(Topic ID: 124724)

Flight 2000 Club - members and fans welcome!

By Snux

7 years ago


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  • 1,938 posts
  • 122 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 5 days ago by clodpole
  • Topic is favorited by 69 Pinsiders

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There are 1,938 posts in this topic. You are on page 35 of 39.
#1701 8 months ago

If the tops of the drop targets are below the surface of the playfield when the targets are fully down, a slow rolling ball can/will get stuck. I've had success in raising the targets up, when in the resting position, so that the tops of the targets are level with the playfield. You can do this by putting a shim (tape, thin PETG plastic, etc) between the bottom of the target link arm and the reset bar (or wherever it rests). On some Bally's, specifically the '84 EBD, the target height is actually adjustable (great feature).

#1702 8 months ago

Install a second rubber or shim under the targets

#1703 8 months ago
Quoted from A1k71:

Looking for suggestions on how to solve this frequent situation (ball stuck between the side drop targets)…..
[quoted image][quoted image]

Here's what I did; it's more complicated than the previous suggestions, but it works reliably. I bought plastic stock from a hobby shop:IMG_0278 (resized).JPG
...filed it to a wedge shape and glued it on the uphill side of the lower two drop targets (the right side in this photo, just under the cap of the target).IMG_0275 (resized).JPG
Now, when the ball hits the uphill edge of the drop targets, it just rolls off downhill.

#1704 8 months ago

Today issue:
Displays are showing random numbers, but in test mode and while playing a game all is correct.
Also game is set to give an extra ball at 500K 1M and when beat the record, but is not doing it.
Any ideas??

20211130_171855 (resized).jpg
#1705 8 months ago

Clear all your audits and reset the adjustments. Make sure battery backup is good.

#1706 8 months ago
Quoted from A1k71:

Today issue:
Displays are showing random numbers, but in test mode and while playing a game all is correct.
Also game is set to give an extra ball at 500K 1M and when beat the record, but is not doing it.
Any ideas??
[quoted image]

As mentioned there could be random garbage stored in th battery backed RAM. Should try resetting each of those settings. If the problem persists then will need to do some troubleshooting.

I’d start with the basics. How is the power and voltages? Is the driver board original and has the driver board been gone over? Typically the main 5V capacitor will need to be replaced as well as a few ground mods to the driver and a 5V jumper. Once gone through the original boards are great. Next I would check the MPU. Maybe a failing PIA or RAM chip.

It can all be fixed and once you work the bugs out they can play well for quite a while.

#1707 8 months ago
Quoted from Robotworkshop:

I’d start with the basics. How is the power and voltages? Is the driver board original and has the driver board been gone over? Typically the main 5V capacitor will need to be replaced as well as a few ground mods to the driver and a 5V jumper. Once gone through the original boards are great. Next I would check the MPU. Maybe a failing PIA or RAM chip.

Just replaced the rectifier board by a technician and this issue started appearing

#1708 8 months ago
Quoted from A1k71:

Just replaced the rectifier board by a technician and this issue started appearing

That board is responsible for some but not all of the voltages. Some are done on the driver. Was it replaced with another used board or new one? There are several new replacement options. Some are better than others but most should work fine in that game. That particular board is often burned up on many machines and getting an aftermarket is usually the best for that one. I usually prefer original boards for the rest. If the displays stopped working after replacing that board did they double check their work and verify all the voltages are correct?

Another thought is if the battery is going bad on the MPU or if it has a small memory cap and game was off too long you can lose the settings and get garbage data in there. A picture of the MPU will help.

#1709 8 months ago
Quoted from Robotworkshop:

That board is responsible for some but not all of the voltages. Some are done on the driver. Was it replaced with another used board or new one? There are several new replacement options. Some are better than others but most should work fine in that game. That particular board is often burned up on many machines and getting an aftermarket is usually the best for that one. I usually prefer original boards for the rest. If the displays stopped working after replacing that board did they double check their work and verify all the voltages are correct?
Another thought is if the battery is going bad on the MPU or if it has a small memory cap and game was off too long you can lose the settings and get garbage data in there. A picture of the MPU will help.

Both Lamps a d Solenoids boards are new by ALLTEK .
Also installed Nvram

#1710 8 months ago

here are the pics all all the boards:

20211130_192956 (resized).jpg20211130_193000 (resized).jpg20211130_193002 (resized).jpg
#1711 8 months ago
Quoted from A1k71:

here are the pics all all the boards:[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

Your driver should be fine but on the MPU I see a couple issues:

- One of the EPROM chips is uncovered. They should always be covered as too much exposure to light can start to erase the data on them. If even one bit flips in the wrong spot it can make the game act weird or not work at all. I’d want to verify ROM chips are all ok.

- The big one is the 6810 RAM chip. That is the AMI brand and many of those are known to fail. I’d pull it, test it, and probably replace it even if it checks ok since there have been many failures of AMI chips in the past.

The MPU his the correct MPU-200 for your machine. With the sticker it looks like it may have been in a Big Game at one time. Also looks like one PIA chip was replaced. When I get in one of those boards for repairs I always pull those and test them and if ok put them back in and test again in the board.

1 week later
#1712 8 months ago

Just got this PF back. Time to assemble!

20211207_164800 (resized).jpg20211207_164826 (resized).jpg
1 week later
#1713 8 months ago

My backglass has all the red faded in the letters, and after having all red up there I didnt think it looked good. I think the blue looks better!
Waiting on Yoppsicles to get here and then do all the inserts then time to test!

20211214_192503 (resized).jpgSnapchat-733778827 (resized).jpg
#1714 8 months ago

I note your blue plastics. Mine are orange. I have not found out why…

0A2917EF-D4AA-46E0-8E66-F0E27621182F (resized).jpeg
#1715 8 months ago

You guys have amazing playfields. Mine is beat and worn out. One day I need to swap in a new playfield.
Those orange plastics are wild. I think the blue/purple plastics are standard from the factory.

#1716 8 months ago

Interesting orange plastics I've never seen that!

#1717 7 months ago

Can anyone tell me where this connector and the green ground connection goes? Thanks!

image (resized).jpg
#1718 7 months ago
16402265870418435456730779349146 (resized).jpg
#1720 7 months ago

My F2K has been working fine since I got it a few years ago, however now I'm having an issue with my countdown drop targets. They continuously drop in sequence, which to me would indicate one of the inlane/outlane rollovers is shorted, but there is plenty of gap between the contacts. Are there other switches that spot the lit countdown drops? Could this be a board problem maybe? Not sure where to look next.

#1721 7 months ago
Quoted from Ky1ebasa:

My F2K has been working fine since I got it a few years ago, however now I'm having an issue with my countdown drop targets. They continuously drop in sequence, which to me would indicate one of the inlane/outlane rollovers is shorted, but there is plenty of gap between the contacts. Are there other switches that spot the lit countdown drops? Could this be a board problem maybe? Not sure where to look next.

I would run the switch test in self diagnostic mode. All balls removed and drop targets reset. I think it's 5 presses of self test button inside coin door. Manual explains the process.

#1722 7 months ago

I have fixed a long hated problem with my F2K, what I call faultiball. Occasionally the ball walker would randomly advance a locked ball/balls which would result in two balls in play and once one dropped out it would advance to next ball or player while another ball was still in play. Drove me crazy. Anyway i dropped the top rollover switch at the entrance to the ball walker to inspect. The heavier metal blade separating the leaf switches was bent down almost touching the blade the rollover moves. Also the wires for the resistor and capacitor on the switch were crossed over each other as to almost be touching as well. I moved those wires apart and reshaped the switch leafs apart from each other to what seemed appropriate. Now after thorough testing the walker mech is behaving perfectly. Finally!!

#1723 7 months ago
Quoted from swillie:

I have fixed a long hated problem with my F2K, what I call faultiball. Occasionally the ball walker would randomly advance a locked ball/balls which would result in two balls in play and once one dropped out it would advance to next ball or player while another ball was still in play. Drove me crazy. Anyway i dropped the top rollover switch at the entrance to the ball walker to inspect. The heavier metal blade separating the leaf switches was bent down almost touching the blade the rollover moves. Also the wires for the resistor and capacitor on the switch were crossed over each other as to almost be touching as well. I moved those wires apart and reshaped the switch leafs apart from each other to what seemed appropriate. Now after thorough testing the walker mech is behaving perfectly. Finally!!

Good find! On my Flight 2000 I found someone had replaced a switch on the walker and even though it had a diode on the new switch they had soldered to the wrong terminals bypassing the diode. Corrected that gremlin before selling it.

#1724 7 months ago

Happy New Year! I recently purchase F2K #3621 from an older gentleman back in the hills about 30 minutes from my house. Games are pretty scarce here in North West Montana so we have to grab them when they infrequently appear. Anyway, I have been reading this page and my game has a lot of the same issues. It boots and plays, but there is a lot of paint touchup and mylar on the playfield 100_6228 (resized).JPGand the backglass is starting to flake100_6201 (resized).JPG Major restoration is probably beyond my skills so the granddaughters and I will play it as is. They like it so far since it is easy to understand and they both like space themes. Other issues I need to work on are the 5 bank drop targets do not reset correctly, not all 5 will stay up. The test button inside the coin door does not function. The previous owner installed all LED bulbs and all new rubbers so it is ok to play. I replaced the 3 pinballs, cleaned and waxed the playfield, and replaced the leg levelers so far.
Out with the old:100_6282 (resized).JPG 100_6274 (resized).JPG
In with the new:100_6268 (resized).JPG100_6281 (resized).JPG

Now I see why I don't have the original BeeHive shooter housing. Someone installed a generic Bally style shooter.100_6277 (resized).JPG
Lots more work to do.

#1725 7 months ago

And the previous owner installed Pinscore displays!100_6202 (resized).JPG
There are four player 7 digit displays and one 6 digit display for the credit/match.
However, the 6 digit display for the credit/match look misaligned when the backglass is installed. The digits are not centered in the two windows.100_6197 (resized).JPG I swapped in one of the 7 digit displays and it looks perfect with the backglass installed100_6273 (resized).JPG
Anyone know if I am crazy or which display should be in credit/match slot?
And it looks like the carrier trays are mounted behind the panel not on the front.

#1726 7 months ago
Quoted from pinballlarry1:

And the previous owner installed Pinscore displays![quoted image]
There are four player 7 digit displays and one 6 digit display for the credit/match.
However, the 6 digit display for the credit/match look misaligned when the backglass is installed. The digits are not centered in the two windows.[quoted image] I swapped in one of the 7 digit displays and it looks perfect with the backglass installed[quoted image]
Anyone know if I am crazy or which display should be in credit/match slot?
And it looks like the carrier trays are mounted behind the panel not on the front.

6 digit for the match/ball display. Stern games have the tray mounted on the back because the Stern displays are wider than bally. You can move the trays to the front side.

#1727 7 months ago
Quoted from pinballlarry1:

And the previous owner installed Pinscore displays![quoted image]
There are four player 7 digit displays and one 6 digit display for the credit/match.
However, the 6 digit display for the credit/match look misaligned when the backglass is installed. The digits are not centered in the two windows.[quoted image] I swapped in one of the 7 digit displays and it looks perfect with the backglass installed[quoted image]
Anyone know if I am crazy or which display should be in credit/match slot?
And it looks like the carrier trays are mounted behind the panel not on the front.

Here's my game with Pinscore displays and a CPR back glass. As you can see my match digits don't line up with the window. I usually have the match feature turned off since it's home use. There is a little room to move the tray to the right, just shy of a 1/4 inch. You can see the holes in the lamp panel go all the way through so you can easily move the tray to the front side and still remain at the original locations. My player 1 and 2 are cut off at the top. The foam gasket supplied with the displays is sagging due to age. I never compared the windows on the CPR to the original glass, which I don't have any more. The white background of the unused digits annoys me and I should just cover them w black electrical tape.

P1010095 (resized).JPGP1010096 (resized).JPGP1010097 (resized).JPGP1010098 (resized).JPG
#1728 7 months ago

After checking in the instruction manual, the schematic pages showing the displays list all 5 display units as 7 digit units. On my game, the 7 digit display looks much better centered in the two windows in the back glass;
7 digit display:100_6273 (resized).JPG
6 digit display:100_6284 (resized).JPG
Both pictures with the camera lens directly in center of backglass. Powered up game with either display installed, numbers all correct. I too will probably black out the unneeded digit in the credit window. You can actually see the spacing between the digits is wider on the 6 than on the 7 so they both fit on the same width board. Not quite sure why Stern wanted/needed 3 digits showing in the credit window.....
I have all 5 original Stern holder trays:100_6290 (resized).JPG
and they have little if any side to side adjustment available. Moved the 4 player trays to the front and now they are right up near the backglass as I expected.100_6291 (resized).JPG
I assume the previous owner just didn't realize the difference or didn't want to redo it again.

I will definitely put a 7 digit display in the credit/match position.
Does anyone want to trade straight across your 7 digit Pinscore display for my 6 digit display? I will ship mine to you and pay $10 for you to ship a flat rate box back to me.

#1729 7 months ago

I agree the 7 digit seems to fit the backglass credit opening better. The manual though has schematics for both 6 digit and 7 digit displays.

#1730 7 months ago

You are correct that both versions of the display schematic are in the manual. Mine shows the 6-digit version dates to 5-1979 and the 7-digit version is dated 1-1980. I believe that all displays should be 7-digit.
Now onto the general cleanup of that nasty brownish yellow stuff on the outside of the cabinet, spinner decals, and the drop target assemblies.

#1731 7 months ago
Quoted from pinballlarry1:

You are correct that both versions of the display schematic are in the manual. Mine shows the 6-digit version dates to 5-1979 and the 7-digit version is dated 1-1980. I believe that all displays should be 7-digit.
Now onto the general cleanup of that nasty brownish yellow stuff on the outside of the cabinet, spinner decals, and the drop target assemblies.

Should be? Yes maybe. But they actually used a 6 digit for match/ball. Up to 1979 all the scores and match/ball were only 6 digit displays. Until Meteor I think. That's why the manual states that. The original 6 digit display looked fine in these games. Maybe because they are less apparent or the spacing was different.

#1732 7 months ago
Quoted from Lovef2k:

Should be? Yes maybe. But they actually used a 6 digit for match/ball. Up to 1979 all the scores and match/ball were only 6 digit displays. Until Meteor I think. That's why the manual states that. The original 6 digit display looked fine in these games. Maybe because they are less apparent or the spacing was different.

Likely they made the window slightly larger to accommodate if you needed to swap whatever display you had on hand in.

Stern games were 6 digits up to Ali. Meteor, Galaxy, and Ali are the first 3 mpu200 games and they are all 6 digit. Big Game is the first seven digit game, and all stern's games up to the end are 7 digit. Stargazer has some idiosyncrasies with the credit/match display as well.

From a programming standpoint they made a mistake IMO with the memory location of the credit display - the display data has to be split and shifted rather than just saving the credits in a single memory location. Too much copying directly from Bally! It didn't matter on Bally games because the data from nvram always has to be shifted and combined anyway (since the 5101 is a nibble-wide, not byte-wide, device)

#1733 7 months ago

Dug deeper into the Marco website and found the Pinscore hardware set available the $4, so I added these to my latest order for F2K including decals, a few more LED lamps, flipper rebuild kit, another 7 digit Pinscore, metal acorn nuts, etc. The more I get hands on the more little things I find to correct. Being the newbie to this group, I want to thank the more senior members for providing knowledge and expertise. I have only dealt with Williams, Bally and Data East over the past 25 years, this is my first classic Stern and so far I like it. If I post too many pictures and repairs I make, let me know and I will cut back.

#1734 7 months ago
Quoted from pinballlarry1:

Dug deeper into the Marco website and found the Pinscore hardware set available the $4, so I added these to my latest order for F2K including decals, a few more LED lamps, flipper rebuild kit, another 7 digit Pinscore, metal acorn nuts, etc. The more I get hands on the more little things I find to correct. Being the newbie to this group, I want to thank the more senior members for providing knowledge and expertise. I have only dealt with Williams, Bally and Data East over the past 25 years, this is my first classic Stern and so far I like it. If I post too many pictures and repairs I make, let me know and I will cut back.

The more the merrier. Your pics some day, somewhere or somehow will help somebody down the road.

#1735 7 months ago
Quoted from Lovef2k:

The more the merrier. Your pics some day, somewhere or somehow will help somebody down the road.

I agree. Just yesterday I was sifting through the F2K photo gallery 'til I found a picture of a particular lamp socket and its wiring.

1 week later
#1736 7 months ago

Sadly left f2k club yesterday.
Space and funds needed after putting
Deposit down on Alien.
Loved my game. Sold it to
My boss and her husband.
Helped load and setup at their house.

They are excited about it and looks great
in their basement bar.

Will definitely miss it.

#1737 7 months ago
Quoted from lowbeau67:

Sadly left f2k club yesterday.
Space and funds needed after putting
Deposit down on Alien.
Loved my game. Sold it to
My boss and her husband.
Helped load and setup at their house.
They are excited about it and looks great
in their basement bar.
Will definitely miss it.

The good thing about selling a pin to someone you know is that you it's going to a good home usually and you may have a chance to buy it back some day.

#1738 7 months ago
Quoted from Lovef2k:

The good thing about selling a pin to someone you know is that you it's going to a good home usually and you may have a chance to buy it back some day.

Know

#1739 7 months ago

Joined the club!

Got a pretty nice machine. It plays well but I’m wondering if anyone can tell me where the flippers should be aligned to? Mine seem to be sagging down slightly.

Here’s some pics of my machine…
0EB7A335-5FDA-4E26-8B07-28541A574E71 (resized).jpegB3F929A9-B0C5-4FB4-8A9A-56542E312B42 (resized).jpegC99A4CDA-E3F5-4A92-ABB3-39A71C46AA79 (resized).jpeg

#1740 7 months ago

Nice machine. Best I can tell from your pics, flippers look about right.

#1741 7 months ago
Quoted from Pinball-Obsessed:

It plays well but I’m wondering if anyone can tell me where the flippers should be aligned to? Mine seem to be sagging down slightly.

Most classic sterns are supposed to be up against the little pin for alignment, which is about where yours are. If you want to change the gameplay slightly you can align them more in line with the inlanes (this is the way I have mine) - I have no issues hitting the outside shots and the center shots feel better.... although I can't say I like the extreme angle the flippers go up to (think gottlieb system 3 style-v there).

#1742 7 months ago
Quoted from Sputnik:

Nice machine. Best I can tell from your pics, flippers look about right.

Sorry not a good pic for the flipper complaint… I’ll post a better pic later. Thanks!

Quoted from slochar:

Most classic sterns are supposed to be up against the little pin for alignment, which is about where yours are. If you want to change the gameplay slightly you can align them more in line with the inlanes (this is the way I have mine) - I have no issues hitting the outside shots and the center shots feel better.... although I can't say I like the extreme angle the flippers go up to (think gottlieb system 3 style-v there).

Yes they are resting on those pins. I think I may go your route though. Thats exactly what I was thinking to do, was to align with the inlanes. Thanks!

Also I can’t seem to hit the ball off the end of the flipper to go into the opposite inlane (can’t think of the technical term used to describe that move). I’m thinking if my flippers came up a bit I might be able to do that? Or am I thinking about that ass backwards?

#1743 7 months ago
Quoted from Pinball-Obsessed:

Also I can’t seem to hit the ball off the end of the flipper to go into the opposite inlane (can’t think of the technical term used to describe that move). I’m thinking if my flippers came up a bit I might be able to do that?

commonly called 'shatzing' or 'alley pass'. it's needed to get the annoying O on mine for sure, that's usually the last letter I need to complete blast off.

Yes, probably could do that with the flippers up. I've also been able to backflip on a stopped ball and get some momentum up to the switch (people do this on Skateball a lot on the right inlane because it builds bonus and is safe.... some tournaments cut the inlane wire half up so you can't do this....)

#1744 7 months ago
Quoted from slochar:

commonly called 'shatzing' or 'alley pass'. it's needed to get the annoying O on mine for sure, that's usually the last letter I need to complete blast off.
Yes, probably could do that with the flippers up. I've also been able to backflip on a stopped ball and get some momentum up to the switch (people do this on Skateball a lot on the right inlane because it builds bonus and is safe.... some tournaments cut the inlane wire half up so you can't do this....)

That’s it…. the “alley pass” and it’s totally need it for that damn O letter! The right side return lanes are difficult to get into so this shot would help significantly.

#1745 7 months ago

As you've heard above, the design calls for flippers "sagging" toward the pins, but we have ours in line with the return lane plastics and can make all the shots you described.

p.s. I love the demonic glowing eye dog in your pic!

#1746 7 months ago
Quoted from clodpole:

As you've heard above, the design calls for flippers "sagging" toward the pins, but we have ours in line with the return lane plastics and can make all the shots you described.
p.s. I love the demonic glowing eye dog in your pic!

Ok cool, appreciate the info, thanks!.

Ha ha… Yeah that’s our pup scrappy, he’s gotta be a part of everything.

#1747 7 months ago

Your game looks really nice, especially the playfield. That Star Gazer looking spinner looks like it’s tempting you to nail it!

#1748 7 months ago
Quoted from Pinball-Obsessed:

Sorry not a good pic for the flipper complaint… I’ll post a better pic later. Thanks!

Yes they are resting on those pins. I think I may go your route though. Thats exactly what I was thinking to do, was to align with the inlanes. Thanks!
Also I can’t seem to hit the ball off the end of the flipper to go into the opposite inlane (can’t think of the technical term used to describe that move). I’m thinking if my flippers came up a bit I might be able to do that? Or am I thinking about that ass backwards?

My flippers are set on the pins (sagging) ... I have been able to do an alley-pass occasionally to collect the "o" .... I have also been able to sweep the 3 right drop targets and suppose the sagging flippers help there.

Another maneuver the sagging flippers allow is the center-post pass where the ball coming down an in-lane , across the face of a flipper then hits the center post to bounce up to the next flipper.

#1749 7 months ago
Quoted from chas10e:

My flippers are set on the pins (sagging) ... I have been able to do an alley-pass occasionally to collect the "o" .... I have also been able to sweep the 3 right drop targets and suppose the sagging flippers help there.
Another maneuver the sagging flippers allow is the center-post pass where the ball coming down an in-lane , across the face of a flipper then hits the center post to bounce up to the next flipper.

Good point - those of us with flippers "up" trade away the shots you describe.

#1750 7 months ago
Quoted from Xtraball:

Your game looks really nice, especially the playfield. That Star Gazer looking spinner looks like it’s tempting you to nail it!

thanks, it's really in nice shape. I definetly got a very good one for sure, it was from a friend.

Love the spinners on this game!

I'll take some better pics soon and post them.

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