(Topic ID: 124724)

Flight 2000 Club - members and fans welcome!

By Snux

6 years ago


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  • Latest reply 2 days ago by rcbrown316
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There are 1589 posts in this topic. You are on page 32 of 32.
#1551 9 days ago

If you install new eos switches be sure to clean the contacts with rubbing alcohol. Sometimes they have oily residue on them from factory. This will add resistance that you don't want.

#1552 9 days ago

What have I done wrong with the left flipper? If I start the machine and press the left flipper, the game restarts. Right flipper works fine.

4DD96A75-FA9D-480F-951A-D6C5F010E0BF (resized).jpeg
#1553 9 days ago

I think your blue & green are reversed polarity with the diodes

F2k flippers (resized).jpg
https://www.ipdb.org/files/887/Stern_1980_Flight_2000_Schematic_Diagram_paginated.pdf

These appear to be correct.

something seems wrong with mine though they seem to work (cold solder joints & all)

#1554 9 days ago

Thanks, I’ll switch the blue and green wires tomorrow night.

#1555 8 days ago
Quoted from DanMarino:

Thanks, I’ll switch the blue and green wires tomorrow night.

Edit- double checked my game and clodpole and chas10e are correct. Your flipper wires are backward.

B55CA248-158C-48FF-8F92-707F97F5C1A8 (resized).png
#1556 8 days ago

Thanks. It looks like the diodes are already oriented in the way you show with your added diode graphics.

I thought about the MPU voltage dropping last night, so I got out the multi-meter. I checked the TP4 and TP5 on the MPU and the voltage all was strong. I also checked the test points on the solenoid driver board and they all seemed fine still. There wasn't a voltage drop between the solenoid driver board and the MPU.

#1557 8 days ago
Quoted from DanMarino:

Thanks. It looks like the diodes are already oriented in the way you show with your added diode graphics.
I thought about the MPU voltage dropping last night, so I got out the multi-meter. I checked the TP4 and TP5 on the MPU and the voltage all was strong. I also checked the test points on the solenoid driver board and they all seemed fine still. There wasn't a voltage drop between the solenoid driver board and the MPU.

Edit- see post #1555 above

#1558 8 days ago

I switched the blue/white and the green wire and the game still restarts when I press the left flipper.

With the machine on there is:
45 volts is going to the green wire.
45 volts to the blue/white wire.
45 volts to center tab.
Open up the end of stroke switch and all 3 still have 45 volts.

#1559 8 days ago

Hey DanMarino, if you haven't done so, check the wires running to and from the left flipper button and see if one of them is shorting out along the way.

#1560 8 days ago

No luck finding a problem with the left flipper wires.

Here is the diagram I have for the flippers.
Left flipper button has an orange and a blue wire. Looks like the orange is supposed to go to the J2-9 pin on the Power Rectifier Board inside the base cabinet?
Blue wire goes to the Solenoid Driver Board in the head cabinet to the J2-2 pin?

Am I understanding the diagram properly?

IMG_8052[1] (resized).JPG

#1561 6 days ago

Machine is having big problems now. My son turned it on and the speaker makes a big gumming noise and the mpu doesn’t do the 7 beeps. Guess I’ll look at the power rectifier board fuses next. I think the general illumination was coming on still.

#1562 6 days ago
Quoted from DanMarino:

Machine is having big problems now. My son turned it on and the speaker makes a big gumming noise and the mpu doesn’t do the 7 beeps. Guess I’ll look at the power rectifier board fuses next. I think the general illumination was coming on still.

How many beeps are you getting at power up, if any?

#1563 5 days ago
Quoted from Lovef2k:

How many beeps are you getting at power up, if any?

Zero beeps. Just a loud buzzing sound. So I quickly turned off.

#1564 5 days ago
Quoted from DanMarino:

Zero beeps. Just a loud buzzing sound. So I quickly turned off.

Maybe I need to go to the pinwiki and start from the beginning with the power rectifier board connections.
I seem to remember a sequence of plugging in connectors that was listed there.

#1565 5 days ago
Quoted from DanMarino:

Machine is having big problems now. My son turned it on and the speaker makes a big gumming noise and the mpu doesn’t do the 7 beeps. Guess I’ll look at the power rectifier board fuses next. I think the general illumination was coming on still.

Wild guess, you've lost DC filtration on the 12V supply rail.
Measure the voltage on the solenoid driver board at test point TP5. If it's below say 14 volts DC then the big filter capacitor on the solenoid driver board at C23 may be bad or lost connection (possibly the ground at J3 pin 10 on the solenoid driver board connector).

#1566 5 days ago
Quoted from Quench:

Wild guess, you've lost DC filtration on the 12V supply rail.
Measure the voltage on the solenoid driver board at test point TP5. If it's below say 14 volts DC then the big filter capacitor on the solenoid driver board at C23 may be bad or lost connection (possibly the ground at J3 pin 10 on the solenoid driver board connector).

Thank you Quench. TP5 on the Solenoid Driver Board measures about 10.5 volts. It looks like the capacitor on the board at C23 has been replaced and is not original. However, I do not know how old that is.

Here is the back side of my solenoid driver board. I've never pulled it out of the machine before.

IMG_8074[1] (resized).JPG
#1567 5 days ago
Quoted from DanMarino:

TP5 on the Solenoid Driver Board measures about 10.5 volts.

Yep, that indicates a problem around capacitor C23. It's not filtering the 12VDC supply which is causing the buzzing from the sound amplifier and stopped the 5VDC supply for the logic boards from being steady.
The most likely scenario is you have a flaky connection on the white-brown wire at J3 pin 10 on the solenoid driver board (SDB) or J3 pin 17 on the rectifier board in the lower cabinet which is where C23 gets its ground connection from. If you measure zero volts directly across the capacitor C23 legs that confirms it. Alternatively if you measure 10.5VDC directly on the capacitor legs, then the capacitor is faulty.
It's a weak point in the design, you can add some redundancy by adding the ground mod for C23 (as well as C26 while you're there) on the solenoid driver board. Sorry I don't have ability to modify your picture right at this minute to show where the SDB ground wire mods go, maybe someone else can chime in with a photo till I can get to it later.

#1568 5 days ago

Thanks Quench, looks like my board has some issues. I will touch up a few solder connections and add the ground jumpers.

I found a post from Vid1900 and here are the photos of the improvements for the board he recommends to bulletproof them.
I might as well replace the 2 capacitors since they are cheap.
I also need to install new male pins.

IMG_8078[1] (resized).JPGWOQB6365[1] (resized).JPG

#1569 5 days ago

I've added the ground modifications for C26 and C23. I tested the voltage across the C23 legs and measured 13.5 volts.
The game boots up and the mpu does the 7 beeps.
When I start a game and press the left flipper, the mpu reboots.

#1570 5 days ago

Is it normal for the flipper relay to spark? When the right flipper is pressed the game works and there is no spark in the flipper relay. When we press the left flipper, there is a spark in the flipper relay and the machine reboots.

#1571 5 days ago

Do these ground mods have the effect of quieting excess game noise? My game plays fine but has a noisy humm while on. It’s not horrible but all my other pins are basically silent while on and compared to that it’s a bit noisy.

#1572 5 days ago
Quoted from DanMarino:

Is it normal for the flipper relay to spark? When the right flipper is pressed the game works and there is no spark in the flipper relay. When we press the left flipper, there is a spark in the flipper relay and the machine reboots.

Relay shouldn't spark. Might be time to replace it.

#1573 5 days ago
Quoted from swillie:

Do these ground mods have the effect of quieting excess game noise? My game plays fine but has a noisy humm while on. It’s not horrible but all my other pins are basically silent while on and compared to that it’s a bit noisy.

Typical of old Stern and Bally games. First see if the hum is coming from speaker or actually from the transformer vibrating. If it's the transformer, try tightening the mounting bolts and screws. Maybe even adding rubber washers between the L brackets and plywood base.

If it's speaker, make sure all boards are grounded to the back box brackets with screws. Make sure the ground braid strap is connected to the back box ground braid. Replace AC plug if ground prong is broken or missing. Not only for noise but for safety reasons. If none of these help, try re-capping the sound and speech board. Replace or ground the speaker. That's about all I can think of.

#1574 4 days ago
Quoted from DanMarino:

Is it normal for the flipper relay to spark?

Temporarily solder a jumper wire across the flipper relay switch contacts for the left flipper circuit so you bypass the relay switch. If the rebooting no longer happens when pressing the left flipper button then look at replacing the relay. Otherwise one of the diodes on the left flipper coil could be bad.

Quoted from DanMarino:

I've added the ground modifications for C26 and C23. I tested the voltage across the C23 legs and measured 13.5 volts.

13.5 volts still sounds a little low. Put your multi-meter on AC voltage and measure directly across C23 again. From memory you should measure around 0.3 volts of ripple if C23 is doing its job. BTW post a picture showing the replaced C23.

#1575 4 days ago

Hi Quench, here is a photo of the front of my board from yesterday. I believe the C23 has been replaced previously by someone.
I have some diodes and can replace them on the left flipper. I won't be able to get to that for a few days.
I've gone ahead and ordered a new flipper relay from Great Plains, as well as new header pins. My pins are looking in bad shape with lots of the plating gone on them.

KMUV4190[1] (resized).JPG

#1576 4 days ago
Quoted from DanMarino:

here is a photo of the front of my board from yesterday. I believe the C23 has been replaced previously by someone.

Cheers, I can't see what value the C23 capacitor is. Can you tell me how many uF it's marked with?
If you get a chance let me know what AC voltage is across that capacitor. If the voltage is too high, it could be indicative of a problem on the rectifier board that's causing the flipper resets (although I think you mentioned the rectifier board is new). It's unlikely since the resets only happen with one flipper but just want to check if it's borderline.

Quoted from DanMarino:

My pins are looking in bad shape with lots of the plating gone on them.

You'll want to also replace the crimp terminals in the connectors because they'll be in bad shape too. Plus you'll need a crimping tool if you don't have one.
Also the big capacitor at C26 looks original. If you're still using the factory plasma displays (not new LED displays), think about replacing him.

#1577 3 days ago

Looks like 15,000 uF.

The voltage across C23 is 29.7 volts AC.

IMG_8087[1] (resized).JPG

#1578 3 days ago
Quoted from DanMarino:

Looks like 15,000 uF.

The voltage across C23 is 29.7 volts AC.

Cap value is ok.
Hmm, it doesn't look like your meter is interpreting the ripple voltage on the AC setting correctly. Oh well.

#1579 3 days ago

My Fight 2000 is back in service! I replaced the diodes on the left flipper and all is working properly now!
Thank you very much to everyone who has assisted. Over the next several weeks I'll work on replacing the header pins and connectors for the solenoid driver board.

#1580 3 days ago
Quoted from DanMarino:

My Fight 2000 is back in service! I replaced the diodes on the left flipper and all is working properly now!

Great to hear!

#1581 3 days ago

I played a few games and everything was fine. The last game had something still a little funny with the left flipper like it is binding. It got stuck in the up position, like the spring didn't return it back to the resting position. I don't think the coil was causing it to be open with the left flipper button released.

#1582 3 days ago

Anyone in need of the large drop target assembly? I have a whole assembly that includes an extra new coil to reset the bank and a full drop target set. I also have a very clean MPU-200 with NVRAM already installed. It was working well but just had as a backup for my Flight 2000. Won't need either of these. Just send a PM if you're interested.

#1583 3 days ago
Quoted from DanMarino:

I played a few games and everything was fine. The last game had something still a little funny with the left flipper like it is binding. It got stuck in the up position, like the spring didn't return it back to the resting position. I don't think the coil was causing it to be open with the left flipper button released.

It's possible the solenoid plunger is sticking in the tube, or that the plunger has "mushroomed" a bit at the end from its life of pounding, and is jamming up a bit. If you drop the solenoid off the bracket and inspect, or even just try working the plunger assembly in and out manually you may be able to feel if it's binding.

#1584 3 days ago
Quoted from clodpole:

It's possible the solenoid plunger is sticking in the tube, or that the plunger has "mushroomed" a bit at the end from its life of pounding, and is jamming up a bit. If you drop the solenoid off the bracket and inspect, or even just try working the plunger assembly in and out manually you may be able to feel if it's binding.

This is likely what's going on here. Pull the coil stop and inspect that and the plunger for "mushrooming". Clean out the sleeve and see if the linkage on the plunger is sloppy. Once you get your other issues solved i would order a rebuild kit from pinball life. your coil stop orientation is a mess and it looks like someone used the wrong screws and glue to secure it. get that shit outta there and rebuild both flippers at the same time. you will be amazed at the difference.

https://www.pinballlife.com/classic-stern-flipper-rebuild-kit-left-and-right-flippers.html

RB

#1585 3 days ago

Well, it stopped working again. The plunger, coil stop, and end of stroke switch are all new.
Back to the drawing board. At least I got a few games in. haha.

#1586 3 days ago
Quoted from DanMarino:

Well, it stopped working again. The plunger, coil stop, and end of stroke switch are all new.
Back to the drawing board. At least I got a few games in. haha.

Unless it's just the angle that coil stop looks out of position to me. I shouldn't be able to see the end of the sleeve. Also do those flipper bats have the grooves? I find those cause issues when they get chewed up. I replace them with bats with no grooves when needed.

pasted_image (resized).png

#1587 3 days ago
Quoted from Robotworkshop:

Anyone in need of the large drop target assembly? I have a whole assembly that includes an extra new coil to reset the bank and a full drop target set. Just send a PM if you're interested.

HoakyPoaky may be interested

#1588 2 days ago

I'm going to have my son order entire new flipper assemblies from Pinball Life or someplace like that. Since my flippers appear to be jacked up, let's start from scratch with whole new assemblies for the left and right. What are the proper flipper coils to order? I guess I can look at the manual, but don't have it on hand with me right now since I'm at work.

#1589 2 days ago

I have the 475's in mine. I think those are correct. Look original and plenty of power.

There are 1589 posts in this topic. You are on page 32 of 32.

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