the switch.
Try going back to the original MPU. Also contact Alltek for tech assistance. They have great customer service.

Cheers dude. Ran out of time today to try anything. Had a kids birthday party to attend with the family . Am off for 4 days on the weekend and ill be able to finish the drive during the day..lol..and fix the pinball during the night hahhah

Roll on the weekend..fri..sat sun mon(bank hols)

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#220 33 days ago

We have a long weekend also. Monday off. So yeah, I guess a time lag fuse is the same as a slo-blo fuse? I never seen that term before. Slo-blo fuses are usually marked MDL on the barrel. But 7A is way to high for the PF fuse. If you can't find a 1.25, you can go to a 1.5. 2A would be stretching it.

I think you're correct about not being able to do self test diag. without attract mode.

I'm at a loss now to why this game won't run. Did you do anything to the lamp driver board? Is J4 lamp driver connected to the speech board? Did you touch anything under the pf , like change any bulbs? It's possible that something under there is shorting against something. Perhaps a lamp socket out of place. Any contact between the lighting circuits to the switch matrix circuit can cause an issue. Did all or most of the switched lamps light up before when game was running? Those few switched lamps that are lighting up and the zeros in the match ball display after the mpu boots is very strange.

The tilt lamp lighting up before is another strange thing. I'm thinking switch matrix problem still. Grasping here, but check the coin door switches. Make sure the credit button is not stuck. Check the leaf blades behind it and make sure there's a gap. Sam with the coin entry switches. Make sure no wires are touching ant metal part of the door. The door is part of the ground circuit and so are the lockdown bar, legs and side rails. Go over the tilt switches again.

#221 33 days ago
Quoted from Lovef2k:

We have a long weekend also. Monday off. So yeah, I guess a time lag fuse is the same as a slo-blo fuse? I never seen that term before. Slo-blo fuses are usually marked MDL on the barrel. But 7A is way to high for the PF fuse. If you can't find a 1.25, you can go to a 1.5. 2A would be stretching it.
I think you're correct about not being able to do self test diag. without attract mode.
I'm at a loss now to why this game won't run. Did you do anything to the lamp driver board? Is J4 lamp driver connected to the speech board? Did you touch anything under the pf , like change any bulbs? It's possible that something under there is shorting against something. Perhaps a lamp socket out of place. Any contact between the lighting circuits to the switch matrix circuit can cause an issue. Did all or most of the switched lamps light up before when game was running? Those few switched lamps that are lighting up and the zeros in the match ball display after the mpu boots is very strange.
The tilt lamp lighting up before is another strange thing. I'm thinking switch matrix problem still. Grasping here, but check the coin door switches. Make sure the credit button is not stuck. Check the leaf blades behind it and make sure there's a gap. Sam with the coin entry switches. Make sure no wires are touching ant metal part of the door. The door is part of the ground circuit and so are the lockdown bar, legs and side rails. Go over the tilt switches again.

Ah ok
Ill look for a smaller amp fuse 1.25
I did lift up the play field when checking some of the non working bulbs.. and some just need to slight rotation and started to work again.
J4 has always been connected to the lamp board and the lamp board hasn't been touched dude

If something is shorting .. what would id be looking for.. break in earth from solder to the lights?... or how to test the sockets?...

Most of the lights were working.. when working on the ones that weren't. .. it was a simple case of swapping the bulb out without much movement to the socket...if a socket has moved (cold solder) could this stop the pinball booting up??... theres a few things ill look this weekend..

My best time is when the kids are in bed and ill work on it in the evenings..

And ill check the gaps on the coin door too..(it has to be something simple)

The tilt switch... are they they the plumb and coin door mechanisms? It was tilting before it stopped booting..like 10 games...then failed to boot altogether

Some one said to cut the caps(no idea what they look like and how many,location as its for home use**i did cut one leg on the plumb cap ) as the game was tilting before it stopped working..

Ill take lots of photos and post my findings...

My led bulbs came today too and the anti flicker kit..

Leds 200 pieces
Anti flicker kit.
And new rubber kit yet to install

Have to get it working
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#222 32 days ago

Yeah that was me that suggested to clip the caps. You did get the one by the plumb bob.

A short could be anything metal that's touching other metal somewhere. If you bent a socket over to change a bulb for example and didn't put it back in position. You could also have a failing diode on the switch matrix that's confusing the game as far as the trough area. What type type of VOM do you have? Does it have a diode test setting?

#223 32 days ago

A friend recently ran into a machine that was missing an insulator on a drop target. It never caused a problem until a lamp was bumped and shorted against the drop target frame. That wouldn't have caused any issues if the insulator was in place.

#224 32 days ago

The capacitors look similar to this:
images(11).jpg

Here's a pic of playfield switch matrix chart from the F2K schematics i downloaded from ipdb.org: 320509757(1).png

The blue arrows are pointing to a couple of the capacitors attached to a couple of switches. Find all the switches with the capacitor symbol (the curved line on left/vertical line to the right symbol that the blue arrows are pointing to) and clip a leg off the cap at each one. Note: not all switches will have capacitors on them. They're basically there to allow certain switches to detect fast hits. Sometimes when they fail, they can cause weird behavior elsewhere. On any games of this age, i replace all the caps for reliability. Most games have 5-10 of them on various switches under the playfield.

Unfortunately, the caps may not be the problem here...still probably wouldn't hurt to clip them for now and replace them when possible.

#225 32 days ago

Cheers guys!!
I got my work cut out for the weekend then!
Thank you gentleman
Your all Legends ..Legends i tell you!!

Big love in this chat right here

Right..ill take photos and post my findings when i get a chance

#226 32 days ago

Btw, when you're ready to replace the caps, you'll want 0.047uf/100v ceramic disk caps. Like these: https://www.greatplainselectronics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=CCD-0.047uF-100V

You may find the replacements are considerably smaller than the original ones--nothing to worry about! Be sure to take pics so you remember which solder lugs/wires the caps attach to.

#228 32 days ago
Quoted from Supersunny76:

and Q17 lit up....

I 'm late to this party and need to catch up, or try to. Or at least look I'm trying to. If I am repeating anything already discusses, apologies. Frunch is here so you are in good hands.

1) Connector J1 on the the rectifier board is your lights. The read and white are the GI lights. The blues are feature lights and the blue/white is flippers. Try disconnecting J1 to isolate you don't have any shorted lights.

2) Q-17 on the SDU has Orange/Red wire on the J5 connector at pin 7 located at lower right of the SDU. Pull pin #7 from the J5 connector and see what happens. The wire on the other side is a yellow/white wire on J4-11. That is the small 12 pin connector on right hand side of the SDU. So pull the Y/W at pin 11 on connector J4. This should completely take Q-17 and all of its circuitry out of the equation. No promises. See what happens.

3) You mentioned about having to reach all the way over to get to the connectors on the left hand side. All of your wire harnesses are in clusters. Mark your connectors so you know how they go back. Disconnect all the connectors for one cluster of wires and let that cluster drop into the cabinet. Lift your play field, prop it up, and drag that cluster of wires over to the side and re-pin all of the pins you need to re-pin. Then reverse the procedure and reconnect the connectors. It is much easier on the back.

Most of the connectors can only locate to one set of pins on the boards so they are not too hard to figure out how reconnect. However, there are a couple of connectors that you can mis-locate by a couple of pins and plug them to the wrong connecter but if you do that you will be seeing a couple of open pins.

4) I can't find my road map, but each connector is labeled on the boards. J1, J2, J3, J4, and J5. Each connector on the boards in labeled with how many pins are on the connector. 1-12, 1-15, 1-17, etc. The pin numbers can be left to right: 1-12 or right to left 12-1. They can be labeled up to down or down to up. 1 on top 12 on bottom or 12 on top 1 on bottom.

Hope this helps.

#229 30 days ago

Check under play field slam switch. Maybe the diode is bad or loose.

#230 29 days ago
Quoted from Lovef2k:

Oh, to answer your question about the MPU LED, yes it will go dim after the initial 7 flashes. Are the voltage LED's lit after boot. This may sound trivial but did you connect the ground strap from the cabinet to the ground screw on the bottom center of the backbox? Also does your line cord have a proper ground plug?

flight 2k is a special case with the MPU led. Because of how lamp strobe two (connected to led) is used with the speech card the led is dark in attract and game mode. You may notice it flicker when speech is played.

4 weeks later
#231 1 day ago

Hiya guys!
Sorry I haven't post anything is because literally haven't touched my pinball as summers here...

Congrats on the new home lovef2k!
Hahah that drive finally got done.. sweat and tears i can tell you..took a month of people coming down and collecting it soil!

Had the beetle to work on now too.. need to finish as am riding to work at the mo..and british winters a awful.. as much winters are.. so need is up and running...

Then others jobs like today..missus picked up some welsh dressers and i had a great idea to paint them and they came up a treat! I literally finished them both today.

Works been busy too and started to body build again after a 6 month break. Hour session before work.. so shattered when i get home to work on the pinball.. but.. am going to get it done.. i need to read this thread to find out what i need to do lol..

Hope i get it working again.. gutted its giving me problems but eh..

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#232 1 day ago
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#233 1 day ago

Good stuff! Painting old furniture is popular in the states as well. The distressed look is also very popular right now...

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