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(Topic ID: 65903)

Flash Gordon: Saviors of the Universe Club


By TheShameGovernor

7 years ago



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  • Latest reply 1 day ago by Fytr
  • Topic is favorited by 119 Pinsiders

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There are 1517 posts in this topic. You are on page 29 of 31.
#1401 70 days ago

"Anyway I've already dumped this PROM. Here's the contents:
"0000: FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF
0010: FE FE FD FD FB FB F7 F7 EF EF DF DF BF BF 7F FF
The CRC32# of the file is: 7F18F0E4

It should be a simple matter of programming new Flash Gordon speech EPROMs and the sound EPROM on the Sounds Plus board. What problem are you having that you're looking at U9?"

My non-working Vocalizer had Xenon proms, and any that were readable were corrupted. No checksums matched any Xenon images. I was thinking that U9 could be corrupt as well.

Can somebody possibly make me a new U9 that I could buy?

I replaced CR1 through CR3, new C11 and C25, and installed a new 7805. I replaced a crummy looking U12 (74LS04). I rang out all the rom sockets, they are good. I tested the IDE socket (it's good) and bought a new ribbon cable. I don't have any 74LS30's, MC3417's, or MC1403's, so I ordered some.

I made new 7532 FG eproms for the vocalizer, and a u4 7532 for the sounds plus. I tested the roms in a working vocalizer & SP, and they worked great. I know the problem is in the vocalizer, as I repaired the SP and it works fine with my working Xenon vocalizer.

What should I be checking next? Thanks much for the help!

20200917_192031 (resized).jpg20200917_192148 (resized).jpg
#1402 69 days ago

Direct short to the 5 amp fuse at the power board F4

Have looked at all of the obvious spots but can't find
anything out of the ordinary

Whatever the root of the problem is, it happened
during normal game play. Machine lights up on the
playfield but the displays are blank.

Any suggestions?

Thanks!

#1403 69 days ago
Quoted from mkdud:

What should I be checking next? Thanks much for the help!

What are you getting out of the board? No sound, corrupt sound, something else?

Please open a tech help request in the early solid state tech sub-forum so we don't clog the club thread:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/forum/tech-early-80s-solid-state

#1404 68 days ago
Quoted from Robotworkshop:

If I'm not mistaken you can also tell by looking at J2 since the early board only seems to have a 6-pin connector there.
Was there a tech note from Bally to modify the early S&T boards in regards to that -5V? I have one of those early S&T boards that I'm working on now and can do any needed mods while here.

I made a mini piggyback board with the resistors and transistors and
reapplied it to the OEM Flash Gordon S&T. I copied EBD S&T schematics.
It Works; and I never had trouble with the Flash Gordon S&T sound board I have.

#1405 66 days ago

Has anyone had their "Shoot Again" not work? The light works in test mode but the lamp doesn't come on in gameplay ever and it we never kick my drained ball back. I've dug through tons of forums on here and most people have an issue with it staying on. Not me. Anyone have a fix?

#1406 66 days ago
Quoted from face4radio:

Has anyone had their "Shoot Again" not work? The light works in test mode but the lamp doesn't come on in gameplay ever and it we never kick my drained ball back. I've dug through tons of forums on here and most people have an issue with it staying on. Not me. Anyone have a fix?

Extra Balls turned off??

#1407 66 days ago
Quoted from face4radio:

Has anyone had their "Shoot Again" not work? The light works in test mode but the lamp doesn't come on in gameplay ever and it we never kick my drained ball back. I've dug through tons of forums on here and most people have an issue with it staying on. Not me. Anyone have a fix?

I just had this same issue recently. It turned out to be a connector issue for me. I redid the pins and connectors on the MPU and SDB, and it fixed my problem.

Edit: I could have gone through each connector or pin to see which had the issue, but I decided to do them all instead. Also did the power board, but that was unrelated.

#1408 66 days ago

Extra Balls off was the culprit on mine.

I have developed a nasty ghost scoring issue on odd right flipper fires...pretty sure it's the saucer that is rewarding the points, based on the accompanying sound...but the switches appear fine and not firing due to vibration on the PF.

#1409 66 days ago

Here’s one I restored a number of years ago. I went with the darker yellow rather than gold on the cabinet stencil. I also used REGAL RED for the base.

87EA8946-4654-4D11-BBE2-B41FD4717439 (resized).jpeg

#1410 64 days ago

I assume when you ask if extra balls are off you are referring to self test 16 and 17? I tried every combination on those setting and it doesn't kick on. Is there another location for it?

#1411 62 days ago

"I made a mini piggyback board with the resistors and transistors and
reapplied it to the OEM Flash Gordon S&T. I copied EBD S&T schematics.
It Works; and I never had trouble with the Flash Gordon S&T sound board I have."

Can you please show a picture of this daughterboard you made? Sounds like a good idea. Thanks, mk

#1412 59 days ago

Hi y'all. New FG owner here, pretty excited! I get pretty ocd with my games and want everything to work perfectly. The following give lights are always on, whether in attract mode or game. I suspect they are controlled lamps that should flicker in attract mode, and otherwise turn on and off, and I have some lamp drivers to replace. But wanted to check first. Can someone please confirm?

IMG_20200928_183938361~2 (resized).jpgIMG_20200928_184045848~2 (resized).jpg
#1413 59 days ago
Quoted from EvanDickson:

Hi y'all. New FG owner here, pretty excited! I get pretty ocd with my games and want everything to work perfectly. The following give lights are always on, whether in attract mode or game. I suspect they are controlled lamps that should flicker in attract mode, and otherwise turn on and off, and I have some lamp drivers to replace. But wanted to check first. Can someone please confirm?[quoted image][quoted image]

The blue collect bonus light definitely shouldn’t be stuck on. I think the others are on, though. I’ll check next time I turn it on.

#1414 59 days ago
Quoted from EvanDickson:

Hi y'all. New FG owner here, pretty excited! I get pretty ocd with my games and want everything to work perfectly. The following give lights are always on, whether in attract mode or game. I suspect they are controlled lamps that should flicker in attract mode, and otherwise turn on and off, and I have some lamp drivers to replace. But wanted to check first. Can someone please confirm?[quoted image][quoted image]

Yes, the bottom two pop bumpers are always on (part of the GI string), as are the top left rollover lanes.
Your blue collect bonus light probably has a bad transistor on the light board. Check the light board schematics to find out which one it is and replace.

#1415 59 days ago

Is that Blue Bonus light a bulb or LED?? Looks almost like a LED from the pic, and you may be seeing ghosting.....

#1416 59 days ago
Quoted from Fytr:

Yes, the bottom two pop bumpers are always on (part of the GI string), as are the top left rollover lanes.
Your blue collect bonus light probably has a bad transistor on the light board. Check the light board schematics to find out which one it is and replace.

Oh, and to confirm, the top pop bumper should flash on and off, and not be always on.

#1417 58 days ago

Followup question: Sometimes my displays are solid color. Sometimes they flicker/flash. I can't tell if this is a feature, or a gremlin. I suspect gremlin. Here's a vid of them being flashy (hope it doesn't mess people up that there's TAF music in the background).

Edit: I assume this is a gremlin not a feature, and I'll be doing all this stuff tomorrow:

***
Flickering Displays.
Flickering displays can often be attributed to cracked solder joints or a broken lead on a component. Here are some things to check:

Pin 36 on the display glass.
R21, R22, R29.
Q17.
U1 pin 13.
Often reflowing the solder joints on these components will fix the flickering problem. Also reflow ALL the header pin solder joints. These crack easily from plugging and unplugging the cable.
***

#1418 58 days ago
Quoted from AUKraut:

Is that Blue Bonus light a bulb or LED?? Looks almost like a LED from the pic, and you may be seeing ghosting.....

Yes, that is an LED, and there's no adapter kit for the lamp board. I'm thinking they might be anti-ghosting led - there are other LED in this one that seem to work great.

#1419 57 days ago
Quoted from face4radio:

I asked about ordering the NB2 board and this is the response I got on 9/12/20:
"sorry for the moment I am out of stock + big work for the company move.
Normally available between one and two months.
Yes I already ship to the US.
NBII + shipping costs (with insurance and signature) = 270€
Best regards, stef"
$320 USD seems steep. Am I wrong?
Also, I am looking at pulling the sound files from the movie to map out the entire game myself. Does anyone know the format they need to be in? The website doesn't say.

I just spoke with Nicolas yesterday. He has them in stock. I ordered 2 more since I'm picking up a FG this weekend! The other will go in a Fathom that I will one day own.

#1420 57 days ago
Quoted from SeaLawyer:

I just spoke with Nicolas yesterday. He has them in stock. He said he hasn't been out of stock recently. Are you trying to order them from somewhere else? I ordered 2 more since I'm picking up a FG this weekend! The other will go in a Fathom that I will one day own.

#1421 51 days ago

any chance someone has a spare transparent plastic that is next to the inline target? Mine just broke and I am not ready to buy a full set...

thanks!

pasted_image (resized).png

#1422 51 days ago
Quoted from hisokajp:

any chance someone has a spare transparent plastic that is next to the inline target? Mine just broke and I am not ready to buy a full set...
thanks!
[quoted image]

Could you cut your own out of a sheet of Lexan from Home Depot? It's largely hidden underneath a regular plastic, isn't it?

#1423 51 days ago
Quoted from Nokoro:

Could you cut your own out of a sheet of Lexan from Home Depot? It's largely hidden underneath a regular plastic, isn't it?

i would definitely do it, i have the material and band saw BUT mine shattered in pieces... so I would a least need a scan if someone had one on hand?

#1424 51 days ago

Next time I have things apart, I’ll try to help you out. Someone doing a shop job might beat me to it. Unless it is easily accessible in which case I may have time this weekend . . . .

#1425 51 days ago
Quoted from hisokajp:

i would definitely do it, i have the material and band saw BUT mine shattered in pieces... so I would a least need a scan if someone had one on hand?

I'll scan my original this afternoon and post it for you........

#1426 51 days ago
Quoted from AUKraut:

I'll scan my original this afternoon and post it for you........

#1428 50 days ago
Quoted from hisokajp:

i would definitely do it, i have the material and band saw BUT mine shattered in pieces... so I would a least need a scan if someone had one on hand?

Here you go, JPEG at 300dpi with a ruler for good measure:

FG Plastic.jpeg
#1429 50 days ago
Quoted from AUKraut:

Here you go, JPEG at 300dpi with a ruler for good measure:[quoted image]

perfect, thanks a lot!

1 week later
#1430 43 days ago

Can someone count the number of "wee woo" on startup of their working flash gordon? I'm sure mine only did it a few times when it was working, and now that it's not working I get 20 of them. Having trouble finding any info on the startup sequence sounds, and unsure if chasing that is a red herring or not.

#1431 43 days ago

They go by pretty quick, but 6 on mine...if I am counting them right.

#1432 43 days ago
Quoted from guitarded:

They go by pretty quick, but 6 on mine...if I am counting them right.

thank you, that means I'm not crazy. And I think it's reasonable to guess that the number of cycles is a helper to indicate what the issue with mine is, I just can't find any info in the manual / pinwiki / google about the startup sounds. But for now, at least I'm not crazy. Yet.

#1433 43 days ago
Quoted from EvanDickson:

thank you, that means I'm not crazy. And I think it's reasonable to guess that the number of cycles is a helper to indicate what the issue with mine is, I just can't find any info in the manual / pinwiki / google about the startup sounds. But for now, at least I'm not crazy. Yet.

Just some info: My game makes different length/sequence of the start-up sound based on what mpu I have in it (OE, Altek, Weebly). It never impacted the game play, so I never looked into it any more.

#1434 43 days ago
Quoted from djblouw:

Just some info: My game makes different length/sequence of the start-up sound based on what mpu I have in it (OE, Altek, Weebly). It never impacted the game play, so I never looked into it any more.

Interesting. The sound probably doesn't mean failed bootup because xxx then, it's probably something more like MPU not recognized (because failed bootup). I'm going to stop chasing the sound thing then and just do what I'm guessing my next step is, hoping it works.

1 week later
#1435 35 days ago

Anyone have the wiring diagrams to the squawk and talk board available?

IPDB is missing those pages...they have the vocalized which is different?

I want to re-pin all the connections and I want to make sure wiring is done right.

I would loved color codes to pins I have to figure it out somehow.

Any help...

#1436 35 days ago

I see the wiring for the 15-pin connector going to the s&t is on the back box wiring diagram. Here's the portion of the diagram, and the color code chart.

IMG_20201023_001552.jpgIMG_20201023_001557(1).jpg
#1437 35 days ago
Quoted from frunch:

I see the wiring for the 15-pin connector going to the s&t is on the back box wiring diagram. Here's the portion of the diagram, and the color code chart.
[quoted image][quoted image]

How do we get colors from that? I have a guess, but could use confirmation.

My guess is that I see J1, pin 1, leads to A4 (board) J4-4 (connector, pin) and A3 (board) J4-6 (connector pin). To the left of J1-1, is "23" which means wire color blue/yellow. Is that how it works?

#1438 35 days ago
Quoted from EvanDickson:

How do we get colors from that?

See the below example:

Centaur_MPU_Wiring.jpg

#1439 34 days ago
Quoted from frunch:

I see the wiring for the 15-pin connector going to the s&t is on the back box wiring diagram. Here's the portion of the diagram, and the color code chart.
[quoted image][quoted image]

Thanks again Quench....

#1440 34 days ago

Quench - do you happen to have all S&T info, mine appeared to have a vocalizer and I am rewiring it back to S&T so I need the plugs to the board itself.

Is there more than the 15 pin plug -

I have no reference from mine....I have to re-create it all.

#1441 34 days ago
Quoted from wamonkey:

Quench - do you happen to have all S&T info, mine appeared to have a vocalizer and I am rewiring it back to S&T so I need the plugs to the board itself.

Is there more than the 15 pin plug -

Many people consider the Vocalizer to have clearer speech than the Squawk & Talk. If you have the Vocalizer setup, I'd probably leave it.
In any case, below is the Squawk & Talk connector info in my Flash Gordon manual.
Note: the Squawk and Talk connector has an extra G.I wire added at pin 7 - it's used to create a -5V power supply for the S&T speech chip. The other wires and placement are the same as the Vocalizer 15 pin connector.

The last picture is included because it has a small strobe connector table not included in the wiring schematic in the IPDB manual.
IMG_0069a.jpg

IMG_0072a.jpg

IMG_0068a.jpg

#1442 34 days ago
Quoted from Quench:

Many people consider the Vocalizer to have clearer speech than the Squawk & Talk. If you have the Vocalizer setup, I'd probably leave it.
In any case, below is the Squawk & Talk connector info in my Flash Gordon manual.
Note: the Squawk and Talk connector has an extra G.I wire added at pin 7 - it's used to create a -5V power supply for the S&T speech chip. The other wires and placement are the same as the Vocalizer 15 pin connector.
The last picture is included because it has a small strobe connector table not included in the wiring schematic in the IPDB manual.
[quoted image]
[quoted image]
[quoted image]

I had no sound board in mine when I got it so I could only get the regular squawk and talk board to replace it. So, I have to figure it out....

So, if I read what you are saying - there is only the one plug sent to the S&T and it is the 15 pin connector, no other plugs connected?

I wonder if I have to re-create the -5V from somewhere? I assume I can just tap into a light socket to get the 5volt on pin #7 if I have to.

Thanks - if you have a picture of the plugs and the S&T board mounted that would be great to see just to make sure I am doing it right.

My machine was a $300 box of parts so this is what you get when you do a higher end restore from random parts. But, my restore looks amazing and I am almost done. I have another pinside post on my restore if you haven't seen it -

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/flash-gordon-lacked-flash-and-gordon

#1443 34 days ago

robotworkshop recently did mine. Very cool, knowledgeable and helpful guy. If you have a specific question, I'd reach out to him too.

#1444 34 days ago
Quoted from wamonkey:

So, if I read what you are saying - there is only the one plug sent to the S&T and it is the 15 pin connector, no other plugs connected?

Plus the speaker output connector...
located on the bottom far right.
Note: know which version S&T you have... Centaur is sightly deferent.
---- Some S&T 's have deferent components...
---- Best to use EBD S&T with FG snd roms.

#1445 34 days ago
Quoted from vec-tor:Plus the speaker output connector...
located on the bottom far right.
Note: know which version S&T you have... Centaur is sightly deferent.
---- Some S&T 's have deferent components...
---- Best to use EBD S&T with FG snd roms.

Revision D - will I have issues? I had no sound board in my game when I got it so this is what I could get.

#1446 34 days ago
Quoted from Fytr:

Yes, the bottom two pop bumpers are always on (part of the GI string), as are the top left rollover lanes.
Your blue collect bonus light probably has a bad transistor on the light board. Check the light board schematics to find out which one it is and replace.

Any S&T board version will work fine with the correct roms and jumpers

#1447 34 days ago
Quoted from wamonkey:

Revision D - will I have issues? I had no sound board in my game when I got it so this is what I could get.

For Flash Gordon, one of the chips you need is the U12 AY-3-8912 sound generator.
If you can, post a picture of the S&T sound board.

#1448 34 days ago
Quoted from wamonkey:

So, if I read what you are saying - there is only the one plug sent to the S&T and it is the 15 pin connector, no other plugs connected?

Is your backbox harness missing the 15 pin connector for the original sound board? Post a picture of the wiring so we understand what you're dealing with.

Xenon also uses the Sounds Plus and Vocalizer setup. This picture from the Xenon club thread shows the 15 pin connector already has the thick single orange G.I bus lamp wire at pin 7. So it's likely your harness already has that G.I wire there:

https://images.pinside.com/b/e4/55/be455540c55ed18ef3e7c29f5c8fdaad7ac181e4.jpg

Quoted from wamonkey:

Thanks - if you have a picture of the plugs and the S&T board mounted that would be great to see just to make sure I am doing it right.

Sorry, my game's in storage but here's a picture from this clubs image gallery:

https://images.pinside.com/0/8c/9d/08c9d131ac26626b3d7680f912786ad8c509c1e3.jpeg

Fantastic work!
You'll want to lower the flippers to align them as Bally designed otherwise the drop targets on each side will be harder to get good shots at. At rest, the Bally flipper bat tips should meet with the playfield alignment divots. Using the thinner Williams flipper bats you'll need to compensate a little.

FlashGordonFlippers1.jpg
IMG_0013a.jpg

#1449 34 days ago
Quoted from Quench:

Is your backbox harness missing the 15 pin connector for the original sound board? Post a picture of the wiring so we understand what you're dealing with.
Xenon also uses the Sounds Plus and Vocalizer setup. This picture from the Xenon club thread shows the 15 pin connector already has the thick single orange G.I bus lamp wire at pin 7. So it's likely your harness already has that G.I wire there:
https://images.pinside.com/b/e4/55/be455540c55ed18ef3e7c29f5c8fdaad7ac181e4.jpg

Sorry, my game's in storage but here's a picture from this clubs image gallery:
https://images.pinside.com/0/8c/9d/08c9d131ac26626b3d7680f912786ad8c509c1e3.jpeg

Fantastic work!
You'll want to lower the flippers to align them as Bally designed otherwise the drop targets on each side will be harder to get good shots at. At rest, the Bally flipper bats tips should meet with the playfield alignment divots. Using the thinner Williams flipper bats you'll need to compensate a little.
[quoted image]
[quoted image]

I think I got the wires right....someone split the plug it appears so I was able to figure it out. I spent the most time working on repinning the solenoid driver board...that is a lot of pins. I think it should work.

Thanks for the advice on the flippers I will adjust those.

I am just dreading doing the displays that is about what is left to do. Remember this pin was boxes of parts and separated cabinet pieces so I am sure something will require work. I had no boards, no flipper assemblies, basically everything removed. But, the boards are new, re-capped or repaired. Only the sound board (recapped) and the flasher board repaired new bulb etc. are original.

As I install stuff I see stuff to fix, I want few or no issues when it is done so I re-pin, zip tie , or adjust stuff prior. I am getting better on fixing stuff the more machines I restore. The help you guys give just make it faster easier, I don’t have to spend hours looking for stuff. I don’t know why IPDB is missing Squawk and Talk pages....

#1450 34 days ago
Quoted from vec-tor:

For Flash Gordon, one of the chips you need is the U12 AY-3-8912 sound generator.
If you can, post a picture of the S&T sound board.

I will post a pic of my board...

You guys can check my work....

The wiring looks all the same...

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