(Topic ID: 124724)

Flight 2000 Club - members and fans welcome!


By Snux

4 years ago



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  • 641 posts
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  • Latest reply 1 day ago by Lovef2k
  • Topic is favorited by 43 Pinsiders

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There are 641 posts in this topic. You are on page 13 of 13.
#601 31 days ago
Quoted from pinball_ric:

The short has been present since before doing any work. Other than replacing the rectifier board. The original was bad. A lot of the light sockets were "fixed" someone soldering the bases. I assumed one of those was botched but they have all been replaced.

I will assume that who ever "fixed" the light sockets botched something that has not been located and fixed. A wire somewhere is not in the correct position.

Look for a red and white wire to have been replaced incorrectly. It is an easy mistake to make.
========================

I hope what I have written below helps you out.

But get ready to do what you don't want to do. There is a Frye's Electronics in Austin not too far from you. You may as well go buy a sack of 1000 count 4" tie wraps and start digging into your wiring.

Quoted from pinball_ric:

Currently the wire on J1-8 is blue or violet. Hard to tell. This wire had burned up on the connector at least once before so this has probably been going on for awhile.

The J1-8 wire not being white sounds strange. I doubt that Stern ran out of white wire during assembly. So maybe somebody spliced in some bastard wiring---somewhere in your bundles of wiring. You will be able to tell very quickly by looking at the color of wire on ALL of your GI lights. Red and White are the blueprint colors for GI.

What I am saying above will be come apparent as you read below.

Good Luck. Wiring is a PIA; But I do like it.
===========================================

I have six classic Sterns here. For the most part, the general drawings will cross across all MPU-200 Sterns. One of my Sterns has four wires of a different color than what is called for on the print. Another one has one wire that does not match what is on the print. At Stern, this shit happened.

This is the transformer/rectifier board drawing. J1 connector is in the middle of J-2and J3.
Pin 1 is Red wire.
Pin 2 is not used.
Pin 3 is a blue wire.
Pin 4 is your lockout key
Pin 5 is N.U.
Pin 6 is a Blue/White wire
Pin 7 is a blue wire
Pin 8 is a white wire

These drawings are oversized. You can click and enlarge.

Screen Shot 2019-12-22 at 7.10.02 PM (resized).png

The play field part of the drawing shows you that A2J1-1 is your return wire for GI (I spoke incorrectly earlier and quoted the Red wire as the power wire. Red is your return wire).

Screen Shot 2019-12-22 at 7.26.34 PM (resized).png

This pic shows the wires to match what is in the drawing.

Pin 1 = Red

Pin 2 = N.U.

Pin 3 = dark blue ( could possibly be a light blue ) This is a feature lamp bus. (see also Pin 7)

Pin 4 = Lockout Key

Pin 5 = N.U. (see also Pin 8 )

Pin 6 = Blue/White wire ( this Blu-W wire is the power wire for the flippers. You can trace it to the power lug of both flippers. Up between the flippers is a 1 amp slo-blo fuse. Pull that fuse and all of your solenoids go dead. However, the flippers are not fused and will continue to work with that fuse removed.

Pin 7 = Dark Blue ( see also Pin 3)

Pin 8 = White (reference the Play field drawing and it tells you that A2J1-8 is a 6 volt ac White wire).

IMG_2613 (resized).jpg

Pin 1 Red wire: You will see that red wire spliced at every GI light at the base of the light.

Pin 8 White wire: You will also see this white wire on the power tab of every GI light. Pin 8 also meets up with Pin 5. This connection travels to test point 4 (TP-4) and then continues on to the F5 20 amp fused circuit on A2 rectifier board.

Pin 3 and Pin 7 come together in the circuitry of the rectifier board and hook up to bridge rectifier 1 (BR-1) Also, connector J3-Pin 6 is another dark blue wire that feeds the feature lights in the back box.

Here is one GI light on one of my Sterns. This red/white combo are Pin 1 and Pin 8 on A2. Every GI light is going to be just like the one in this pic.

Screen Shot 2019-12-22 at 7.52.06 PM (resized).png

This is a feature light. It is hard to see due to my lighting but that blue wire at the base of the socket can be either from Pin 3 dark blue or Pin 7 dark blue. Look carefully and you will see some of the bare wire that has been soldered to the socket base and from here it will travel to another socket base and on and on until all of your feature lights are all hooked up to their common blue wire.

The blk/w wire I am pinching is the trigger wire for that feature light. (NOTE: These pics are from a Catacomb and are in no way representative of what you will see inside F2K).

IMG_2628 (resized).jpg

EDIT: I want to add something with this pic of the GI circuit...

Consider the the Pin 8 white wire is the hot wire and red is return. If someone replaced some sockets and crossed the red and white wire, that white wire becomes a problem. It will be feeding power to the red side of the GI wiring and pushing current backwards into the system, which means it would be pushing backwards into Pin 1 Red wire.

I would do some isolation. First, remove the Pin 1 connector and kill your GI lights. Does the problem go away and you can now play a game? If that was no change, then remove the 2 dark blue wires for the feature lights. See if anything changes.

Screen Shot 2019-12-22 at 7.52.06 PM (resized).png

#602 30 days ago

Hi all, I have sound but I have no speech on my F2k. I've checked my cable connections, replaced the electrolytic caps and have good voltages at the test points on the VSU.
Haven't invested in a S14001A speech chip yet because I've seen others post they have replaced that with no luck.
I thought I'd replace the IC's as a cheaper next step but thought I'd check all the resistors prior to that. In doing that I noticed on the schematic that R26 and R27 are physically the opposite on my board, R26 banded and tests as 20k ohm and R27 as 5.6k ohm (speech had worked fine at one time on this board). These go to the inputs on one of the three AND gates on U6.
I physically checked on the board that R27 does go J2-13 and U6 pin8 and R26 goes to one side of diode CR4 and the other to ground. Is this a misprint on the schematic or could it be a factory mistake as both resistors look original to my board and the same as close up pics of other boards I've looked at on the web. The other AND gates in use on U6 all have 20k ohm resistors prior to their inputs apart from R26 which connects to the BUSY of U8 via CR4. Could this affect the longevity of U6 or am I just clueless and all is well.
A previous poster replaced U6 and all was fixed.
I do plan on replacing U6 first but I was just trying to get an opinion from someone with a better grasp of this than me if the resistor situation was an issue, and just to repeat myself the speech was working at one time in the current configuration of the pin it just stopped one day, no changes had been made to it prior to failure.
I forgot to mention I replaced the eprom as someone had soldered it directly to the PCB.

#603 30 days ago

just to rule it out ... is dip switch #17 "on" for "talking feature ?

is there speech in test mode?

I don't have my machine near me to snap a pic of the sound board but will look on my SD card to see if I have one or not.

k found a couple ... hope they help

IMG_1301 (resized).JPGIMG_1302 (resized).JPG
#604 30 days ago

Yep, no speech in test mode, switch 17 on, no mod for sb-300 necessary original boards no changes to pin prior to speech failure.
Thanks.
Just more querying the positions of those resistors as opposed to the schematic more than anything

#605 30 days ago

also i can see your R27 looks like it's a 5.6K ohm in the pic.

I took a closer look at pull up/down resistors for logic gate inputs it looks like those values aren't that critical so I guess that's why it may not be an issue. I wish I could remember what I learnt about that stuff 25 years ago then maybe I wouldn't waste peoples time. The board resistors and the schematic still contradict each other though.

#606 30 days ago

member @barakandl has more technical expertise with this board & hope he can chime in with some solutions for you.

#607 30 days ago

That lamp driver is a single sided board and those solder connections at the header pins are prone to crack. Have you pulled off that board and checked it?

Usually the passive components like resistors don't usually fail unless underrated. I've had more issues with pins losing tension or just brittle and braking off the portion that should touch the pin.

#608 30 days ago
Quoted from Robotworkshop:

That lamp driver is a single sided board and those solder connections at the header pins are prone to crack. Have you pulled off that board and checked it?
Usually the passive components like resistors don't usually fail unless underrated. I've had more issues with pins losing tension or just brittle and braking off the portion that should touch the pin.

No I haven't looked at that, Would I be having lamp issues in that case? All lamps TOK.

I never really thought the resistors were going to be an issue but if I was going to be replacing components I may as well test the basics (all resistors within spec BTW).

#609 30 days ago
Quoted from chas10e:

member @barakandl has more technical expertise with this board & hope he can chime in with some solutions for you.

Thanks, only time will tell, busy time of year for some.

#610 30 days ago
Quoted from Kanned_69:

No I haven't looked at that, Would I be having lamp issues in that case? All lamps TOK.
I never really thought the resistors were going to be an issue but if I was going to be replacing components I may as well test the basics (all resistors within spec BTW).

Sure. Depends on how many solder joints are cracked. It only takes one fractured solder connection. Happens all the time and is very common. That is one of the first things I check on any boards I get in for repairs.

Definitely a great idea to test parts. Just look at how they are connected if you measure in circuit since other components can throw off the readings. You may need to unsolder a lead to measure. Usually not worth it for most resistors unless known ones that go bad. Electrolytic caps are worth pulling to test.

It's best not to replace parts unless you have to. Otherwise you risk board damage. A lot of repairs I do is stripping off all prior work and in many cases fixing traces and pads torn up by unnecessary repairs.

#611 30 days ago

I found the problem with the short. Thank you cottonm4. When I replaced the rectifier board and connectors in this f2k I didn't have any 8 pin connectors I don't think. So i put a 9 pin on. I must have just started at the end and not counted what pins I was putting the wires in. Regardless it's fixed and I don't think any damage was done.

#612 26 days ago
Quoted from pinball_ric:

I found the problem with the short. Thank you cottonm4. When I replaced the rectifier board and connectors in this f2k I didn't have any 8 pin connectors I don't think. So i put a 9 pin on. I must have just started at the end and not counted what pins I was putting the wires in. Regardless it's fixed and I don't think any damage was done.

Damage? You might have blown some bulbs, maybe.

Thanks for posting the solution.

Now, how does it play ?

#613 25 days ago

Does anyone know of a good replacement spinner for the Flight 2000? Just plain white would be fine. I was looking at the new replacement from PB Resource:

Generic Enhanced White Replacement Wire Spinner for Gottlieb, Bally, and Williams games that had wire spinner. BLY-A3460+ $17.14ea

http://www.pbresource.com/spinner/bly-a3460+.jpg

http://www.pbresource.com/spinner.html

Has anyone tried these? My game has a couple random beat up Bally spinners and I'd like to get a fresh set on the game. I have decals.

#614 24 days ago
Quoted from Robotworkshop:

Does anyone know of a good replacement spinner for the Flight 2000? Just plain white would be fine. I was looking at the new replacement from PB Resource:
Generic Enhanced White Replacement Wire Spinner for Gottlieb, Bally, and Williams games that had wire spinner. BLY-A3460+ $17.14ea
http://www.pbresource.com/spinner/bly-a3460+.jpg
http://www.pbresource.com/spinner.html
Has anyone tried these? My game has a couple random beat up Bally spinners and I'd like to get a fresh set on the game. I have decals.

I bought those and silkscreened them for my resore.

20160522_115609 (resized).jpg

20160523_173956 (resized).jpg

#615 24 days ago
Quoted from Robotworkshop:

Does anyone know of a good replacement spinner for the Flight 2000? Just plain white would be fine. I was looking at the new replacement from PB Resource:
Generic Enhanced White Replacement Wire Spinner for Gottlieb, Bally, and Williams games that had wire spinner. BLY-A3460+ $17.14ea
http://www.pbresource.com/spinner/bly-a3460+.jpg
http://www.pbresource.com/spinner.html
Has anyone tried these? My game has a couple random beat up Bally spinners and I'd like to get a fresh set on the game. I have decals.

If the wire looks solid just take some sandpaper and sand them smooth and repaint them.

#616 24 days ago
Quoted from psd4me:

I bought those and silkscreened them for my resore.
[quoted image]
[quoted image]

They look nice. What kind of silk screen ink are you using, please? I have made the screens but I'm having no luck with my inks.

#617 24 days ago
Quoted from cottonm4:

They look nice. What kind of silk screen ink are you using, please? I have made the screens but I'm having no luck with my inks.

Nazdar 59000 series.

#618 24 days ago
Quoted from psd4me:

I bought those and silkscreened them for my resore.
[quoted image]
[quoted image]

Might want to clear coat them as well

#619 24 days ago
Quoted from psd4me:

Nazdar 59000 series.

Thanks. but it looks like this Nazdar brand is not sold in small quantities.

#620 24 days ago
Quoted from cottonm4:

Thanks. but it looks like this Nazdar brand is not sold in small quantities.

No it's not. We had red at work and I bought the blue.

#621 24 days ago
Quoted from Chosen_S:

Might want to clear coat them as well

I put mylar on them. Seems to be working good so far.

#622 24 days ago
Quoted from psd4me:

No it's not. We had red at work and I bought the blue.

Perhaps you can help me with an answer. The ink I am trying to use results in a rough surface. Quite unlike the smooth surface of the factory silk screens. Does the Nazdar ink lay down real smooth or does it seem to have a texture to it?

Thanks.

#623 24 days ago
Quoted from cottonm4:

Perhaps you can help me with an answer. The ink I am trying to use results in a rough surface. Quite unlike the smooth surface of the factory silk screens. Does the Nazdar ink lay down real smooth or does it seem to have a texture to it?
Thanks.

Is the ink thick enough to where you could wet sand it to get it smooth?

#624 23 days ago
Quoted from cottonm4:

Perhaps you can help me with an answer. The ink I am trying to use results in a rough surface. Quite unlike the smooth surface of the factory silk screens. Does the Nazdar ink lay down real smooth or does it seem to have a texture to it?
Thanks.

Yes it does lay fairly smooth.

#625 23 days ago
Quoted from pinball_ric:

Is the ink thick enough to where you could wet sand it to get it smooth?

No. That would not really be an option. I wish it would work, though.

Quoted from psd4me:

Yes it does lay fairly smooth.

Ok. Thanks. I'll have to keep plugging away with this. I really want to use the screens I made, but the ink is a challenge; It should not be but it is.

#626 23 days ago

The weather here over the break has been horribly hot and smoke filled due to fires up and down our east coast line. I have spent a little time giving my Flight which was a moderately rough cabinet a little bit of love. The machine originally came to me as a box of disassembled parts and over the years has gradually been rebuilt and given small makeovers. The machine is very very far from perfect. the old MDF has swollen and delimitated in places. Its not smooth, but it is 10 times better than it was.
IMG_4446 (resized).jpegIMG_4449 (resized).jpegIMG_4453 (resized).jpeg

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2 weeks later
#627 9 days ago

Last weekend I acquired a Flight 2000.........playfield. It's in a bit rough shape, but salvagable. I have an ambitious idea on what to do with it, to bring it back to life.

#628 9 days ago

Hello Flight 2000 club members!

I've been collecting information to create a Tech Chart for Flight 2000.
The manual however has conflicting information.
So I used the VisualPinMame table to sort it out.
I think I have every lamp now, but I'm not sure about the wiring.
Is someone willing to help me get things right?

Peter
http://www.inkochnito.nl

Stern_Flight-2000_Lamps.pdf
#629 8 days ago
Quoted from Inkochnito:

Hello Flight 2000 club members!

I've been collecting information to create a Tech Chart for Flight 2000.

I, having just the playfield, have started on this. I'm trying to decode which wires are on what connector. First order? Stick on labels. And go from there.

#630 8 days ago

I've corrected some small mistakes.
To make them easy to read I've sorted them on connector too.

Stern_Flight-2000_Lamps.pdf
#631 4 days ago

Restoration is progress, made this small mod today.

IMG_6351 (resized).JPGIMG_6352 (resized).JPG
#632 4 days ago

NIce, what did you use as spacers between the new clear inland guides and the printed plastic?

#633 4 days ago
Quoted from Jodannar:

NIce, what did you use as spacers between the new clear inland guides and the printed plastic?

It's spare spacer plastics from stripped older bally or stern playfield

#634 4 days ago
Quoted from Jodannar:

NIce, what did you use as spacers between the new clear inland guides and the printed plastic?

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/need-new-metal-standoffs-under-your-em-plastics#post-4178348

Not sure if he still is producing theme or not but worth a try

#635 3 days ago

Far from perfect but a vast improvement from what it was. Passes the 3 step test (take 3 steps back and it looks good)

5392DFEA-CE39-455D-A261-407D5C7ED893 (resized).jpeg
#636 3 days ago
Quoted from Jodannar:

Far from perfect but a vast improvement from what it was. Passes the 3 step test (take 3 steps back and it looks good)[quoted image]

#637 3 days ago
Quoted from HPR:

Restoration is progress, made this small mod today.[quoted image][quoted image]

I've been putting this off but it needs done. I was thinking about having the lower parts cut from stainless steel and saving the plastic protectors for under the new plastics.

#638 2 days ago

Does anyone have a pic of the upper left slingshot plastic, next to a ruler?

IMG_20200120_194419~2 (resized).jpg
#639 2 days ago
Quoted from s1500:

Does anyone have a pic of the upper left slingshot plastic, next to a ruler?[quoted image]

I probably have a spare I could mail to you. I will let you know in a day or 2.

#640 1 day ago
Quoted from Lovef2k:

I probably have a spare I could mail to you. I will let you know in a day or 2.

Thanks. The 2 big plastics have small parts chipped off of it, but I'm not going to worry about that now.

Over the weekend, I got most of the rubbers placed onto it. I was missing a few pieces from the rubber kit I ordered, but no biggie.

The next step is to take some of these really rusty screws & find equivalents at the hardware store. Trying to find the matching hardware on pinball supplier websites didn't bring up anything matching.

Looking at the plastic coil holders for the pop bumpers, they look like they could be 3D printed. Mine are intact, but still , would be a fun challenge.

#641 1 day ago
Quoted from s1500:

Thanks. The 2 big plastics have small parts chipped off of it, but I'm not going to worry about that now.
Over the weekend, I got most of the rubbers placed onto it. I was missing a few pieces from the rubber kit I ordered, but no biggie.
The next step is to take some of these really rusty screws & find equivalents at the hardware store. Trying to find the matching hardware on pinball supplier websites didn't bring up anything matching.
Looking at the plastic coil holders for the pop bumpers, they look like they could be 3D printed. Mine are intact, but still , would be a fun challenge.

Not sure what you mean by plastic coil holders. Are you referring to the pop bumper main body under the pf?

The screws are going to be a pain. I know by experience. They will spin when trying to remove the cap nuts. They have a blind stud that come up from the underside of the pf and there's no tool that will hold it and will may need to break or cut them. You'll see once you get into it. Also be careful note that there are 2 different sizes of the red posts.

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