Flight 2000
Stern Electronics, 1980You're currently viewing posts by Pinsider vec-tor.
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Quoted from Inkochnito:How do you think he is going to do that?
All solenoid transistors are used.
You could change the coin lockout to be used as knocker, but all others are used in the game.[quoted image]
Quoted from Robotworkshop:Was going to use the coin lockout driver. I think there will be two versions. One that can use a knocker instead of coin lockout and another leaving it alone and keep the sound.
Or use the lamp 2N5060 #31 to a MOC3011... to a solenoid circuitry. Etc,etc,etc.
Quoted from Ericpinballfan:I get 7 dongs/beeps when I turn it on, does this mean anything?
It's an audio cue for the l.e.d. on the cpu board.
Quoted from Ericpinballfan:So they all do this?
Thank you.
It's kind of nice to here the "ping" when booting.
Bally on the other hand... ( " ------ click " ).
It is the plus side of stern having direct control of the snd board.
Quoted from RonniN:Any tips for repairing this, without buying a new plastic set. [quoted image][quoted image]
There was a service bulletin... for adding two wire forms in that area,
in order to keep the plastic pieces from breaking.
Quoted from slochar:Here's the way I fixed it (although you see that my repro pieces aren't broken.... yet....)
Yes, I know the glass is dusty....[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]
YUP! That's the ticket.
Quoted from Reaper802:I'll be working on Fusion 360 models of the inlane guides this week. I did them once in Sketchup but the conversion to get them to a dxf file did something funky when the CNC cut the stainless. Fusion 360 should solve that issue.
I remember an operator back in the early 1980's trying to order the metal
ball guides that were used on Stern's Split Second as a repair for Fight 2000.
He freaked out over the cost to order the part... told the distributor at that time
to shove it.
Quoted from Lovef2k:All of the GI lamps on f2k are low. Don't know why. Maybe to keep them from melting the plastics? They are a pain to change the bulbs.
Most of the time it had to do with conditions at the time.
Fight 2000 has plastic pieces that are low to the main playfield...
So instead of having multiple sizes... economically it made sense to use
"one size fits all" approach.
On the other hand, they had a plethora of leftover lamps from the EM days
that they had to get rid of.
Quoted from Lovef2k:Bally used particle board for the cabinet back and back box rear panesl starting around 1980.
1970's EM games. Management... cut costs here and there...
A cheaper suppler here and there... saves money down the line.
Gottlieb games did what the could to try and keep the quality up...
But like the other manufactures at the time... ( mid 1980's )
they reduced themselves to cheap particle board wood cabinets.
Buy this time, manufactures did not want their games to last.
I remember Steve Ritchie having to fight Williams for the VUK assembly
on F14... Management wanted a cheaper metal assembly. Etc,etc,etc.
On my Fight 2000, I add the metal pins in the trough area so as to make the balls
move in a single line... No lofting left or right. It worked for a longtime on route.
Quoted from mof:? got pics ?
I would have to get the machine out of storage.
But I believe I used two steel pins to make sure the ball
moves in a straight line over the wire forms.
The pins are mounted on the upper right side so
the balls can use the left wall as a guide.
Again, the objective was to keep the balls from any chance
of bouncing/lofting left to right against the rollover wire actuators.
No sneaking around the outhole switches.
1/8" or less, 3/32" max clearance (approx) from,
wall + ball "==" steel pin.
You would have to set the game up with the three balls in the outhole.
Then take a steel pin and test fit next to the middle ball/switch3rd ball... and find
the best position for the ball to travel freely and yet not float about the top of the switch.
If I can get to the game and dig it out of storage I well do my best to get a picture
of the outhole...
Quoted from chas10e:when the ball reaches the heel of the flipper it gives a little hop instead of continuing to travel smoothly.
That is because the ball hits the vertical leg of the wire form.
If the wire form is lower to just bellow the center point of the ball
then the "hop" is eliminated do to the fact the ball would be riding
on the complete length of the horizontal wire plane.
Quoted from cottonm4:Here is flipper hop. It does not refer to the ball jumping over the flipper and draining. Thats' a different animal. Flipper hop is the ball being pushed up out of the flipper's reach.
See how the right hand inlane guide is below the flipper base circle. This pin had been in a kid's basement for 20 years. I don't know how they managed to play it because making any kind of contact with the ball was near impossible.
[quoted image]
The fix is to get a piece of plastic or a piece of sheet metal and drill a .93 hole. Then place the ball guide tip in to the hole and slide the plastic and the guide into position, tape the plastic to the play field to maintain position, remove the guide and drill the .093 hole. End of flipper hop problem.
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I have never seen that kind of misalignment before... that is bad.
Quoted from Completist:I’m interested in the proper use of these wire guides on f2k. Neither of my pf’s looked correct, as the one end is under the plastic whereas the one at the flipper is way out. So it creates this ramp. If i use the dimples which i know are only suggestions it would do the dame thing as in these pics.[quoted image][quoted image]
Quoted from slochar:That is correct according to the service bulletin. It's the way I did mine on the swap as well, it's very slightly up from the plastic, and I have no flipper hop (I actually installed the guides last, to ensure this.)
There is a VERY slight adjustment available on the flipper mechs, normally you want the bushing centered exactly in the hole, but for flipper hop you can move it down (You have to fill the holes or rotate the assembly to bite into new wood, adjusting the bat later on). I use a spare coil sleeve to help center the flipper mech in the hole.
I did mine so as the wire form just peeps out from the tip of the plastic.
It is almost in parallel to the plastic piece itself.
Quoted from Completist:Agree i don’t trust Dimples at all, on either the top or bottom side. So what i want to determine is what the transition is supposed to look like. The same with the flipper batt orientation to the inlane guides. On a Williams you simply line them up so the batts are parallel with the guides. But on F2K there are pins that line up the tips which are a dropped way down. Never looked right but its a classic stern, not a williams. And maybe that orientation is required to hit the shots? Sweeping the three bank target is something i want to be able to do for example.
Do you have an OEM playfield?
The flippers are pitched slightly down.
Look at ipdb for Stern Flight 2000.
Quoted from Completist:I have two populated pf’s (one from the game). I’m repopulating a CPR i picked up a few years ago. This is my second F2K project. Yes all of them have pins that the flippers rest on, which had them pitched down (i prob exaggerate when i say way down lol). Always seemed odd to me. Not sure i’ll put the pins back in on the new one. There are no reference marks (dimples) for them to worry about seeing.
O.K. All I know is that the left flipper has to make the right spinner shot.
If the flippers are raised it would be very difficult for the left flipper to make
that shot. ( you would have to be use the tip of the flipper ).
Note: when scanning objects to reproduce I always
thought it would be safer to scan the objects left to right,
right to left, top to bottom, and bottom to top.
Then, stitch all images together to eliminate all variables
from the scans.
Quoted from Jodannar:The b Light in my left Inlane is Locked in and I can’t determine why. All other controlled lamps are fine.
Try a bad SCR.
Quoted from tyking:Looks like I’ll be starting with the wire in the pic. Do I need to change the white plastic connector piece b/c a wire already burned up in side it? Also, what’s the deal with soldering and crimping? Do you do both, or choose between the two? And also, is my pin reusable or should I put a new on? And also, any chance this wire is the reason the voice doesn’t work (J1 on rectifier board I think)
I know that’s a lot of questions for one wire! But I’m a total noobie and this would be my first time soldering.
Also , still one week in and ripped a huge game this morning for over 3mill so I’m ready to put the game down for a bit to do some repairs!
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]
Note: Too permanently fix burnt connectors to the GI circuity, best practice is to remove the
----- GI wires from the two main connectors [ playfield & backbox ]
-----1) add a heavy duty fuse block to side of transformer / bridge distribution board.
-----2) add heavy jumper wires from transformer GI tabs to fuse block.
-----3) add Molex .093 series to freed GI wires, as a quick disconnect.
-----4) solder jumper wires / color matched wires from other end of .093 series to fuse block.
-----5) add 5 amp slow-blow fuses to fuse block.
-----6) Stern GI should be permanently fixed... enjoy!
Quoted from tyking:Does it look like someone has already added that fuse box? I see what looks like a jumper cable and its connected to the transformer. Thanks[quoted image]
I did mine back in the 1980's...
The fuse block was heavy duty and was mounted between the base of the rectifier board
and base mounting screws. Kind of where your picture of your speaker is...
I think I used 16 or 14 gauge wire off the transformer.
I never had a problem with the GI sense.
Quoted from Lovef2k:Thanks for posting these but I should have been more clear, I was referring to the arm A-157-1 and the pivot A-143. I'm not sure which part wears out more but there will be a lot of side to side motion (slop) when severely worn.
I did a mod on kicker assemblies.
1) File down the round housing to take a flat washer.
2) Epoxy the washer to the kicker housing.
3) Reassemble kicker and fulcrum bracket.
This process helped keep the kicker assembly more or less vertical.
Quoted from Lovef2k:The new coils usually come with diodes pre-installed and also come with a new sleeve. I don't remember for sure but there should also be a spring washer installed between the coil and coil bracket.
Note: OEM Bally bobbins are slightly shorter than repro bobbins.
------ hence they use the spring washer.
Quoted from emsrph:Mock-up of double layer lane guides using old and new pieces. Could only see what one side looks like. Haven’t melted the bells in yet and don’t have 8 more for the other side, or the longer screws...
I liked the ones I’ve seen with clear layer on the bottom. With both layers printed seems like too much?
Those that have added a layer- does it obscure the ball coming down the in-lane? Would you do it again or leave single layer?
Are clear lane guides available or would have to make my own?
Thx
[quoted image]
Back in the day, I did two F2K and for the return lanes I sandwiched two pieces together.
First was a cut clear and then topped with the artwork piece. So it was more or less
a thick plastic type return lane.
Quoted from slochar:Probably ok spec wise but I dislike screw terminals. Solder + heat shrink for mine.
One could add four solder lugs to the screw terminals.
Quoted from cottonm4:Here is mine.
[quoted image]
[quoted image]
You are missing the thick style washers that fit under the plastic
behind the D/T.
Quoted from tyking:I guess it’s true that they just don’t make ‘em like they used to. Is this a gorilla glue fix, or can I solder the plates back together? What do you think? Thanks in advance.
[quoted image][quoted image]
Spot weld - repaint - redecal.
Quoted from Robotworkshop:Is the Flight 2000 supposed to have a metal channel in front of the neck for the playfield glass?
Quoted from Robotworkshop:My early Williams Blackout has a metal bar and I think my other games do too. That's why I though it was odd that Flight 2000 didn't have one and I thought someone may have removed and lost it.
I guess Stern didn't think it was needed and left it off.
O.K. One needs to go back in time...
When game manufactures are making money... they can afford to put quality into there products.
Top earning game manufactures from the 1970's --- early 1980's
#1 Bally, games made money they where on a role.
Close behind,
#2 Williams, same as above but they had a few stinkers.
#3 Gottlieb, they lost being top ranking game manufacturer and making what ever they can to stay afloat.
--- They were bought by Columbia Pictures and they put money into the company...
#4 Stern, they used like Bally system... but quality was crap... cost cutting everything.
#5 Game Plan, same as above...
List below, basically, have one it wonders.
#6 Zaccaria, made a quick splash... hard to get metric parts... odd displays...
#7 Atari.... some odd parts and odd system.
#8 All other odd manufacturers, cocktail tables etc.etc.etc.
----------------------------------------------------------------
Stern only has a hand full of really good games that made money.
They were broke... thus Seeberg manufacturing bought them out.
The entire coin op industry collapsed at the end of 1982.
Top three manufacturers above would survive... others bowed out and closed their doors.
Quoted from DanMarino:Thanks emsrph. This is helpful.
I am trying to figure out what is causing the Second Stage Go light to be on constantly on the play field down by the 5 drop targets.
This is my first pinball machine and I am new to reading the wire diagrams. From what I can tell, the Second Stage Go is J2, Pin 5. If I follow that to the light board, it is Q52 and R52 that are controlling the light, is this correct?
If I am understanding PinWiki, then the Q52 is bad, is this correct?
Is there any sort of diagnostic test I can do on the Q52 2NSO60 to make sure this is the problem?
Next, how difficult is this for me to replace? I'm guessing the light board needs to be removed from the machine, then a soldering iron used to remove the Q52 2NS060 and install a new one? This sounds kinda fun and a little scary. haha. Does Great Plains Electronics sell them?
Thanks a bunch.
Tom[quoted image][quoted image]
I use a paper clip attached to some spare wire.
I then put one end of the wire on ground.
I then remove one of the lamp output connectors and "ground" each pin using the paper clip.
I check to see if the correct faulty lamp light up.
I now know which pin connector position, and wire color, to faulty lamp.
Then one can back trace to faulty SCR. 2N5060 or MCR106-1.
Along with the schematics to double check.
Quoted from Lovef2k:Bally 70's and 80's lamp sockets are no better, I think with age, the insulating material at the base of the socket dry-rots and shrinks causing the socket to become loose.
Note: The lamp sockets that I have had to repair have the same problem.
------ Lamp sockets become loose from the brass eyelet inner clinched lip
------ breaking. Most lamp sockets can be repaired by reclinching the brass
------ eyelet. However, every now and then, the eyelet has to be replaced.
Here is how I fix old lamp sockets:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/lamp-socket-repair-non-solder-technique-#post-6525453
Here is when the lamp socket falls apart:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/lamp-socket-repair-part-two#post-5795366
Quoted from mof:Now I wish I had a translucent apron so I could watch carefully over 20 games until it happens again.
Any thoughts as to what is happening when it fails like this?
Guess I'll have to remove the apron, and try to make it happen again.
You need to add two pins to the edge/tip of the top guide wall.
Make it so the ball can move past the pins...against the bottom wall without hanging up.
Note: you can only cap the +43 volt circuit to a certain point.
Till the voltage gets so smoothed out that the game stops functioning.
Zero crossing, uses the +43 volts to turn on and off the solenoids/lamps/interrupt timing.
Quoted from clodpole:Are you saying it'd be better if we only put caps on the upper left sling? Originally, according to the schematic, our game had caps only on the upper right sling. They got removed before the game got to us.
You can add switch caps.
Stern had switch caps on all slingshot switches.
Just like play_pinball said.
The problem arises with adding caps to the +43 volt flipper circuitry.
Quoted from DanMarino:I haven't looked into this yet guys, but was wondering on your quick suggestions for what could be going on with my Flight 2000. My son and I played a two player game on Saturday night. My son was Player 1 and I Player 2. We played a few games and we both got 2 balls locked in the ball locker mechanism. For some reason the Second Stage Go light did not illuminate for my son. However, the Second Stage Go light did work for me. My son also played some single player games and Second Stage Go light continued to not work for him. Any thoughts about why it would not work for Player 1 only?
Thanks,
Tom
1) Put game in lamp test.
Does lamp work?
2) Check ball walker switch... is it clean?
2a) does the balls hangup on any part of the walker assembly?
Quoted from JethroP:Yes, but was thinking 1/16" narrower. I don't have an old glass to compare with, and this wide body is different dimensions than the Paragon or Future Spa I have. I'll probably go with the Marcos dimensions if I don't get a confirmation from anyone here who owns a Flight 2000.
Watch out for the length dimension of the glass. One guy had the playfield glass too long
and cutup the back neck to get the glass to fit the cabinet.
Quoted from JethroP:Just ordered the glass from local shop. Tempered clear 24-1/2" x 45-5/8" x 3/16 with seamed edges. $97 including tax.
Please till us how the glass fits.
I will be keeping my fingers crossed that all goes well.
Quoted from slochar:The trough switches are finicky as well, did you test with balls or fingers?
So true...One needs to use all three balls to test the micro switches, of the outhole layout.
Quoted from gleegum:Removed those coils and fuse is not blowing anymore
Replaced the diode with 1N4007 but it keeps blowing the transistor.
Is the diode the right way in my pic?
Could the coil be bad even if the readings are ok?
How is the hot voltage [+43 volts] attached to the coil?
Did you manually test the coil before adding the drive wire?
Quoted from gleegum:Hi, just noticed that my Flight 2K has the rear support brackets under the playfield missing. Are they the same as the front ones? Where can I get a pair of these?
[quoted image][quoted image]
Fabricate the part.
"Are they the same as the front ones?"
Answer: yes, I do believe the parts are the same.
Quoted from Kevlar:I joined the club this week with a refurbed machine ( new playfield, plastics, displays, backglass, boards etc ) ..
[quoted image]
It does have an issue I'm struggling with though, the upper left sling randomly fires while flipping. It's not a sensitive switch adjustment issue, the gaps are huge. I've replaced the diode on that coil, and the diode on the switch pair. I've also snipped off the cap on the switch pair to eliminate that. None have made any difference. If I machine gun flip either flipper the coil will eventually fire. Can anyone point me in the right direction please?
The problem is most likely from the software. Bally and Stern system have two software
routines running at the same time.
1) One routine decodes the switches and scores points....etc.
2) A second routines is used to fire the coils... it is a quick fast response
-- thread. Any noise from the flippers fluctuating +50 volts zero crossing
-- will make the playfield coils fire random.
-- However there should be no points scored.
3) I was hoping someone would add a second +50 volt bridge to Isolate
-- the flippers from the rest of the games coils.
3a) Or have some kind of voltage noise block setup for the flippers.
Quoted from Kevlar:I joined the club this week with a refurbed machine ( new playfield, plastics, displays, backglass, boards etc ) ..
[quoted image]
It does have an issue I'm struggling with though, the upper left sling randomly fires while flipping. It's not a sensitive switch adjustment issue, the gaps are huge. I've replaced the diode on that coil, and the diode on the switch pair. I've also snipped off the cap on the switch pair to eliminate that. None have made any difference. If I machine gun flip either flipper the coil will eventually fire. Can anyone point me in the right direction please?
I am finishing up a Bally project that has a lot of noise in the +43 volts coil circuity.
1) Manually raised the flipper assembly [open up E.O.S. switch ].
1a)Repeatedly press the cabinet flipper buttons. Still a lot of pops and clicks coming
from the sound speaker also with random kicker coils occasionally firing.
My solution was to borrow from Williams electronics...
Here, I use two .1mfd 500 volt ceramic capacitors.
IMG_0001[2] (resized).JPG
and install the capacitors to the cabinet flipper buttons.
IMG_0002[1] (resized).JPG
Finally, after reinstalling the cabinet flipper switches retested the game's problems
as above.
All sound issues and coil random spike firings have been abated, but still present,
but infrequent.
Quoted from A1k71:Restoration in progress.
Found those three holes under the apron (left side). Am I missing anything?
[quoted image]
Looks like flipper bracket screw holes.
The screws are too long and pierced the top of the playfield.
Quoted from DanMarino:The new spinner is missing those plastic spinner arm bushing things though.
Plastic spinner washers, they help keep the wire actuator from binding on the outside
"hang stem" part of the spinner.
Quoted from brzezicki:hah. I"m just getting into the pre 2000 games, really enjoying the older ones though they have a whole different aspect tto their play, don't get me wrong, I also love the new titles such as godzilla, JP etc.. but the old games have a charm of their own. it's odd because I initially hated the old games when I started playing, but they've really, really grown on me.
That said my flight 2000 is instantly blowing the fuse near the flipper (underside of playfield) as soon as I lock two balls. anyone have any idea? I'm not even sure what's supposed to happen with the mechanics when two balls lock. it's just two balls, not the actually multiball release (does the first ball shoot to the second slot when that happens? if anyone knows please let me know so I can zero in my troubleshooting.
-thanks
brian
Check your solenoids and make sure you have the correct fuse value 1¼ Amp Slo-Blo.
Quoted from Charles_Kline:I'm starting to work on the Flight 2000 I picked up recently.
If anyone has a spinner holder/cross bracket let me know. It spins great (surprisingly) as is but I can' leave it like that.
[quoted image]
The flipper are pretty rough, it looks like the whole flipper mechs were replaced with 6803 era flipper mech. I think I'll order whole new classic Stern mechs from pinball life.
[quoted image]
I'm assuming the flipper bats are supposed to be the smooth bally style that was used on Meteor, correct?
You have :
1) Bally spinner sans the two mini washers.
2) Gottlieb flipper shoe bats.
Quoted from DanMarino:My dirty orange needs some help. Making some progress on black, dirty green, dirty blue, dirty orange, and dirty purple.
[quoted image]
From the paint supply store I used to get my paint the colorist told me
that the colors Stern used has a very slit pinch of black added.
This is to help intensify the colors.
So, with the orange paint I used, I mixed and experimented to get the right dried shade.
Quoted from JONESDS:Quick question on flippers for this game. I typically adjust all my flippers so they are lined up with the inlane guides, regardless of manufacturer or era of game. However, noticing some brick targets on the 5-bank drops and wondering if this alignment could be contributing to that.
Anyone else having bricking problems with flippers aligned this way?
I would make sure the rods and flat D/T brackets are not warn out.
I have add nyliner bushings to the main shaft.. It makes the targets
have a very up-down type action, slightly on the stiff side.
Quoted from Charles_Kline:What post is supposed to be under the spinner bracket? I’m guessing it’s not meant to sit crooked like that.
[quoted image]
[quoted image]
You are missing the thick cut washers that fit behind the drop target posts
and under the plastic pieces.
Quoted from Lovef2k:I'm pretty sure it was only used on F2K.
Iron Maiden has the same style mech located on the bottom playfield.
Whether it is the same as Fight 2000 I do not know.
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