(Topic ID: 124724)

Flight 2000 Club - members and fans welcome!


By Snux

5 years ago



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  • Latest reply 6 days ago by clodpole
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There are 859 posts in this topic. You are on page 12 of 18.
#551 7 months ago
Quoted from wolffcub:

Anyone else running the weebly setup? I was having issues with my boards so i got all new ones for my flash Gordon and flight 2k from weebly. Im running all his stuff in my Lectronamo with no issues but when powering up both machines the mpu fails to boot fully when the J2 connector is plugged in on the driver board. Im drawing a blank as to why this is happening.[quoted image]

Best bet is to email Andrew Spitler. He designed these and stands behind his products.

#552 7 months ago
Quoted from Lovef2k:

Best bet is to email Andrew Spitler. He designed these and stands behind his products.

He has been eagerly helping me. He and myself are puzzled as to why this is happening on both the flash Gordon and f2k machines. When using his MPU with his new driver board the MPU will not finish booting, But if i change back to the old driver board it boots perfect. We are going to be doing more testing later today after work.

#553 7 months ago
Quoted from Chosen_S:

Thank you ,
Yup, I just came up with the $, went to eBay to check out and they were sold

If you have not then send the seller and EBay PM and she if she has more.

Her dad was an operator from way back and she had lots of play fields.

#554 7 months ago
Quoted from wolffcub:

He has been eagerly helping me. He and myself are puzzled as to why this is happening on both the flash Gordon and f2k machines. When using his MPU with his new driver board the MPU will not finish booting, But if i change back to the old driver board it boots perfect. We are going to be doing more testing later today after work.

I took a new built driver board around to a bunch of different games and the test fixture. They all worked fine except Nine Ball has the no 7th flash issue. If I remove either J1 or J2 the 7th flash comes. If plug both J1 and J2 in the feature lamps all go dead until I unplug one of them. Quick check with the DMM the zero crossing detector on the MPU craps out when the bother flipper connectors are on the driver board. Really bizarre issue. I am about to dive into trying to figure out what is going on.

I did buy different flipper relays recently is the only thing I can think of that has changed. They are the same part number, RTE44012, as the ones I was using before but are Schrack brand instead of TE connectivity brand. The data sheets look identical except maybe the Schrack branding is for international sales? Made in a different plant.

#555 7 months ago

Crap, now nine ball just started working fine with that driver board. Intermittent problems are a bitch.

#556 7 months ago
Quoted from cottonm4:

If you have not then send the seller and EBay PM and she if she has more.
Her dad was an operator from way back and she had lots of play fields.

I actually did that . Her and I are in conversation, she doesn’t have any left . And she’s about to go on vacation for quite a while

#557 7 months ago
Quoted from wolffcub:

He has been eagerly helping me. He and myself are puzzled as to why this is happening on both the flash Gordon and f2k machines. When using his MPU with his new driver board the MPU will not finish booting, But if i change back to the old driver board it boots perfect. We are going to be doing more testing later today after work.

I think I figured out what is going on. I was able to get nine ball to boot up every time by removing the capacitors on the mosfet drain pin. The drain capacitors is 0.1uF across ground the drain pin of mosfet which runs out to the coils. When the mosfet is turned off the 43v feeds back through the coil windings up to the driver board. If enough coils are used enough capacitance is added to the 43v rail to break the zero cross detection that monitors the 43v suppy pass zero at 120hz to be used as a timer.

I have had those capacitors installed in the boards for a long time now and this is the first time I have found it to be an issue. Maybe the last batch of capacitors i got are actually over 0.1uF in rated. When the game started working the capacitance was probably dropped down as things heated up and the zero X detector started working again.

I was trying to be extra thorough and using those capacitors there but I think it causes problems in rare cases and the benefit is minimal. The other replacement sdb designs do not appear to be using those capacitors, or a gate capacitor. I will not populate those caps going forward and delete them from the design in the next revision.

Wolfcub if you cut out C301 to C319 on the driver board problem should go away.

#558 7 months ago

I will post up what happens when I get home and remove them.

#559 7 months ago

I'm still looking for a flight 2000 project or a players condition game if anyone has one they want to part with.

#560 7 months ago

Removed the caps as instructed and both machines now boot correctly.

#561 7 months ago

I got one of the PF from the Latin American lady who was selling off her fathers old stock.

All in all its in great shape being 4 decades old.

I will probably apply some additional clearcoat as it feels very thin. Do you know if PFs had less CC back in the days?

83F151DE-8C39-489F-914F-E858DBE8C583 (resized).jpeg1122600C-F07B-45A2-8279-FA7B80BB0AB7 (resized).jpeg
#562 7 months ago

Congrats, looks great! You will absolutely want to clearcoat that playfield. See this thread for why: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/defender-williams-1982-nos-playfield-

#563 7 months ago
Quoted from Bulldozer:

I got one of the PF from the Latin American lady who was selling off her fathers old stock.
All in all its in great shape being 4 decades old.
I will probably apply some additional clearcoat as it feels very thin. Do you know if PFs had less CC back in the days?[quoted image][quoted image]

Did you pick up both playfields she had?

#564 7 months ago

This is what I love most about Pinside: a guy in Norway showing off a NOS playfield he picked up from Argentina. Is pinball still wall-to-wall or what?!

#565 7 months ago
Quoted from Chosen_S:

Did you pick up both playfields she had?

I only bought one - have you asked her if she has got any more?

#566 7 months ago

The second one went to Norway ....

Guess I'll have it clearcoated - I'm currently trying out a local company who are going to clearcoat a Laser war for me next week.

The only thing I'm not sure of if they're able to handle filling the insert cupping and sanding themselves or if I should do it before delivering the playfield to them.

What do you guys think ?

I'm also considering just using a playfield protector and leaving the playfield as is, but I guess this might lead to planking further down the road ...

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#567 7 months ago

I am debating the same thing. Perhaps have them clearcoat it in stages where you sand it in between?

But at the same time I think a good auto shop should know how to handle recesses/cupping. Please keep me posted.

Are you restoring your cabinet as well?

#568 7 months ago
Quoted from play_pinball:

Congrats, looks great! You will absolutely want to clearcoat that playfield. See this thread for why: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/defender-williams-1982-nos-playfield-

Thank you for that advice and link!

#569 7 months ago

I'll keep you posted, Bulldozer !

Let me know what you decide to do.

The machine is in storage right now, I haven't had the chance to look at the cabinet properly - but a NOS playfield deserves a nice cabinet to go with it IMHO

Guess it'll be a summer project, I don't have the space to do it indoors and temperatures are falling ...

#570 7 months ago

I went with a playfield protector on mine because I will probably do more paint touch-up in the future and didn't want what is there to get worse. If yours is NOS and is perfect now then protect it with clear coat. Much better option.

And remember, det finnes ikke dårlig vær, bare dårlige clear coat.

#571 7 months ago
Quoted from ArcadeRaid:

I went with a playfield protector on mine because I will probably do more paint touch-up in the future and didn't want what is there to get worse. If yours is NOS and is perfect now then protect it with clear coat. Much better option.
And remember, det finnes ikke dårlig vær, bare dårlige clear coat.

thank you for your reply. Yes - I will start calling auto paint shops next week.

Do you recommend some prep work for the surface. I looked at it again tofay and it looks like that there is no clear coat at all. As I can feel the insert edges.

#572 7 months ago
Quoted from Bulldozer:

thank you for your reply. Yes - I will start calling auto paint shops next week.
Do you recommend some prep work for the surface. I looked at it again tofay and it looks like that there is no clear coat at all. As I can feel the insert edges.

I would check the inserts to see if they are glued in still. Just push lightly underneath and you’ll be able to tell if they pop out easily. I’m almost positive they’ll come right out. Check out vids playfield restoration thread for info on gluing them back in.

#573 7 months ago
Quoted from chubtoad13:

I would check the inserts to see if they are glued in still. Just push lightly underneath and you’ll be able to tell if they pop out easily. I’m almost positive they’ll come right out. Check out vids playfield restoration thread for info on gluing them back in.

My first Stern play field I restored I did not reset the inserts and just laid down the clear. With 35 year old glue the inserts are moving under the clear a little bit.

I won’t make that mistake again.
On my next restore, all inserts will be removed and reset with epoxy.

Your play fields have probably been living in a hot warehouse
for all these years. I would be suspicious of old insert glue.

#574 7 months ago
Quoted from chubtoad13:

I would check the inserts to see if they are glued in still. Just push lightly underneath and you’ll be able to tell if they pop out easily. I’m almost positive they’ll come right out. Check out vids playfield restoration thread for info on gluing them back in.

Thanks for the tip, chubtoad13 !
Will definitely check this.

Are there other things to take in consideration before clearcoating ?

#575 7 months ago

You should remove all inserts, sand them flat and reglue them.
If you clear the playfield in this condition, clear will crack around all inserts.
This nos playfield is superb but it need a major treatment before clearcoating it.

Here's a F2K playfield i recenty restored. I customized a little the artwork and make black inserts rings thinner ''a la Bally''
IMG_6351 (resized).JPGIMG_6352 (resized).JPGIMG_6353 (resized).JPGIMG_6354 (resized).JPG

IMG_6351 (resized).JPG
#576 7 months ago
Quoted from HPR:

You should remove all inserts, sand them flat and reglue them.
If you clear the playfield in this condition, clear will crack around all inserts.
This nos playfield is superb but it need a major treatment before clearcoating it.
Here's a F2K playfield i recenty restored. I customized a little the artwork and make black inserts rings thinner ''a la Bally''[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

Looks awesome! But how did you keep the ”text” on the inserts if you sanded them?

#577 7 months ago

I scan them and use this product to recreate them when inserts reglued on the playfield.

#578 7 months ago

Here's the file i used to restore the inserts, i made them public for everyone in need of them.
I'm sorry they are rescale a bit by pinside but i think they are usable

Decals complet.jpg
#579 7 months ago
Quoted from HPR:

Here's the file i used to restore the inserts, i made them public for everyone in need of them.
I'm sorry they are rescale a bit by pinside but i think they are usable[quoted image]

Many thanks! That is very nice of you.

I might need them if it turns out I need to sand down my inserts.

Are there relacement inserts for old Stern games should they break while I am at it?

#580 7 months ago
Quoted from Bulldozer:

Many thanks! That is very nice of you.
I might need them if it turns out I need to sand down my inserts.
Are there relacement inserts for old Stern games should they break while I am at it?

Marco Specialties has a good selection of inserts.

https://www.marcospecialties.com/control/keywordsearch?SEARCH_STRING=insert&VIEW_SIZE=60&VIEW_INDEX=0&sortOrder=SortKeywordRelevancy

Pinball Life has some.

https://www.pinballlife.com/search.html?Search=insert

#581 7 months ago
Quoted from Bulldozer:

Many thanks! That is very nice of you.
I might need them if it turns out I need to sand down my inserts.
Are there relacement inserts for old Stern games should they break while I am at it?

Pm me if you need an insert. I received a lot of F2k inserts recently. If I have what you need I’ll send it out to you.

#582 7 months ago

Bay Area also has a nice assortment of inserts.

3 weeks later
#583 6 months ago

Wondering if anyone has some advice. I replaced the caps on my SDU and I still am not booting. Voltages coming off the power board test points are correct. Tp1 and tp3 are not reading 5v on the sdu. What can I test next to narrow down my issue? It was doing random resets before completely dying.

#584 6 months ago

Shoot, sorry. I just remembered I was supposed to replace lm323 as well. I just ordered one and will see what that does.

1 week later
#585 6 months ago

I would check the rectifier board in the cabinet and the connectors. Repin any bad ones. Also check pins in the connectors at the boards in the head. Many were brittle or weak on my game. It has performed solid ever since.

I've rebuilt a lot of the Bally and Stern driver boards and haven't had to replace an lm323 yet. Don't know who said you have too.

If you haven't done the ground and 5v jumper mod I'd do that before swapping that voltage regulator.

#586 6 months ago
Quoted from Robotworkshop:

I would check the rectifier board in the cabinet and the connectors. Repin any bad ones. Also check pins in the connectors at the boards in the head. Many were brittle or weak on my game. It has performed solid ever since.
I've rebuilt a lot of the Bally and Stern driver boards and haven't had to replace an lm323 yet. Don't know who said you have too.
If you haven't done the ground and 5v jumper mod I'd do that before swapping that voltage regulator.

It was someone in this thread. I am getting proper voltage at the rectifier board on all the test points. I repinned the connectors and replaced the header at the SDU but I do not show 5v on either test point on the SDU.

#587 6 months ago

I am really lost now. I replaced lm323 and now I am blowing the fuse for the 12v line. Lm323 shows a short. It looks like there is an insulating gasket on it that is not covering the whole thing now that I replaced it. Would this cause my problem? And if so did I ruin the new component? Any help would be appreciated as I am getting frustrated with this thing.

#588 6 months ago

Im hoping CPR will make another run of the playfields.

#589 6 months ago

I pulled lm323 and the short went away. I had it installed upside down. Didnt see polarity so I just put it in. The offset must have made a leg short against itself. I reinstalled and still not showing a short but still blows the fuse. Perhaps I fried it and that is blowing the fuse?

#590 6 months ago
Quoted from SuperPinball:

Im hoping CPR will make another run of the playfields.

last i read they were moving to a print on demand next year

1 week later
#591 5 months ago

Just picked up a CAD sample so its coming sooner than you might have thought. My original sample was reprinted and sent back to the guy. I don't believe in making copies of copies so each PF must be a reproduction of an ACTUAL PF that came out of a game.

Mike

#592 5 months ago

Flight 2000 voyage start now !!

IMG_6351 (resized).JPG
#593 5 months ago
Quoted from CPR:

Just picked up a CAD sample so its coming sooner than you might have thought. My original sample was reprinted and sent back to the guy. I don't believe in making copies of copies so each PF must be a reproduction of an ACTUAL PF that came out of a game.
Mike

Yes, I’d like to have a nice playfield, so repro would be good as well

3 weeks later
#594 5 months ago

I've been trying to resurrect an f2k and I have a short I just can't figure out. pin 8 on J1 pulls 22-24 amps as soon as the power is turned on. All of the boards are out of the game except the CPU. All of the lamp sockets have been replaced and there aren't even bulb in them yet. I'd prefer to not have to undo the wire bundle to trace it all the way back but I'm running out of options.

I realize it's a long shot but does anyone have any idea's on this?

#595 5 months ago
Quoted from pinball_ric:

I've been trying to resurrect an f2k and I have a short I just can't figure out. pin 8 on J1 pulls 22-24 amps as soon as the power is turned on. All of the boards are out of the game except the CPU. All of the lamp sockets have been replaced and there aren't even bulb in them yet. I'd prefer to not have to undo the wire bundle to trace it all the way back but I'm running out of options.
I realize it's a long shot but does anyone have any idea's on this?

Is there a way to isolate whether it's in the head,on the play-field or the coin-door?

#596 5 months ago

The wire goes into the bundle that goes to the playfield. I can tone out a few places on the playfield but I've scoured the entire thing and all of the light sockets on the underside of the playfield have been replaced. As far as I can tell it doesn't go into the backbox and it definitely isn't on the coindoor. I don't understand how the circuit is even getting completed. The other thing is even when it's pulling ~24 amps through the one wire none of the fuses ever pop. At that amount of current I'd think one would blow. I have 2 meters and they both read the same and I've checked other wires and they read a more normal current.

I wish this game had a detailed wiring schematic.

#597 5 months ago
Quoted from pinball_ric:

I've been trying to resurrect an f2k and I have a short I just can't figure out. pin 8 on J1 pulls 22-24 amps as soon as the power is turned on. All of the boards are out of the game except the CPU. All of the lamp sockets have been replaced and there aren't even bulb in them yet. I'd prefer to not have to undo the wire bundle to trace it all the way back but I'm running out of options.
I realize it's a long shot but does anyone have any idea's on this?

I assume you are talking Pin 8 on J-1 on the MPU.

Per the F2K drawing On MPU (A4)...A4-J1-8 is not used.

Can you provide a more defined position for the wire in question?

Also, what color is the wire you are looking at?

#598 5 months ago
Quoted from cottonm4:

I assume you are talking Pin 8 on J-1 on the MPU.
Per the F2K drawing On MPU (A4)...A4-J1-8 is not used.
Can you provide a more defined position for the wire in question?
Also, what color is the wire you are looking at?

Sorry I meant the rectifier board. It is labeled as "feature lamps" and goes to inserts.

#599 5 months ago
Quoted from pinball_ric:

Sorry I meant the rectifier board. It is labeled as "feature lamps" and goes to inserts.

Rectifier board is A2

A2-J1-pin 1 is a red wire. This is the power wire for all of your GI lights. A2-J1-8 is a white wire. This is the return wire for all of your GI lights.

A2-J1 also has a blue wire that is the return wire for all of your feature lights. And each feature light has it own power wire coming from the lamp board.

It sounds like you have replaced some light sockets.

I’m guessing that you hooked up one of those wires incorrectly.

#600 5 months ago

The short has been present since before doing any work. Other than replacing the rectifier board. The original was bad. A lot of the light sockets were "fixed" someone soldering the bases. I assumed one of those was botched but they have all been replaced.

Currently the wire on J1-8 is blue or violet. Hard to tell. This wire had burned up on the connector at least once before so this has probably been going on for awhile.

I have a 2nd f2k I am also working on and I am pretty sure the wire is the same color on there. I will double check as soon as I get the chance

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