Flash Gordon
Bally, 1981
Flash Gordon
Bell Games, 1981You're currently viewing posts by Pinsider wamonkey.
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Hey I posted in VID1900’s forum on upgrading flippers and I want to upgrade my Flash Gordon project as I restore it to the newer non-linear flippers....
Anyone upgrade their flippers using VID1900’s guide?
Can you tell me what you purchased exactly? How it worked out any issues? I want to upgrade all three flippers...
Any help would be appreciated...
Quoted from Fytr:Not trying to be negative but installing Williams flippers on a classic Bally is not "restore to newer non-linear flippers". It's a hack to avoid future maintenance on a location game that would see many thousands of plays.
IMHO, there is absolutely no reason to not just install fresh linear flipper mechanics. The game will play fantastic and remain authentic to its original design.
Of course, it's your game so do what you want with it.
Trust me I respect your opinion but I have to buy all new stuff (it was a $300 project FG - the mechs were removed, even the plates) and VID1900 recommended it just because it is a tighter more modern feel. I did it before on a Gorgar and it made a huge difference for an older game. I have owned more Williams than Bally pins so linear flippers are just different and I have to buy everything anyway I was just going to try and upgrade it as much as I can with modern stuff. It will not be an original FG, I will have a hardtop on it, new stencils, new LED displays. I took this on as a COVID project to keep myself busy and engaged in something I enjoy doing.
If you read VID1900's forum on the upgrade all kinds of Pinsiders upgraded all kinds of machines, just think it is worth a try on Flash Gordon.
Quoted from QuietEarp:On the subject of flippers what about the previous generation of flippers before linear flippers from Bally? That would be closer to original feel than Modern Williams flippers.
With all of the close and sideways angle shots on FG I wouldn’t want to have the flippers too snappy. It would feel weird.
If I remember correctly the mechs for linear flippers are pricey if you have to buy everything, so I get why you wouldn’t want to spend all the extra money to get flippers that people generally don’t like. IMO they are fine for these games and feel right but I get it.
Yep - I have to buy it all when not get the ones widely viewed as better and more responsive.
Quoted from n1teowl:I bought a project from someone who had already bought the Williams mechs to upgrade it. I got them in the deal and am not going to use them. I'm willing to let them go for a discount if you decide to go that route. PM me if you want pics.
PM’ed ya - I guess the consensus is stick with original. But I will look at what you got.
Quoted from jesperpark:Okay so my FG is back to together and playing well except for a few small adjustments. A question I have is which of the rollover switches causes the drop target to come up for the Skill/reflex shot? I am finding the single drop usually comes up after the ball is already gone past the upper flipper. Is this a normal thing or is it missing a switch trigger somewhere?
Thanks for all the help along the way everyone
Oh and I should post a few pics, I bought it as a intact project with most of the pieces to complete
New Hardtop
All new Alltek Boards
Custom graphics [quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]
Love the custom graphics I wish I would have had the ability to do that. Would have been cheaper than the stencils and everything else I am doing. I am doing the hardtop, alternate pinball pimp stencils, new displays etc.
I see you even wrapped the apron with custom art. Post more pictures....
Its beautiful from what we can see.
Quoted from mjalexan:It’s an mpu + S&T so it seems ok to me. A new S&T from the UK is 200£ without roms.
Check the support section. there are instructions for adding files
For both that is completely fair - it would be great to see someone besides me take the dive on this first on how it all works.
here is my posts on the restore of Flash Gordon I am doing -
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/flash-gordon-lacked-flash-and-gordon#post-5854235
Anyone have the wiring diagrams to the squawk and talk board available?
IPDB is missing those pages...they have the vocalized which is different?
I want to re-pin all the connections and I want to make sure wiring is done right.
I would loved color codes to pins I have to figure it out somehow.
Any help...
Quoted from frunch:I see the wiring for the 15-pin connector going to the s&t is on the back box wiring diagram. Here's the portion of the diagram, and the color code chart.
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Thanks again Quench....
Quench - do you happen to have all S&T info, mine appeared to have a vocalizer and I am rewiring it back to S&T so I need the plugs to the board itself.
Is there more than the 15 pin plug -
I have no reference from mine....I have to re-create it all.
Quoted from Quench:Many people consider the Vocalizer to have clearer speech than the Squawk & Talk. If you have the Vocalizer setup, I'd probably leave it.
In any case, below is the Squawk & Talk connector info in my Flash Gordon manual.
Note: the Squawk and Talk connector has an extra G.I wire added at pin 7 - it's used to create a -5V power supply for the S&T speech chip. The other wires and placement are the same as the Vocalizer 15 pin connector.
The last picture is included because it has a small strobe connector table not included in the wiring schematic in the IPDB manual.
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I had no sound board in mine when I got it so I could only get the regular squawk and talk board to replace it. So, I have to figure it out....
So, if I read what you are saying - there is only the one plug sent to the S&T and it is the 15 pin connector, no other plugs connected?
I wonder if I have to re-create the -5V from somewhere? I assume I can just tap into a light socket to get the 5volt on pin #7 if I have to.
Thanks - if you have a picture of the plugs and the S&T board mounted that would be great to see just to make sure I am doing it right.
My machine was a $300 box of parts so this is what you get when you do a higher end restore from random parts. But, my restore looks amazing and I am almost done. I have another pinside post on my restore if you haven't seen it -
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/flash-gordon-lacked-flash-and-gordon
Quoted from vec-tor:Plus the speaker output connector...
located on the bottom far right.
Note: know which version S&T you have... Centaur is sightly deferent.
---- Some S&T 's have deferent components...
---- Best to use EBD S&T with FG snd roms.
Revision D - will I have issues? I had no sound board in my game when I got it so this is what I could get.
Quoted from Quench:Is your backbox harness missing the 15 pin connector for the original sound board? Post a picture of the wiring so we understand what you're dealing with.
Xenon also uses the Sounds Plus and Vocalizer setup. This picture from the Xenon club thread shows the 15 pin connector already has the thick single orange G.I bus lamp wire at pin 7. So it's likely your harness already has that G.I wire there:
https://images.pinside.com/b/e4/55/be455540c55ed18ef3e7c29f5c8fdaad7ac181e4.jpgSorry, my game's in storage but here's a picture from this clubs image gallery:
https://images.pinside.com/0/8c/9d/08c9d131ac26626b3d7680f912786ad8c509c1e3.jpegFantastic work!
You'll want to lower the flippers to align them as Bally designed otherwise the drop targets on each side will be harder to get good shots at. At rest, the Bally flipper bats tips should meet with the playfield alignment divots. Using the thinner Williams flipper bats you'll need to compensate a little.
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I think I got the wires right....someone split the plug it appears so I was able to figure it out. I spent the most time working on repinning the solenoid driver board...that is a lot of pins. I think it should work.
Thanks for the advice on the flippers I will adjust those.
I am just dreading doing the displays that is about what is left to do. Remember this pin was boxes of parts and separated cabinet pieces so I am sure something will require work. I had no boards, no flipper assemblies, basically everything removed. But, the boards are new, re-capped or repaired. Only the sound board (recapped) and the flasher board repaired new bulb etc. are original.
As I install stuff I see stuff to fix, I want few or no issues when it is done so I re-pin, zip tie , or adjust stuff prior. I am getting better on fixing stuff the more machines I restore. The help you guys give just make it faster easier, I don’t have to spend hours looking for stuff. I don’t know why IPDB is missing Squawk and Talk pages....
Quoted from vec-tor:For Flash Gordon, one of the chips you need is the U12 AY-3-8912 sound generator.
If you can, post a picture of the S&T sound board.
I will post a pic of my board...
You guys can check my work....
The wiring looks all the same...
Quoted from vec-tor:Your [ J1 ] connector!!!! OUCH!!!
Quoted from jj44114:Yes, there should really only be one Molex housing at J1, not three
Oh I know - reworking it tonight I think. I said it was hacked. I want to replace as many plugs as I can just because it will make the game more dependable.
Quoted from Robotworkshop:Did you get the caps separately or did someone sell you a kit? Just wonder who is selling kits with those style caps. Those should have been all Axial caps. I think Big Daddy sells kits with the correct axial versions. I personally dislike installing radial caps like that unless there is no other choice. I don't like the way they stand off the board with their leads mounted so far away. They are fine with the holes right under the cap but never meant to be mounted like that. While they will function it just isn't right. My Elektra was the same way when I got it and stripped all of those off and redid them. Here is a picture with the caps from Big Daddy on the last sound board I went through.
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I know it’s not the right caps but I had to acquire all the boards so I took what I could get. Squawk and Talk boards are not the cheapest or easiest to get. So, to get a recapped board at a decent price was a win for me. I am not a purist I seek dependable or upgraded components on all the restores I do. I didn’t have a strong desire to get a board then recap it, it was already done. It will work...
Just installed one on my restore - plays great - looks great. I could not play mine as a before because the machine was in pieces but I have played FG many times before and I prefer the hardtop, its smooth no cupped inserts. No wear spots....
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