Thanks for the update!

I just installed a Rottendog MPU327-4 to rule out the original MPU as a contributing factor to the unreliable scoring on the Flash I am working on. It does not make any difference, nearly every target continues to score intermittently during game play but scores 100% if I trigger them with my finger. Inspected head to PF molex connector and the pins all look great along with the MPU 0.156" connectors. Adjusted every switch to a much tighter gap (1/16") and the scoring is improved, but still not perfect. All switches have been cleaned / polished with Flitz and then cleaned again with IPA. Gold looks great, can see my reflection in the contacts.

A few more things I learned:

* Adding 0.047 uF capacitors across the DT outer pad pairs enables the DTs to score 100% but I see phantom scoring during target reset with the original MPU.
* Those same targets fail to reliably score with the Rottendog MPU327-4 - so adding capacitors will not help games with that MPU.
* I tried 0.01 uF capacitors to see if that would still work with the original MPU and eliminate the phantom scoring during target reset and those don't work with the original MPU.

I am not sure what to do next other than start replacing the diodes. Am thinking of moving to the 1N4148s which are much faster than the IN4001s from the factory. I'll report back if I solve this but running out of things to do next! Thanks.

I spoke with a friend who has a Flash and a Harlem Globetrotters, the latter of which has target scoring problems. He replaced target switch diodes and capacitors and thinks he's cured the problem. I haven't gotten that far yet; today I'm adjusting horseshoe contact tension to minimum to see if it helps reset problems.

...a little later.

Some good, some bad: reduced horseshoe tension scores OK and makes for much crisper resets. Unfortunately, the 5-bank still only resets at end-of-ball. However, the 3-bank seems to work correctly!

I don't know; maybe check all the diodes on the 5-bank next? Any suggestions?

I plan to swap the diodes on the 5 bank DT next and see if that helps them score reliably. When I received this flash they would not reset until the end of the ball and cleaning the horseshoes, PCBs and adding tension solved that 100%. So you should be all set once you do this.

Bally games have 0.047 uF capacitors on any switch which is "fast" like pop bumpers and stand up targets. They used 12V capacitors which very often fail and will cause failures on their associated switches. I always replace them all when restoring a Bally game. These Williams games don't use capacitors and from my experience (and others on this thread) they don't work and will cause phantom scoring.

I'll report back once I swap the diodes, I plan to use 4148s because they are faster..

It's funny, my DTs score and don't reset, and yours reset but don't always score. I'll be interested in your results - good luck!

Update... I got my drops to reset correctly! The problem was a cold solder joint.

On each PCB the middle 2 holes carry the daisy chain of connectivity toward the uppermost PCB. Checking connectivity across those got a light until I got to the one in which there's no jumper, but only a diode leading up to the reset control wire. Wiggling it around would occasionally get a very weak light on the connectivity checker, so I removed the solder and redid the connection and things worked. ...for about 3 resets.

I went back through and removed old solder and redid each connection across the daisy chain and now the targets score, drop easily and reset!

Butch Peel once told us that the source of most problems is the simplest, most mechanical thing. It was, in this instance.

Great news! Are they scoring 100% too when they drop every time?

I replaced all 5 diodes on the 5DT bank with 1N4148s and the inconsistent scoring continues, no change. They score 100% if I trigger them with my thumb and maybe 30% during game play. Thinking of removing the pinball and glass on this game and having it be a thumb triggered instead . Not sure what to do next as I have exhausted everything:

* New horseshoes
* New diodes
* New PCBs
* New guides
* Extra tension on all horseshoes including bottom (no contacts) wipers
* All IDC connectors re-pinned
* Original and MPU327-4 MPUs both fail to score reliably for nearly every switch, especially the DTs.

The only thing that would make sense is if there was a 60 Hz AC signal from the power supply which was involved in triggering the MPU to scan the switch banks which was marginal, but I can't find anything like that in the schematics. Will let you know if I ever resolve this. Thanks.

Man, that's frustrating to do all that and still have the problem. My sophisticated troubleshooting method which turned up the bad solder joint was just to wiggle things with a connectivity checker attached. The bad solder joint would just flicker once in a while instead of lighting. I suppose you could try that across the wires and connectors between your drops and the main boards.

Meanwhile, here's a pic of my game, which seems to work after 9 months of slow refurbishing. If I got mine to go, I bet you'll figure yours out eventually.

IMG_1450 (resized).JPG

Game looks great! In my case the solder joints on the PCBs have all been re-soldered (and the interconnect wires refreshed too) but I agree those can be broken too! Enjoy your game and thanks for the feedback.

Thanks! As is common, some of my drop target guides had split screw holes where the PCBs are attached. I discovered that plastic anchors for sheetrock will work as collars to allow original screws to grip.

This one started out 1" long and 3/8" across the collar. I cut it to just cover the split screw fitting and wiggled it on. The screw snugged up OK and the flange doesn't seem to impinge on drop target movement.

IMG_1451 (resized).JPG

IMG_1452 (resized).JPG

IMG_1454 (resized).JPG

Thanks for sharing that tip! Cool idea. The Flash game owner located someone who reproduced the guides with 3D printing and I installed those, but it would have been nice to use your idea too.

Today I was playing with the game adjustments (advance/manual switch) on the coin door and all of the sudden this Flash scored 100% for the for 10 games in a row, never missed one switch or drop target drop. It still has the Rottendog MPU327-4 in it. I can't explain how moving the toggle switch a few times would fix this game, it makes zero sense but it is scoring correctly every time now. Much more fun to play when it actually scores correctly. Did not remove the glass, move the PF or touch anything since the last time playing where it was not scoring reliably. Very mysterious, if I figure out the root cause I'll post back here. Enjoy your game!!!

Interesting. I do recall some weird behavior with what I thought might be a short around the coin door or the wiring from there. I wonder if it could all be related somehow. Anyway, I guess that is great news? It is a fun game for sure, great rules and flow.

Which is worse, not knowing why something doesn't work or not knowing why something does work?

I've got a Flight 2000 that has an "almost reset" behavior that my experienced friends think is due to an old light socket shorting out. I have a bag of 50 new sockets to start putting in to see if I can find the source of the problem. Meanwhile the game works right about 99.5% of the time.

How old are your ROMs? When my machine was approximately 20 years old, it started having several different intermittent random problems. I tried most of the obvious things with no luck. Replacing the ROMs solved everything. As you may know, the original UV erasable ones are charged based and the charge leaks off over the years. Also, did you try replacing the RAM battery? Maybe the RAM somehow got corrupted and when you made an adjustment it got fixed.

Intermittent problems are by far the worst to diagnose. Especially when an MPU suddenly misbehaves, it can be caused by so many things, bad connectors, bad sockets, regulators, capacitors, bad EPROM, 5101 RAM, short circuits, the list goes on. Have had a few games which were intermittent like that and after bulletproofing every item on the list, the game reliability is vastly imporoved.

As an aside, a shorted light socket typically won't cause a MPU reset - it may blow the SCR if it is a controlled lamp, or the GI fuse if it is part of the GI circuit, I have certainly seen both of those issues over the years.

For your Flight 2000, probably best to start with the power supply (15,000 uF cap, connectors (PS and MPU), ground and 5V updates, EPROM and 5101 sockets) to see if that helps.

Thanks for the suggestions, but the original MPU has a fresh set of "Green" ROMs (System 4 MPU), NVRAM installed and new connectors and sockets. The Rottendog MPU-327-4 I am testing has a NVRAM is also new too. Both MPUs showed the same intermittent scoring issue of working perfectly when triggered by my fingers, but intermittently scoring during game play with a ball.

The problem has vanished and the game has played perfectly for the past week. Looked at the coin door, switches and cable/connectors and it all looks great. also tried shorting the switches to see if that would reproduce the issue, but could not reproduce it. I'll post back if I can ever reproduce this and then fix the root cause. Cheers!

Thanks, I'll check the power supply while I'm in there.

Hey everyone,

At a loss for figuring out just what’s causing this “flipper causes scoring” issue on my Flash.

When I hit the left flipper, it scores 1k. When I hit the right, it scores 2k or 3k.

I can’t see any crossed wires or anything...nothing else on the playfield is happening (not advancing bonus or anything).

Any ideas?

You could have some leaf switches which are adjusted too tightly and the vibration of the flipper is triggering them. Try tapping the PF with your fist (careful - don't break anything) - you are trying to shock the PF in a similar way as the flipper vibration to see if you can ever see false scoring. I if your can cause a false score event that would point to a leaf switch adjustment.

pinengineer's idea is good; you might start with the return and outlanes next to the flipppers, since they score 1000 and 2000 when lit.

Found the root cause of the intermittent scoring problem on Flash. The coin mechanisms and other parts are missing on this game. There are tiny leaf switches at the bottom of the mechanisms to register a coin drop. There is a nylon bushing which rotates and actuates these switches. There is a spring which should return the nylon busing to prevent it from closing the leaf switches, but on this game, those springs were not connected to anything. Through normal game handling / opening /closing the coin door, these leaf switches were stuck closed - and it looks like if two of these are stuck closed, something in the game firmware must slow down switch scanning operations and miss switch closures.

If you ever have a intermittent scoring problems on your Flash, besides the normal switch cleaning and adjustments, take a close look at your coin mech leaf switches and make sure they are not stuck closed. So glad to have finally found this!!!!! Thanks again to everyone for your input.

Also I installed a Playfield Protector and Titian rubbers. Game plays much faster and smoother - an excellent upgrade for this title.

Congratulations!

Thanks for this! Indeed, that is totally what was happening. It was strange that it was scoring so haphazardly, and I couldn't figure out why NOTHING ELSE was happening on the playfield...it's because I've played the game so little, and didn't realize that the inner-left-rollover just scores 1k, and that's it. It was somehow scoring once with the left flipper, and two or three times with the right.

Appreciate the help!

Now I think I need to replace the power supply, because after playing for a little while, the game just resets—no tilts or anything, just resets back to the "game over" attract mode. Everything I've found while searching says there's an issue with the 5V power...not sure how to fix that, really, other than replace the board...unless anyone has advice?

Thanks much.

Glad you found the mis-adjusted leaf switch, have seen that many times over the years. Game reset during play can be caused by a number of things including the power supply (weak regulator, AD/DC diodes or filter capacitor), IDC connector problems, bad sockets on the MPU or driver board, and reset circuit problems on the MPU. This Wiki covers many of them:

https://pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Williams_System_3_-_7

I typically start by bulletproofing the power supply, replace the 5V filter capacitor, diodes, board connectors and IDC connectors. On some games like WPCs, the 5V regulator is very often the root cause of game resets, but I don't think that is the case with Williams system 3~7 games. Next I'll look at the MPU and driver board for crappy sockets and replace those along with the 40-pin interconnect pins between the boards (both sides, female and male). If the game is still resetting then it is time to replace the remaining 0.156" IDCs on the MPU. A broken flyback diode on a PF coil can also wreak havoc too but most resets are bad sockets, connectors, filter cap, regulator or the 5V power supply AC->DC diodes.

Good luck!

Before getting into all the other things, be aware that the slam switches will also cause what looks like a power issue. There no indication of a slam it just resets. There's one on the coin door and one under the playfield.

>"I’ve briefly read the available manual online and it make no mention of the device (that I saw) in front of the sound board and above the tilt sensor pendulum. There’s a little track with a pinball and a switch at the end. What is that for?

I was also wondering how I can tell the year/revision of the machine. I did find a tag that says cabinet 13011. Update: I found the serial # 377986."<

It's OK to not know anything - you'll know a lot more when you get to the other end of fixing your game. The track with ball is a "ball tilt" - if you pick up the front of the machine, that ball will roll to the other end of the slanted track and complete a circuit - registering a tilt and stopping scoring for the ball you were playing.

The game was built in 1978/9 and its revision has to do with the green stickers on the ROM chips on the bottom of your MPU board. You can read more about those higher up in this big thread.

The board was likely taken from a system 4 game that used the proms in those locations and had a socket added to u14 to put the new eprom for flash in it.

Very common repair/recommended upgrade as the old Proms that were in those sockets are even more obsolete than normal eproms of the era.

Flash started out with Williams system 4 MPUs, but part way through the production run switched to system 6. The photos you've seen are probably of system 6 MPUs, which have a different battery location for one thing.

You can tell your MPU board had battery corrosion around the lower left corner, where you noticed ICs have been removed. It's possible the corrosion affected the left side of the driver board below as well. The top pin or second one down, if I remember correctly, in the white 8-pin connector at the upper left of your driver board is the switch input for the left kicker - the solenoid you found burned up. On my Flash, that connector was corroded and broken; not making any contact. Thus, my kicker wouldn't fire at all. I don't know how a defective connector there would lock the solenoid on, but it might be worth disconnecting that plug and looking to see if there's corrosion on the tiny metal crimp pin in the top hole.

And yes, Renton. Maybe we'll be able to connect some time in the future.

Hey everyone,

Just wanted to drop in with an update that my Flash is almost fully operational now, thanks to everyone's advice! Special thanks to @koji, @slochar, and Pizzaman13 for their responses to my sometimes inane questions.

Really appreciate y'all!

Last first: yes, we have our Flash and it's happy. It had lots of battery alkaline damage in the neighborhood of where your mpu and driver boards have it. I attempted to repair the damage, but our game still did things like you describe, which in our case was due mostly to shorted trasistors and so forth. So, we bought new mpu and driver boards from pinballpcb.com. They solved the problems we hoped they would solve, and allowed us to troubleshoot remaining problems.

One of those was the left kicker doing nothing, which traced to a broken connector at the driver board end. Another was drop targets which wouldn't reset, which was due to wrong wiring and incorrect tension on the horseshoe contacts. Before we had working boards, those things were hidden in the bigger mess. Anyway, I bet your smoke is from a short due to battery alkaline damage, but that's just a guess from long distance. BTW, that large relay runs the flippers.

I have been refurbishing a recently acquired Flash. It has a system 6 CPU & I noticed the ROMS were the "Yellow" version ROMS.
From what I have read their were 2 yellow versions for system 4 & a green version for system 6 (possibly the later yellow version with some system 6 games as mine had the later yellow ROM set)

It was documented that the only difference functionality wise between the yellow & green ROM set was the setting for background sound & a couple of other settings.

I tried a set of Green ROMS to compare to see if their was any difference with how the game plays & sounds. I did notice one difference with a sound between the two sets that had not been mentioned anywhere previously. It didn't matter how the settings were adjusted - their were two different sounds between the sets.

The first vid is with the Green ROM set - note the 10K is awarded with individual sounds, the second vid is with the yellow ROM set & the same 10k is awarded with a single sound (which I prefer)

Green ROM set is 1486 1 (3 Rom set)
Yellow ROM set is 0486 2 (3 Rom set)

Help me sleep at night; I lie awake wondering why Flash has diodes on its lamp sockets, since it was built for incandescent bulbs. Do you know?

IMG_1537 (resized).JPG

It's a lamp matrix and they are required even if you change to LED's.

22uF 10V capacitor. The left side is the negative and the right is the positive side.

Yeah. I don't have this machine but do any of the other pop bumpers have this cap?

Looks like this is standard.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/flash-owners-clubofficial/page/6#post-5415099

had to replace the one on right slingshot. it wasnt as strong as left and when
i investigated i found it and it was broken off. bought about 10 of them .
when replaced the right slingshot worked great.

You’ll see the polarity when you get it. Higher voltage is fine but it may be a larger size.