(Topic ID: 116305)

Flash - too many problems - better to sell as project or part out

By Flippingr8

9 years ago


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  • 54 posts
  • 23 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 8 years ago by Cyrus1525
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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There are 54 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.
#1 9 years ago

I have a Flash that has been nothing but a bunch of trouble since I've bought it in 2005 (for about $1,300). Middle segments of all displays have been weak and don't show up until warmed up for about 20 minutes, even with new Pinscore displays that I just put into it (for about $180 I think), sound board has caused problems, inserts are cupped, play field is fairly worn, and now that I've rebuilt flippers two have stopped working. I know a lot about basic repairs but this one has just worn my patience and I'm tired of looking at it and ready to move on. Question is, is it financially better to part one of these things out, or sell it as a project? Backglass is fair, plastics are good. Thanks!

#2 9 years ago

What are you looking to get for it as a project?

#3 9 years ago

A worn, non working, but non-acid-damaged Flash will fetch $250 all day long.

Add in the Pinscore and you might ask $400

#4 9 years ago

Yeah, unfortunately you're going to end up upside down on this one about any way you cut the dice. Honestly, you might get the most mileage keeping your displays for another game, parting and using the parts on other games of your own you restore going forward and selling what little you can (transformer will bring something, cabinet might if decent, plastics, etc.).

#6 9 years ago

Have you followed vids guide to bullet proof this game?

#7 9 years ago

If you do decide to part it out I would be interested in some parts!

3 weeks later
#8 9 years ago

Sorry about the delay - was on vacation. I'm thinking $700 for the whole thing, including the new Pinscore displays (I already threw out the old ones) and an extra sound board and new flipper coil. Attached are a few pictures and here is a link to a whole bunch of them on the web.

https://www.icloud.com/photostream/#A15Uzl7VG0Nxoy

The cabinet is in excellent shape - I bought this Flash from Classic Arcades in PA, and they resprayed and stenciled the cabinet just before I bought it. Playfield is meh - all inserts are cupped, cracking of the finish all throughout the play field, but not much in the way of bald spots. Plastics are pretty good. Legs look good (I think resprayed by Classic Arcades). Inside cabinet is very clean. Backglass has some worn areas around displays and a few other scratched areas but isn't too bad and there isn't any flaking. It lights up and the flippers used to work but after I rebuilt them they just buzz and I'm tired of trying to figure out what is wrong. New sound card I bought is installed but isn't making the background noise like it used to. GI is all working. No acid damage on boards. Coin mechs are not 100% any more. Despite new blue Pinscore displays, middle segments of all displays have always (since I bought it in 2005) been very weak and take about 20 minutes of warm up to fully brighten up like the rest of the digits. I don't know why, but I'm tired of trying to figure it out. Must be a board issue.

This would be a local pickup only machine - I'm about 25 miles due west of Milwaukee, WI. Would have to help me get it up the stairs from the basement and into your vehicle.

If I don't sell it, I think I'm just going to part it out. Any parts in particular that people are interested in? I'm not going to ship anything massive like the backglass or cabinet, though.

Thanks

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#9 9 years ago

Not trying to rain on your parade but 7-bills might be a tad high for even a fully working Flash. The displays and decent backglass do help but you might be better off just fixing it. I suggest you re-flow the header pins on your boards (sounds like cold solder joints causing display issues) and replace that 40-pin interconnect - my guess is that will take care of most of the problems. Get it working and then sell it if it still bothers you.

-10
#10 9 years ago

This Flash is currently being parted out if anyone is interested. Items are currently going up for sale on eBay - user name is macpinballnut. If anyone is interested in the cabinet, head, legs, backbox and / or backglass let me know. They will all be local pickup only (30 miles west of Milwaukee). Thanks.

#11 9 years ago

Your displays are likely a very minor issue on the CPU board.

If you'd like to save it, let's talk. I can get the boards going. You're going to lose your shirt parting out a game that is pick up only... you'd do better selling the whole game as pick up only.

#12 9 years ago

I agree with John...generally speaking, a game should only be parted out if there's no chance of saving it, or if particular pieces are trashed (like say a playfield) with no hope of finding a replacement. This game looks like it could be saved pretty easily. I'm not very good with repairing games but there are lots of people both here, and in the Milwaukee area, that are.

Unfortunately, given your initial investment you're going to lose money on this game no matter what you do. It's really a matter of whether you want to lose money and part out a game, or just lose money. I beg you to think about not parting out this game.

Dave

10
#13 9 years ago

Hell I'll do the cpu and driver at cost if it'll save the game. If you are interested, PM me.

#14 9 years ago

There's no sense in parting this game out; you're looking at minor issues that are very possible to resolve.

Offer a case of beer for any local Pinsider who will help you with the repairs.

John already offered to do your board work at cost; I would ABSOLUTELY take him up on his generous offer, and save the game!

#15 9 years ago

Don't part her out....she can be saved!

#16 9 years ago
Quoted from johnwartjr:

Hell I'll do the cpu and driver at cost if it'll save the game. If you are interested, PM me.

Pretty nice offer right there.

#17 9 years ago

I've seen this scenario play out countless times:

guy overpays for machine.
machine develops issue (on its own or from being incorrectly 'fixed')
can't\won't learn to properly fix or have fixed
after fishing no more than 3 days for someone to overpay for project, parts it out due to frustration.

Even after being offered help and services to assist to get this pin repaired, guy still would rather part it. wow....

I would have been interested in the whole thing because the issues are very minor and easy to fix - however I would only be in at a price that would make sense for a non-working flash project. Like I stated earlier, 7-bills was more than fully working flash pins fetch around here...

I'm going to be keeping my eye on the OP - he's got a few machines in his collection that will develop issues at some point and we'll probably see this play out again.

#18 9 years ago

Ugh...all the parts are listed on ebay....drop target assemblies have been cut out of machine like a gutted trout... so sad, another pin with minor issues trashed.

#19 9 years ago

hopefully they will never sell...

there is a special place in pinball hell for people who part out fixable machines... and there is a special inner sanctum there for people who get offered FREE assistance and still part it out...

#20 9 years ago
Quoted from Flippingr8:

This Flash is currently being parted out if anyone is interested. Items are currently going up for sale on eBay - user name is macpinballnut. If anyone is interested in the cabinet, head, legs, backbox and / or backglass let me know. They will all be local pickup only (30 miles west of Milwaukee). Thanks.

Wow, that's pretty messed up. If a game developing MINOR issues that many people here could sort through in an afternoon prompts you to destroy a perfectly nice game, you are ABSOLUTELY in the wrong hobby.

Sell the rest of your games before the same fate befalls them, and play on location.

#21 9 years ago
Quoted from Collin:

Wow, that's pretty messed up. If a game developing MINOR issues that many people here could sort through in an afternoon prompts you to destroy a perfectly nice game, you are ABSOLUTELY in the wrong hobby.
Sell the rest of your games before the same fate befalls them, and play on location.

amen bruddah amen...

#22 9 years ago

I don't mean to pile on, but this is the most genuinely fucking depressing thread I've ever seen on this forum.

That game was VERY fixable.

#23 9 years ago

C'mon guys, I'm sure mschatenmd is plenty frustrated without everyone piling on, making him feel worse.

Flash is the 3rd most common game ever produced, so even the opening bids are too high on his items.

So instead of a public flogging, let's GENTLY encourage him to reconsider the parting out (like by sending him a PM with your offer of help to fix the game).

Like I always say, let's not blame the victim....

#24 9 years ago

It's already had wiring harnesses cut.

The Flash is the victim here

#25 9 years ago
Quoted from Collin:

It's already had wiring harnesses cut.

Really?????????

Why The f would he cut the harnesses when he knows how to take boards out of a game?

#26 9 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

C'mon guys, I'm sure mschatenmd is plenty frustrated without everyone piling on, making him feel worse.
Flash is the 3rd most common game ever produced, so even the opening bids are too high on his items.
So instead of a public flogging, let's GENTLY encourage him to reconsider the parting out (like by sending him a PM with your offer of help to fix the game).
Like I always say, let's not blame the victim....

sorry vid, i pretty much always agree with what you have to say, but in this case he deserves the flogging... he got offered help repeatedly, and was encouraged to not kill it...

and then decided to hack it apart anyway...

every time a pin is parted out an angel loses it's wings...

#27 9 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Really?????????
Why would he cut the harnesses when he knows how to take boards out of a game?

can even see the cutters in the pic...

image.jpgimage.jpg

#28 9 years ago

Alright then.

Let's take this to it's only logical conclusion:

I'm requesting to Robin that anyone who even bids on any part of that vivisected game, be banned from Pinside - permanently.

#29 9 years ago

i second the motion from my esteemed colleague...

13
#30 9 years ago

goodbye flash.pnggoodbye flash.png

Gone...but not forgotten

#31 9 years ago

I'm having a few people over for a mini-tournament this evening; we'll have a drink to toast the memory of that Flash.

Good night sweet prince, we hardly knew ye.

#32 9 years ago

Should also find and flog the gouging a$$ that sold it to him for $1300 in the first place.

#33 9 years ago
Quoted from wayout440:

Should also find and flog the gouging a$$ that sold it to him for $1300 in the first place.

edit: oops... he got it from classic arcades 10 years ago... i have no idea whether or not that was fair pricing or not at the time...

#34 9 years ago

What should one be worth now? Seller I picked one up from recently, was getting flooded with calls from people telling him it was worth $1500 CAD fully working and cleaned up.

Tim

#35 9 years ago
Quoted from nagamitsu:

What should one be worth now? Seller I picked one up from recently, was getting flooded with calls from people telling him it was worth $1500 CAD fully working and cleaned up.
Tim

You can find working ones all day long on Craigslist for $700 USD.

I saw a completely re-manufactured one, with new cab, mint backglass, clearcoated playfield, new plastics and LED displays sell for $2500 last year.

They made like 20,000 of them, so there are 100s for sale every day.

Super easy to work on, super easy to find parts for, a great beginner's pin.

#36 9 years ago
Quoted from ccotenj:

edit: oops... he got it from classic arcades 10 years ago... i have no idea whether or not that was fair pricing or not at the time...

Considering System 11 prices are generally right around that price, and I doudbt those cupped inserts on the Flash probably didn't happen within recent years...IMO that Flash would have been substantially overpriced for its condition. That's just my opinion.

#37 9 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

You can find working ones all day long on Craigslist for $700 USD.
I saw a completely re-manufactured one, with new cab, mint backglass, clearcoated playfield, new plastics and LED displays sell for $2500 last year.
They made like 20,000 of them, so there are 100s for sale every day.
Super easy to work on, super easy to find parts for, a great beginner's pin.

Wish any pin was readily available all day long like that up here. Got a good deal on this one, but deals are few and far between. Would like to get a project TAF, no intention paying $4000+

Tim

#38 9 years ago

Just sad. It takes a hell of long time to part out a pin. How many hours will you have in taking it apart, shooting photos, listing the parts on ebay, answering peoples questions, packaging and shipping the parts? How many unsaleable parts will you have left that will just go in the trash?

If you worked it out on a per hour basis I think you would find that it would have been much cheaper to just sell the pin for a few hundred less and save yourself all of the time and effort.

If you were willing to just throw the old displays that likely worked instead of selling them you can't be that concerned about a few hundred dollars one way or the other.

#39 9 years ago

A game that has survived for 37 years is destroyed just because of a few minor problems that could have otherwise been brought back to health from free offers for help from the community in order to save it. Ugh...

What a sad day. Another perfectly good pin that will be no more. Even though there were a lot of them on day one, every day fewer and fewer of them actually exist.

That's like sending a classic car to the junk yard just because one of the windshield wipers stopped working.

#40 9 years ago

I bought mine last summer for $750. I guess I should've trashed it when the upper right flipper was giving me trouble.

What a waste.

#41 9 years ago
Quoted from wayout440:

Considering System 11 prices are generally right around that price, ...IMO that Flash would have been substantially overpriced for its condition.

But the game came from a dealer.

You always pay 2x from a dealer, because you get the handholding, the "free" delivery and leveling, the 90 day warranty.....

Just like you pay 2x for a 1967 Mustang from "Classic Auto Showrooms", than you would from a CL ad...two different prices, two different markets served.

#42 9 years ago

I see your point. So like the car example, some problems now not necessarily a reason to part of the car either.

#43 9 years ago

i still can't wrap my brain around the fact that someone who has been a member of pinside for EIGHT years (and obviously has owned pins longer than that) would wantonly kill a machine...

not only kill it, but brutalize it...

#44 9 years ago

It would at least make sense to part the pin out if you were going to make more money, but I am guessing the seller is going to lose more money by parting this pin compared to just selling it as it was. Overall it looked like a nice looking Flash. If it was close to me I would have happily paid $400-500 for it, it would have taken me a lazy weekend to get it working well, but I would have had a pretty nice Flash when I was done.

By parting it out how much could you hope to make? Lose 10% to ebay fees. Most of the parts are just not going to sell or they will sell for a couple of dollars. So you are left with the boards, the backglass which you won't ship so it will be hard sell, some used playfield plastics. Sadly, your nice cabinet will probably go in the trash. Most of the parts that I replace on a pin I don't want used ones(used flipper assemblies?) and the other parts don't go bad (I have not had many drop target assemblies go break, maybe a coil or target, but I am not buying them used).

I can't get over the time it will take. Figure at least one hour per part to remove it, take a photo, list it, deal with possible buyers, wrap it, and ship it. I don't mind working for free when I am doing something I enjoy, but I would classify parting out a pin that I have become angry at as "work" and would want to earn a decent hourly rate for that job. Having to wait around for a buyer, possibly months relisting the parts, dealing with questions, what a pain.

#45 9 years ago

Attention anyone else who is considering scrapping a machine, please at least give the community a chance to help out with some advice/instruction before giving up...
It might be as easy as this https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/flash-almost-fixed-help-please#post-2262730

1 week later
#46 9 years ago

Well clearly I don't know what I am talking about. The OP sold many of the large parts that I figured would be unsaleable and is coming out better than I expected.

By my bad math the OP is at ~$675 in ebay sales for this pin with ~$100-150 in listed parts left. I will figure the S&H is a wash for the OP. Take off 10% for ebay fees and figure the OP is at ~$700 total if everything sells that is listed. The OP only had to take a pin apart, photograph, list all of those parts, sell them, get paid, package them, and ship them. The OP only had to do this ~20-30 times (I did not see how many unique buyers were involved).

Someone tell me if I am missing something, but this does not look like a great deal for the OP. I would have probably been happier to just wait for the right buyer as it was for $500 or instead of spending all of the above listed time in parting the pin out just fix the damn thing and sell it for $800+, it was a nice looking Flash with a nice cabinet, good BG and fancy new displays.

I get parting out pins that are a mess to make parts available and recoup money, but this looks like a loss all around to me.

I do feel bad shitting all over the OP for parting out his pin. It is none of my business what anyone does with their stuff. But I figured it was worth discussing the topic of if parting a pin like this really makes sense. I know I have struggled with the decision to part out pins in the past and I am sure many others do as well. The only time I have been able to justify it is for a solid state bowler where I can't even get an offer for the whole machine that is more than I would get for just the boards.

#47 9 years ago

This thread still makes me sad just by seeing it again

#48 9 years ago

Just saw this thread and I want to throw up. OP has Flash listed as "Owned in the Past." Robin should create another category: "Killed in the Past"

Gotta run. My dog has a small cough and we've decided to put her down.

#49 9 years ago
Quoted from beelzeboob:

Just saw this thread and I want to throw up. OP has Flash listed as "Owned in the Past." Robin should create another category: "Killed in the Past"

+1 on that!

Quoted from beelzeboob:

Gotta run. My dog has a small cough and we've decided to put her down.

Geez... I nearly shat myself when I read that one.... Don't mind me. I can be a bit slow on the uptake.

#50 9 years ago

Having played a Flash at the Louisville afterparty, I would've bought this for the $700ish the OP will be getting for parts if it were local, especially since it has the nice displays. Probably wouldn't have been a wise investment on my part, but it's a good game, and it didn't have to die.

Having actually spent time on a Flash, this is even more sad.

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