(Topic ID: 174771)

Flash owners club...official..

By Milltown

7 years ago


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  • 984 posts
  • 141 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 26 days ago by epeabs
  • Topic is favorited by 69 Pinsiders

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You're currently viewing posts by Pinsider stephan28.
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#426 3 years ago

Hello there! I just acquired a Flash pinball machine that is in need of some work for my son. This is my introduction into the pinball world and I was referred to this site as a great resource.

Please excuse my lack of knowledge and proper terminology but I am here to learn and to make a valiant attempt to get this machine up and running properly again.

My first hurdle was that the 2.5 Amp SB fuse was blowing. I quickly found that the left bumper solenoid (above the left flipper) was activated constantly just before the fuse would blow. I removed the wires from that solenoid, replaces the fuse and it no longer trips the fuse. However, when I read across the solenoid it indicates ~4.6 ohms which seems nominal.

At least the machine will stay powered on and several of the solenoids work for a period of time with that one solenoid disconnected. At some point things will stop working until I hear a reset and they will work again for a while. Strange.

Digging a little deeper I found that the free game knocker solenoid looked burned up and I found a wire disconnected off of it. Probably from when it got really hot. It is shorted out and has less than 1 ohm of resistance across the terminals.

Needless to say I ordered 2 solenoids and I am awaiting their arrival.

I’ve briefly read the available manual online and it make no mention of the device (that I saw) in front of the sound board and above the
tilt sensor pendulum. There’s a little track with a pinball and a switch at the end. What is that for?

Also on the circuit board in the upper left corner of the cabinet it looks like there used to be circuitry/IC’s that were removed at some point?

I was also wondering how I can tell the year/revision of the machine. I did find a tag that says cabinet 13011. Update: I found the serial # 377986.

I’ve added a few photos to help show what I’m asking about.

Thank you!
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#427 3 years ago
Quoted from slochar:

Before getting into all the other things, be aware that the slam switches will also cause what looks like a power issue. There no indication of a slam it just resets. There's one on the coin door and one under the playfield.

Can you explain the slam switches to me, where they are located and what they look like please.

Just a noob trying to learn.

Thanks!

Added over 4 years ago:

Update: found them.

#429 3 years ago
Quoted from clodpole:

>"I’ve briefly read the available manual online and it make no mention of the device (that I saw) in front of the sound board and above the tilt sensor pendulum. There’s a little track with a pinball and a switch at the end. What is that for?
I was also wondering how I can tell the year/revision of the machine. I did find a tag that says cabinet 13011. Update: I found the serial # 377986."<
It's OK to not know anything - you'll know a lot more when you get to the other end of fixing your game. The track with ball is a "ball tilt" - if you pick up the front of the machine, that ball will roll to the other end of the slanted track and complete a circuit - registering a tilt and stopping scoring for the ball you were playing.
The game was built in 1978/9 and its revision has to do with the green stickers on the ROM chips on the bottom of your MPU board. You can read more about those higher up in this big thread.

Thank you for your reply! I see from your profile that you are in the Renton area. I live near Mill Creek so we are “neighbors” in a sense!

Thanks for the information. I started reading through this entire thread but haven’t finished yet. I thought that the captured ball in the track was a tilt sensor of some sort but I also noticed that it would never actuate the switch. I think a previous owner bent the switch bracket a bit to avoid it being actuated.

Any insight into the board that I took a picture of with the lower left area appearing to be re-worked to remove some integrated circuits? I’ve searched the web looking at the insides of other Flash pinball machines and I’ve noticed that most of them don’t look like the one I have. I’m not sure if mine is an oddball or if they used several different boards and configurations during production.

Thanks again!

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#431 3 years ago
Quoted from slochar:

The board was likely taken from a system 4 game that used the proms in those locations and had a socket added to u14 to put the new eprom for flash in it.
Very common repair/recommended upgrade as the old Proms that were in those sockets are even more obsolete than normal eproms of the era.

Thanks! So basically this is an updated board so it shouldn’t be an issue. In a way it’s a good thing that it was updated at some point.

I noticed that the proms for the flippers have a green sticker and the one labeled “Flash” indicates either u14 or v14. Any significance in those markings?

Another question: I’ve got two solenoids currently disconnected. Is it ok to apply power with those disconnected and the wires isolated or might that cause an issue somehow? I ordered some replacement solenoids and I’d like to do some more troubleshooting while I’m awaiting parts. Thanks again!

#433 3 years ago
Quoted from clodpole:

Flash started out with Williams system 4 MPUs, but part way through the production run switched to system 6. The photos you've seen are probably of system 6 MPUs, which have a different battery location for one thing.
You can tell your MPU board had battery corrosion around the lower left corner, where you noticed ICs have been removed. It's possible the corrosion affected the left side of the driver board below as well. The top pin or second one down, if I remember correctly, in the white 8-pin connector at the upper left of your driver board is the switch input for the left kicker - the solenoid you found burned up. On my Flash, that connector was corroded and broken; not making any contact. Thus, my kicker wouldn't fire at all. I don't know how a defective connector there would lock the solenoid on, but it might be worth disconnecting that plug and looking to see if there's corrosion on the tiny metal crimp pin in the top hole.
And yes, Renton. Maybe we'll be able to connect some time in the future.

Updated:

Thank you for your reply. For clarification, initially the game was blowing the F2 2 amp slow blow 28 VDC fuse for the solenoids. I noticed that the left kicker was actuated constantly until the fuse blew. I removed the wires for that solenoid and the fuse no longer blows. Upon further investigation I found that the free game knocker solenoid appeared to be burned up and found the single wire (I think green) not connected to the solenoid. I tested that solenoid and it’s a dead short across the terminals. The left kicker solenoid did not look burned up and measures about 4.6 ohms across the solenoid.

Basically the knocker solenoid is toast, the left slingshot (Kicker) solenoid was acting up. I can’t say when exactly the knocker fried as I didn’t discover it until after I removed the wiring from the left slingshot (kicker) solenoid. However, I never smelled anything or saw any smoke so I believe it was that way when I received the game and just didn’t notice it until later.

I just received 2 replacement solenoids and I will install those and see what happens next.

Update: I replaced both the left slingshot solenoid and the free game knocker solenoid. The good news is that when we fired it up we had good sound and sound effects which we didn’t have before. The bad news is that after awhile the solenoid fuse blew again. More troubleshooting ensued and we noticed that the replacement left slingshot solenoid was getting warm. I removed and isolated the power wire from that solenoid so we could test everything out. We noticed that when the bank of 3 drop targets were actuated the game faulted out. We reset everything and tried the bank of three drop targets again. This time we saw some smoke come off of the driver board just below the large relay and immediately turned off the game and unplugged the power. Now I’m at a loss at what to do.

Do you still own tour Flash pinball machine?

Thanks again!

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#435 3 years ago
Quoted from reconsider59:

Hey everyone,
Just wanted to drop in with an update that my Flash is almost fully operational now, thanks to everyone's advice! Special thanks to koji, slochar, and pizzaman13 for their responses to my sometimes inane questions.
Really appreciate y'all!

Glad to hear that! I’m just starting on a unit I acquired the other day. My first pinball machine so a steep learning curve. Fortunately I know a thing or two about wiring and electricity so that helps but I still have a TON to learn about what makes these things work.

#437 3 years ago
Quoted from clodpole:

Last first: yes, we have our Flash and it's happy. It had lots of battery alkaline damage in the neighborhood of where your mpu and driver boards have it. I attempted to repair the damage, but our game still did things like you describe, which in our case was due mostly to shorted trasistors and so forth. So, we bought new mpu and driver boards from pinballpcb.com. They solved the problems we hoped they would solve, and allowed us to troubleshoot remaining problems.
One of those was the left kicker doing nothing, which traced to a broken connector at the driver board end. Another was drop targets which wouldn't reset, which was due to wrong wiring and incorrect tension on the horseshoe contacts. Before we had working boards, those things were hidden in the bigger mess. Anyway, I bet your smoke is from a short due to battery alkaline damage, but that's just a guess from long distance. BTW, that large relay runs the flippers.

Great, I'm glad your game is up and running. I definitely have some gremlins playing around inside the machine. I disconnected the left slingshot/kicker (it likes to be engaged all the time) and I had the machine up and running pretty good, everything seemed to be working except the left kicker which I had disabled. However, when I let my son play it, it started acting all wonky again. The left pop bumper, the spinner, and one rollover started killing the game again. All of which had issues in the recent past.

I have decided to box all 4 boards up (MPU, Driver, Power Supply, & Sound) and send them to Chris Hibler for fixing, upgrading and testing. That way when I receive them back I know that anything else is related to to physical machine.

I learned from Chris that the large lighting resistors always get hot and the discoloration on the board is "normal." Still not really happy with that answer but he's been doing this a long time.

I've already replaced the burned out solenoid for the "free game" knocker and the solenoid for the left kicker/slingshot (this one was probably good as it tests good with my meter) but after I replaced the "free game" solenoid I got the sound effects back.

Progress.....I know it's going to take some time and patience.

#439 3 years ago
Quoted from Joydivision:

I have been refurbishing a recently acquired Flash. It has a system 6 CPU & I noticed the ROMS were the "Yellow" version ROMS.
From what I have read their were 2 yellow versions for system 4 & a green version for system 6 (possibly the later yellow version with some system 6 games as mine had the later yellow ROM set)
It was documented that the only difference functionality wise between the yellow & green ROM set was the setting for background sound & a couple of other settings.
I tried a set of Green ROMS to compare to see if their was any difference with how the game plays & sounds. I did notice one difference with a sound between the two sets that had not been mentioned anywhere previously. It didn't matter how the settings were adjusted - their were two different sounds between the sets.
The first vid is with the Green ROM set - note the 10K is awarded with individual sounds, the second vid is with the yellow ROM set & the same 10k is awarded with a single sound (which I prefer)
Green ROM set is 1486 1 (3 Rom set)
Yellow ROM set is 0486 2 (3 Rom set)

I’m working on one that I just acquired too. The unit I have has the green ROMS on what I believe is a system 4 MPU board and makes the same sounds as your 1st video.

Good luck with your project!

2 weeks later
#442 3 years ago

Ok, I was doing a once over of the wiring underneath the playfield and I found a broken component that attaches to one of the pop bumper switches. It is circled in the photo.

The markings that I can read on it are:

22K
+10VDC
7902

Is this a capacitor? If so, what is the proper replacement?

Also, I was wondering, in a pinch, can I solder the lead back onto the capacitor? The wire lead broke off at the “top” where it exits the component and the remaining lead is still connected to the pop bumper switch.
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#446 3 years ago
Quoted from Catch86:

Yeah. I don't have this machine but do any of the other pop bumpers have this cap?

Thanks! Yes, they all have it. Just one has a broken lead.

#448 3 years ago
Quoted from lowbeau67:

had to replace the one on right slingshot. it wasnt as strong as left and when
i investigated i found it and it was broken off. bought about 10 of them .
when replaced the right slingshot worked great.

Thanks! Now I just have to source them.

#449 3 years ago
Quoted from Stephan28:

Thanks! Now I just have to source them.

This looks like a suitable replacement. However, from the photo I can’t see the polarity.

https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/C22M10VA

How does the voltage play into it? Can I get a higher voltage (I.E. 50V) to replace a 10V? Is one preferred over the other?

#451 3 years ago

In sticking with the OEM tantalum type this is the closest I could find, it should work.

Thanks for all of the help!

Siemens
ST513 Series
Sealed Tantalum
22uF, 35V, 10%
Military grade
Axial leads

#453 3 years ago
Quoted from Catch86:

Yeah it'll work but when tantalum caps go bad they burn. I would never put one of those in. But hey, do what you like.

Didn’t know that. Crap.....

#454 3 years ago

Anyone have any experience or input on using this product? Looks like it might be a good solution to my wear area but I’m not sure if it’s the right thing to do.

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#457 3 years ago
Quoted from retroware99:

I purchased the same product. My machine had about the same amount of wear as yours. I ended up only using the arrow and circle decals. The large center decal color was bit off and I wasn't sure I wanted that look. The machine is somewhat of a family heirloom an I didn't want to change it that much.
In addition to the decals, I added added a play protector from playfield-protectors.com. I've been very happy with the product, it 'fixed' my sunken insert problem and I don't have to worry anymore about additional wear. The machine plays just as fast as before. I was a bit worried about the rollovers but that too has been fine.

Wow, good to know, thank you! I too have the sunken inserts. The playfield protector seems like a good idea too. Does it actually go over the rollovers or is it cut out around them? Was it difficult to install? Did you install the arrow and circle decals over or under the protector?

Any photos that you’d be willing to share with me? Thanks again!

Thanks again!

#458 3 years ago
Quoted from Joydivision:

I haven't used this decal, but I personally their is no way I would use this on that playfield, I don't think that playfield is that bad. Also, If it is removed later for playfield restoration it will take off paint.
If it was mostly down to wood in the area & looked really terrible, maybe an option.
If that playfield had the magic eraser treatment & nicely touched up & finished with a playfield protector it could come up great & fix all the problems with cupped inserts ect as well, If you are not familiar with what a "magic eraser" can do to improve a playfield it's worth reading up so you know it's an option . But not everyone is able to do or wants to do this.

Thank you! I’ll definitely look into the magic eraser treatment and you’re the second one to mention the playfield protector so that might be the wise way to go.

I don’t necessarily want (at this point) to restore it but I also don’t want it to degrade any further.

Thanks again!

#460 3 years ago
Quoted from Joydivision:

If you can live with the wear for now, a protector is the best way to go to stop any futher playfield wear. It will look & play much better & you can review what you want to do later on, this way their are no regrets with applying something like that decal.
Here is just one thread on using Magic erasers.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/cleaning-dirty-playfield-with-magic-eraser
Here is how one area of my Firepower playfield turned out after using a magic eraser, small touch up & Novus 2 polish. Most was engrained dirt nothing else but the eraser would remove.[quoted image][quoted image]

Wow, very nice, good job!

Excuse my lack of knowledge but how do the playfield protectors attach to the playfield? I presume it’s not sticky like the Mylar.

#464 3 years ago
Quoted from retroware99:

Here are a few pictures of my "poor man's" restore. To clean up the playfield, I used magic eraser with a bit of alcohol. I used decals to clean up the 3K, 5K and 100 triangles near the top together with the kick out score lamps. I tried using them a few other places but I was getting bubbles, probably due to a lack of surface preparation so I pulled them up. I replaced all of the plastics and put on new drop target and spinner stickers.
I also replaced the back glass. Both the plastics and back glass were a bit more pastel than the originals but they match each other fairly well.
I then added a playfield protector. I took a couple of close up shots to show how it is cut out around the rollovers.[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

Very nicely done! What is your opinion on the playfield protector?

#466 3 years ago
Quoted from retroware99:

Truth be told, I was a bit skeptical of the playfield protector idea before I installed it. But, I've been very pleasantly surprised. Both my son and I think its a big step up from the old, sunken insert PF. I do however seem to get more airballs than before. But all in all, I've been very pleased.

Thank you! I’ve decided that my #1 priority is to get the game functional first. My boards are currently being worked on by a magician. In the interim I’m checking over the wiring and cleaning/waxing the playfield. Once the boards are back I’ll see how the game behaves.

If all goes well, I’ll go ahead and get the protector.

2 months later
#481 3 years ago
Quoted from clodpole:

I had reason to replace the PCBs, horseshoes and guides in my 5-drop unit. While I was at it, and with the help of a friend, I cobbled together a set of red targets with correct Flash artwork. My game was early enough that all its posts are red instead of the later blue, and I wanted to get some more red onto the playfield. This is what it came out like:
[quoted image][quoted image]

The red looks awesome! Good job!

1 month later
#502 3 years ago
Quoted from clodpole:

Plunger lane guide adjustment is dicey; if you have time, please check my "help me" thread:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/flash-plunger-lane-guide-help-please#post-6017194

Thanks, I may have to tweak mine a little bit too.

2 weeks later
#504 3 years ago
Quoted from clodpole:

stephan28 and I have each experienced complete sound cutoff in the last 2 weeks. His game has rebuilt Williams boards and mine has all new pinballpcb.com boards. His game stays silent until the game is powered off and left to "rest", mine drops background sound (and sometimes all sound) until some big scoring event occurs which has a sound associated with it, and then all the sound comes back on. (stephan28, correct me if I described your symptoms wrong)
Any thoughts? Has your Flash ever done this?

Just to add a little tidbit about my situation. I’ve used two sound boards. One that was rebuilt, and a brand new unit from nvramweebly.com. Both do EXACTLY the same thing so it isn’t the sound cards. After some time the background sound shuts off and won’t return until a power cycle. A quick one won’t cut it. It needs to be off for at least a few minutes. The longer it’s off the longer it will stay on until it cuts out and visa versa.

Oh, and the three other boards on the machine were also completely overhauled.

#506 3 years ago
Quoted from punkin:

My flash has no sound at all for a while now. We make our own sounds during comp, but i'd like to get it fixed up as i need the space, any ideas what to look for?

Do you get anything when you press the test button on the board? It could be anything from speaker, to speaker wires, other wiring or a bad board that needs to be rebuilt.

#511 3 years ago
Quoted from clodpole:

Thanks - I'll snoop around there as well.
Update - Connector J3 (sound board to MPU) was loose. My game seems better, but I would never claim any late-70s solid state game is "fixed".

Great! I hope that fixed yours! Keep me posted.

I’m still battling mine where the background sound just cuts out after a period of time. All other sounds work as they should.

1 week later
#513 3 years ago
Quoted from clodpole:

True Confessions, episode 3: my solenoids shut off last night and I tested the fuse (visually and with multimeter), followed by checking the solenoid input and output power on my beautiful pinballpcb power supply's built-in voltmeter. Output power was only 2.0 volts instead of 28-38. I wrote piballpcb's Jeff, who asked me to test the fuse again.
Turns out I had confused connector J3 and fuse F2, and tested the wrong fuse. Once the visually-OK but bad fuse at F2 was replaced, power came back up! I love having that built-in voltmeter (and a kind, patient vendor)!
[quoted image]

We’re all human and prone to making mistakes! Glad you resolved it.

Any idea why the fuse blew in the first place?

#515 3 years ago
Quoted from clodpole:

Thanks - hopefully not too many of my mistakes will require a vendor to talk me through what I did wrong. Anyway, no - I don't know what caused the fuse to blow. I have played a few games with a new fuse installed, and so far things work.
Have you made any progress on your sound problem?
I have another game (Star Explorer - a 3/4 scale home game from 1977) which has a persistent problem too. It's a nuisance, as it waits a minute or more before giving you a new ball. With lots of helpful advice from experts, and many(!) new components installed on the boards, it refuses to be fixed. It makes me more sympathetic to your sound problem and that of others with suicidal games.

Thanks for the moral support. No, I haven’t figured out the sound issue on my Flash yet. I do know that it isn’t the sound board as both of my sound boards do the same exact thing. I don’t think it is a wiring issue so that leaves me with a board issue. I suspect that there is a weak component or a solder joint that is causing the problem.

However, all the boards were refurbished so it will be hard to isolate. I’d have to know where the background sound comes from, what controls it and probably need an oscilloscope to monitor the output to see where it drops off. I just don’t have the tools or technical knowledge to figure this out at the moment. If someone knew the path of the background sound and how I could measure it I’d be miles ahead. Surely it can’t be too difficult.

1 week later
#523 3 years ago
Quoted from retroware99:

It looks like it might be the same playfield that sold a couple of months earlier for $200: ebay.com link: Original Williams Flash Pinball Playfield

It certainly does, down to the “wood chip” in the lower left corner and the “water stains” in the lower left area.

#526 3 years ago
Quoted from clodpole:

Interesting...
What I did was spend a couple months cleaning and then hand-restoring the playfield art. Three coats of wax followed by mylar left things looking nice and playing well.
It's not fresh ice rink smooth, but the ball moves correctly and it's fun to play and to look at.

That’s dedication right there. I cleaned mine, waxed it several times and left it at that. I’m no artist so forget painting. My inserts are moderately dished but I just am letting it go as is. Makes it a unique gameplay experience.

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