(Topic ID: 69898)

Flaky bulb sockets - solder question


By Piparoo

5 years ago



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  • 47 posts
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  • Latest reply 3 years ago by aahgo
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#1 5 years ago

I've just embarked into the wonderful world of EMs with a working but dirty Gottlieb Playball. Fun little game. Most of my 44/47 bulb sockets are dim or flaky. A little wiggling of the bulb will get them to light up for a bit and then they'll go dim/out after a few jiggles from gameplay. Before I replace all of my sockets, I've seen pictures of the soldering the end of the socket fix on pinrepair. Not sure I understand where exactly to put the solder. Can someone please explain and/or post a couple of photos? Or tell me to abandon this idea entirely

#2 5 years ago

some times the end of the bulb is worn and not quite long enough to make good contact. The spring in the socket is weak/compressed.Try brand new bulbs and that should help. also the socket housing may need cleaning where the nubs hold. Not sure what soldering you are referring to but most sockets have insulated connectors on the end and not really anything to solder without possibly creating a short.

#3 5 years ago

This is a picture of the fix suggested by clay's guide. So, I understand soldering the wire to base of the socket, but what is the extra blob of solder doing?gtblamp1.jpg

#4 5 years ago

It is simply moving the connection to the center contact instead of using the tab to eliminate a possible bad contact between the two parts. the added solder blob is just making a connection between the outer housing and bracket instead of relying on a crimped together connection. If I were going to do all this soldering I would resolder new sockets in. Try NEW bulbs first.

#5 5 years ago

I do this all the time. Usually only replace really bad sockets or if doing a PF swap, those get all new sockets. I use my dremel with a wire brush on tab and housing to get fresh metal to solder to.
Good luck.
Izzy

#6 5 years ago

Thanks for the advice guys. I think I'm just going to have to pull out a socket and practice on it. So, am I correct that in the picture there is a solder joint from the outer (tubular) part of the socket, to the lamp bracket? Why do this?

#7 5 years ago

You need to solder the lead directly to the "tit" on the end, & solder the base to the bracket. The base & bracket are just crimped together from the factory. Once the bakelite spacer dries & shrinks with age the connection becomes loose & you end up with intermittent connections - resulting in dim or flickering lights.
Use a fiberglass scratch brush to prep the surfaces for soldering & then coat with a thin film of flux & solder away.
amazon.com link »
The scratch brush makes the job much easier. Be sure to order the extra tips as you WILL need them.
It is a tedious process, but I do this on EVERY socket in the game. Makes world of difference!

#8 5 years ago

You will need to clean the nipple up first or solder won't adhere. I have a small file I use to get a nice spot on the nipple before I solder.

Once in a while you may find that the lamp support and the base are no longer electrically connected as it spins loosely. Then you have to do the same thing of soldering the support bracket to the base of the socket. You have to clean those up too to get solder to stick.

I clean the inside of the socket with some emory cloth as well. Then, sometimes the socket is too loose and I use a pair of needle nosed pliers to ever so *slightly* bend the sides of the socket together so the lamp fits nice and tight. Must be the newer Taiwan #44 lamps are this -><- much smaller in diameter than the older style GE lamps that were originally used.

#9 5 years ago

Even after reading Clay's instructions I didn't prep the surface for the solder lol. I guess I thought he meant you only needed to clean the nipple and I was attempting to solder the base to the bracket. Maybe I thought that because mine shows signs of corrosion and the bulb socket looks clean. Either way I'll be at this again tonight because without prepping the surface that solder would not take O,o Think I may get a chisel tip for my soldering iron too.

Thanks for the thread and helping me understand where I went wrong :0)

11
#10 5 years ago

This job can be a pain or a pretty easy job. The difference is all in the quality of the tools you use and your preparation. Done well, this modification does not look like a hack and works brilliantly.

Tool List: Safety glasses, lights, Dremel, wire wheel, paste flux, flux brush, wire cutters, soldering gun and one hand wire stripper.

Pull the playfield out and place on bench or rotisserie, or at least lean it back against the head. Set up some good bright lights.

You can do a handful of sockets all in the same area, to minimize picking up/ putting down the tools.

PUT ON SAFETY GLASSES!

Dremel w/ wire wheel: clean a spot low down on the barrel and the adjacent area on the bracket. Takes 5 seconds or less. You don't have to be too careful here.
Dremel w/ wire wheel to clean the 'tit' on the bottom of the barrel. About 2 seconds. Do both areas on about 5 sockets.
Put down the Dremel.

Brush a near invisible layer of paste flux on the cleaned spots on the barrels and bracket, and on the center connection 'tits'. Basically, get a fluxing brush loaded w/ flux (the brush will still look pretty much dry) and you only need to reload the flux brush every 10-20 sockets or so. A little excess flux is not an issue, just looks sloppy. Fluxing a socket barrel and tit takes 5 seconds a socket or less.

Snip off wires at lug on each socket, then strip the wires. This is the slowest part of the job. Get a good, one hand 'squeeze the handles type' stripper. You will never regret this, and never strip a wire any other way again. You will think you are a genius and you will annoy all your friends and family talking about your wire stripper. Maybe the best pinball tool ever. (Non-corrosive paste flux is a close second. Get it, use it, enjoy life without solder problems. Think you can't solder? You haven't used paste flux.) If the stripped wires are copper colored, not silver colored, then you must pre-tin the bare wire. Flux the stripped wire, heat it with gun and flow on a bit of solder.

Fire up your soldering gun. Not an iron like for board work, the big Weller gun. No gun? Stop, go to the store, purchase gun.
Grab the 60/40 rosin core 1/16" dia solder.

Pull trigger and wait to get tip hot on gun, then touch the gun tip to the bracket and barrel AT THE SAME TIME in the area you cleaned and fluxed. Allow them to get hot. Flux melts. Maybe 5 seconds, probably less.
Touch solder to barrel/bracket fluxed area, NOT the gun tip. Solder should melt instantly, if it does not, you are not heating the parts long enough. Bridge the barrel to the bracket with solder. The flux will do the work; when you do it right it's like the solder has a brain and knows where to go. Will look way better than the picture above. Do all the prepped sockets.

Melt some solder on the tip of the gun, put the solder down, grab a wire and 'tack solder' the wire to the tit. This move takes some practice. Do all the prepped sockets. When you get good, you can grab the wire with a couple of fingers and solder it without putting down the solder. Or put the roll of solder down with the end of the solder sticking up, so you can touch the gun tip to it.

THE TRICK: Do not release the trigger of the gun after you start- just move from socket to socket, bam, bam, bam. Once you get the rhythm, you will move like lightning. Remember to stand up and stretch your back once in a while.

Hate soldering? Freshly brushed metal, flux and the proper heat act together like a miracle. If you are having problems: more flux, more heat. You will figure it out. If you are not going to wire brush, flux and use a gun, DON'T EVEN START.

Cleaning the inside of the socket is your option. I do it with the Dremel, it's super fast with a tiny cup-shaped wire wheel.

Only buy the best possible tools. Compromise on wives, friends, food, booze, religion, politics and condoms BUT NEVER ON TOOLS. Can't make up your mind? Follow this simple rule - Buy the better tool. This is how you make working on pins very fun, and never a chore.

Don C.

#11 5 years ago

Great write up. Answered so many questions. I was unaware I needed to use flux if I had the 60/40 rosin core, but then I'm new to soldering and didn't do to well lol.

#12 5 years ago

I prefer to de-solder & remove every socket and rebuild them one at a time. That way you can properly judge spring tension and get a better handle on overall condition. But each game is different.
I am currently working on two pins --a well worn dumpster quality 1973 Gottlieb High Hand -- every socket is loose & sloppy --and- a REALLY NICE original 1976 Gottlieb Card Whiz - all sockets are nice & tight - I won't need to do anything to the sockets except clean the inside.

#13 5 years ago

I also have several loose bulb sockets on my Surf Champ that occasionally give me trouble. I've ordered a few new sockets and plan on just replacing some of the bad ones. However the bonus tree has several sockets that are riveted to a strip and have been flickering. Replacing those doesn't seem like an option. So I decided to take the advice here and solder them. I replaced my cheap 40 watt Radio Shack soldering iron with a Weller gun. I picked up some flux and took a shot at doing this.

Each area was cleaned with emery paper ( a dremel would have been cleaner and faster) and then blown off. I removed the tree to solder the bases on my work bench. Then I installed the tree to complete the soldering of the wires to the tits. I ran the wires through the tabs to hold the wires in place as I soldered them. That helped quite a bit. Now they all light nicely. No flickering or dull lights.

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#14 5 years ago

Looks great! I usually snip off the tab where the wire originally attached to.

#15 5 years ago

Yeah I used the 140 setting and it worked just fine. The flux also worked great. What I meant was installing new sockets. I am not quite sure how that would have been done. So soldering seemed the way to go.

#16 5 years ago

Nice work, Cruzin1a. On an assembly like that, you can't get enough heat. When I do things like this, I put enough heat on the parts so that when I touch the solder to the joint, it flows instantly, in a flash.

Don C.

#17 5 years ago
Quoted from Don_C:

Nice work, Cruzin1a. On an assembly like that, you can't get enough heat. When I do things like this, I put enough heat on the parts so that when I touch the solder to the joint, it flows instantly, in a flash.
Don C.

Your write up was spot on and saved me a ton of aggravation and time.

#18 5 years ago

I have a Weller gun and a 30W iron I bought just for this task.

Me? I like to fire up the 30W (yes a big one) iron and go to town. I clean up the tits and barrels with a dremel, then often use liquid flux and finally, I tin the tits and make the solder bridge on the barrel using the big iron. I usually pull off the wire by simply de-soldering using a gun or the iron. Once the tinning is complete, it may actually be easier to use the gun for the final connection to the tit.

1 year later
#19 3 years ago

This is a great post. I still have questions. I think some of these questions would be best resolved with step-by-step pics.

I have a few troublesome 44 sockets in a Williams game. I could sure use some refinement on what's been posted so far.

1. Where inside a socket does a bulb specifically make contact? (I'm wondering where to focus the cleaning)

2. Where do we apply the solder?

3. Where do we NOT want to apply the solder?

4. How do you choose when to apply solder to the tit and when to just leave it alone?

5. What is the value of a soldering gun over other soldering tools?

6. How do you choose your tool to clean up the inside of a socket?: dremel+wheel, emory cloth, socket cleaning tool?

thank you!
-mof

#20 3 years ago

Call all lamp socket experts to chime in.
-mof

#21 3 years ago

Answers/opinions mixed in w/questions:

Quoted from mof:

This is a great post. I still have questions. I think some of these questions would be best resolved with step-by-step pics.
I have a few troublesome 44 sockets in a Williams game. I could sure use some refinement on what's been posted so far.
1. Where inside a socket does a bulb specifically make contact? (I'm wondering where to focus the cleaning)

Looking down into the socket, that spring or metal 'cup' dead center. Also the little pegs on the side of the lamp contact the top of the cutouts in the socket side.

2. Where do we apply the solder?

At the bottom of the socket, on the round piece that gets pushed down by the lamp. A wire also goes here. Also bridging the gap from the outer socket body to the bracket the mounting screw goes through.

3. Where do we NOT want to apply the solder?

On moving parts, except noted above.

4. How do you choose when to apply solder to the tit and when to just leave it alone?

Inside the socket? Never needed to.

5. What is the value of a soldering gun over other soldering tools?

Much hotter than a 25 watt pencil iron so faster on the draw.

6. How do you choose your tool to clean up the inside of a socket?: dremel+wheel, emory cloth, socket cleaning tool?

I use the lamp itself to clean the socket. Press it down and spin back and forth to 'clean' the cup or spring, and lock the lamp in then pull up on it while twisting it out.

I didn't read the whole thread, but if no one mentioned it, the bottom of a 44 lamp is solder. You can carefully reflow and add maybe 1/4" of solder to the lamp and make the contact point bigger so the light fits in the socket super-tightly. Sometimes doing this makes the need to clean the socket moot. It just works. Don't use too much solder, though, or you can't get the lamp in far enough to twist and lock. Easy enough to filed down, but that pretty round blob of solder has the most and even surface area.

That's what I do, anyway....

thank you!
-mof

#22 3 years ago

>>Looking down into the socket, that spring or metal 'cup' dead center. Also the little pegs on the side of the lamp contact the top of the cutouts in the socket side.

Thanks, so what is the value of "cleaning out the inside" of a socket, if what really matters is:

1. bulb side pins
2. spiral contact

-mof

#23 3 years ago

Like a lot of us on here, I have a vibration tumbler. Generally if a part can be buffed I prefer to do that than tumble the parts...However, I love to recycle 44/47 sockets off old playfields....These clean up very well in the vibration tumbler.. Once cleaned I solder all the bases and store them for future playfields swaps where I discard 555 sockets and replace with 44/47's.

#24 3 years ago

Unless its on a strip, replace with new if you are going to this much trouble.

#25 3 years ago
Quoted from mof:

>>Looking down into the socket, that spring or metal 'cup' dead center. Also the little pegs on the side of the lamp contact the top of the cutouts in the socket side.
Thanks, so what is the value of "cleaning out the inside" of a socket, if what really matters is:
1. bulb side pins
2. spiral contact
-mof

Um,...cosmetics?

#26 3 years ago

Hi piparoo, mof +
I did not study all posts. In post-2 sixpacmopar mentioned "clean the socket housing - where the nubs hold".
What I do: I take the bulb out. With a lead pencil "stump side / blunt-ended side" i push into the socket - I imitate "mounting a bulb". By this the pencil pushes a thin rod out (on the outside of the socket housing). With a brush of copper or of steel: I clean (brush) the thin rod and the "Mushroom-like end of the rod" - an a bit of the socket housing. Greetings Rolf

#27 3 years ago
Quoted from mof:

>>Looking down into the socket, that spring or metal 'cup' dead center. Also the little pegs on the side of the lamp contact the top of the cutouts in the socket side.
Thanks, so what is the value of "cleaning out the inside" of a socket, if what really matters is:
1. bulb side pins
2. spiral contact
-mof

You're on a forum where people chrome plate transformer brackets.

#28 3 years ago
Quoted from mof:

This is a great post. I still have questions. I think some of these questions would be best resolved with step-by-step pics.
I have a few troublesome 44 sockets in a Williams game. I could sure use some refinement on what's been posted so far.
1. Where inside a socket does a bulb specifically make contact? (I'm wondering where to focus the cleaning)
2. Where do we apply the solder?
3. Where do we NOT want to apply the solder?
4. How do you choose when to apply solder to the tit and when to just leave it alone?
5. What is the value of a soldering gun over other soldering tools?
6. How do you choose your tool to clean up the inside of a socket?: dremel+wheel, emory cloth, socket cleaning tool?
thank you!
-mof

1) The bulb contacts the center cup or spring or prong in the bottom of the socket, and the lamp pegs contact the top of the cutouts in the socket.

08 no 44 lamp 2.jpg

2) Depends on your preference. Here I sanded the side of the socket and applied a tiny bit of flux

01 Sanded socket wall.JPG

then tinned the side

02 Tinned socket wall.JPG

then folded up the lug a filled the gap with solder

03_soldered_tab.jpg

That took care of one lug. For the center, again I sanded the area and applied a tiny bit of flux

04 Sanding center contact.JPG

then bridged the gap with solder

05 Center contact soldered.JPG

The last two sockets had to have wires soldered to the lug, so I didn't bend them, I just sanded the juncture and bridged the gap

10 bottom tab bridged without bending.JPG

The centers were just like the others. Inside the socket, the center of the lamp contacts here

06 Center contact spring.JPG

to be continued briefly...

#29 3 years ago

Oh, well that last pic was where the pegs contact the top of the cutout in the socket.

I hope this isn't too late to be helpful.

2 weeks later
#30 3 years ago
Quoted from pinhead52:

Unless its on a strip, replace with new if you are going to this much trouble.

This was my thinking that prompted me to re-create an entire assembly full of flaky bulbs. This is from a 1976 Gottlieb Buccaneer that had a steel disk full of lamps that had significant corrosion. I considered doing the solder method but then at the last minute decided to re-create the assembly on a wooden disk with all new lamp holders. I'm happy with how it came out and obviously everything works great now.
image.jpeg
Old steel desk on the left, new wooden one on the right during wiring.

image.jpeg

Finished new disc with 21 new lamp sockets. I had to cut the entire assembly out of the wiring harness in order to retain all of the original wire colors but added two Molex connectors so the entire assembly now plugs in and out if necessary.

#31 3 years ago
Quoted from NeonNoodle:

This was my thinking that prompted me to re-create an entire assembly full of flaky bulbs. This is from a 1976 Gottlieb Buccaneer that had a steel disk full of lamps that had significant corrosion. I considered doing the solder method but then at the last minute decided to re-create the assembly on a wooden disk with all new lamp holders. I'm happy with how it came out and obviously everything works great now.

Old steel desk on the left, new wooden one on the right during wiring.

Finished new disc with 21 new lamp sockets. I had to cut the entire assembly out of the wiring harness in order to retain all of the original wire colors but added two Molex connectors so the entire assembly now plugs in and out if necessary.

Nice work!

#32 3 years ago

I used to mess with trying to get the old sockets to work, but it's just not worth it to me anymore. I pull and replace the socket most times now.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.Team-EM.com
http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball/index.htm
http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

#33 3 years ago
Quoted from ChrisHibler:

I used to mess with trying to get the old sockets to work, but it's just not worth it to me anymore. I pull and replace the socket most times now.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.Team-EM.com
http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball/index.htm
http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

Do you just get them from pbr? I would do that too if I could find a place that sold them fairly cheap. $1 and change per socket really ads up after doing a few games.

#34 3 years ago

Gotta go PBR for sockets! Best price I've found so far.

Generally games older than 1970 I replace all the sockets. Between '70-'75 might get by with the tit/barrel solder trick if they look clean. After '75 most check out OK (but still need "the trick" just to be sure).

Bally EM's with those horrid flat staple-down sockets in the backbox always get redone with new ones. Which is verrry time consuming...

#35 3 years ago
Quoted from jdoz2:

Do you just get them from pbr? I would do that too if I could find a place that sold them fairly cheap. $1 and change per socket really ads up after doing a few games.

Generally, yes. I source them where I can.
I know it sounds expensive, but let's say you can fix 7 of the craptastic lamp sockets per hour. You have to burnish the nipple and the canister, flux them, then solder to them. This doesn't go well half of the time. Then you should clean out the inside of the socket with a lamp cleaner stick (also from PBR). After all that, it might work.

Or...you can remove the old socket by heating the solder blob at the braid (which is actually power, not ground) and unscrewing the socket. Clip the wire as desoldering it will mostly leave a crappy end on it. Strip the wire. Screw the new socket in. Solder the braid and the ground wire down. Badda-Bing Badda-Boom. It works, and will (essentially) forever. You won't have to revisit it tomorrow or next week.

Use the time you save to enjoy your games more.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.Team-EM.com
http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball/index.htm
http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

#36 3 years ago

I have the 200/260 watt soldering iron for just this purpose. It heats things up fasts and gets them hot enough to make the solder bond to the socket properly. I first use a cordless Dremel with a non-metal brush to clean the socket in the location to be soldered and then apply flux with a brush.

amazon.com link »

#37 3 years ago

Yep, you want a lot of heat for that job.

you-will-be-my-girlfriend-yes.jpg

1 week later
#38 3 years ago

I agree that PBR is the best place to buy sockets....However, for the standard playfield feature light socket, check these out...

http://www.allelectronics.com/make-a-store/item/ls-9/mini-bayonet-base-lamp-socket/1.html

$0.35 each

#39 3 years ago
Quoted from Freeplay40:

I agree that PBR is the best place to buy sockets....However, for the standard playfield feature light socket, check these out...
http://www.allelectronics.com/make-a-store/item/ls-9/mini-bayonet-base-lamp-socket/1.html
$0.35 each

I like this store, lot's of neat items!
Thanks for the link
--
Jeremy

#40 3 years ago
Quoted from Don_C:

Follow this simple rule - Buy the better tool. This is how you make working on pins very fun, and never a chore.
Don C.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ What he said!

#41 3 years ago

Did you happen to pick this machine up in Illinois?

Never mind. Just noticed you posted this a year ago. I'm a bit of a dolt sometimes.

#42 3 years ago
Quoted from Don_C:

Only buy the best possible tools. Compromise on wives, friends, food, booze, religion, politics and condoms BUT NEVER ON TOOLS. Can't make up your mind? Follow this simple rule - Buy the better tool. This is how you make working on pins very fun, and never a chore.

While I don't know how to write Tim the tool man Taylor making ape sounds...this rule fits my philosophy 100%. And, even after I think I have the best tool, when a better one comes along, I buy it too. I'm pretty much known as the go to guy in my subdivision for borrowing tools.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.Team-EM.com
http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball/index.htm
http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

#43 3 years ago

Oh, flux?

I was soldering a light bulb 2 days ago and the solder would not stick to the bulb socket. Actually it ran down the soldering iron and onto my bare foot, leaving a nice burn

I thought there must be another stage so I guess you have to apply flux to the shiny surface first....

#44 3 years ago

There is flux in the solder that helps clean the surface. If you have a ball of solder rolling around that is not sticking, the flux has been "used up". Once this happens it is near impossible to get that glob to form a good solder joint. At this point I clean the iron and try to get rid of all the solder currently in play to start over fresh. Apply a new layer of flux with a brush and try again.

Remember the number one rule of soldering is having everything clean and corrosion free. In the case of soldering sockets, this is even more important because we are soldering something that was not really made to be soldered. I was fortunate enough to take soldering certification training about ten years ago. Cleanliness of the surfaces to be soldered and the solder itself is important. We used alcohol and brushes, then dried the surfaces and applied flux with a brush. We even cleaned the solder itself with an alcohol soaked rag prior to use. If everything is clean and at the correct temperature the solder clings with surface tension like magic. Once it is done, cleaning the flux residue with alcohol is recommended or it will accumulate dust and grime because it is sticky as hell.

#45 3 years ago

Thanks - interesting.

Is Flux paste or liquid the best?

Guessing liquid as can brush on?

#46 3 years ago

You didn't get the socket hot enough.

To make it easier, lightly sand the area to be soldered. It will accept the solder and tin exponentially better. See the pics I posted earlier in the thread.

[Edit] I like paste flux because it is easier controlled in application and stays put and doesn't drip.

#47 3 years ago
Quoted from Don_C:

Compromise on wives, friends, food, booze, religion, politics...

Wait a minute...compromise on booze? No way! Good booze is the only thing that let's me tolerate the rest of those things! Have enough and you don't even notice those dim bulbs either.

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