(Topic ID: 14460)

Fixing a Weak Flipper.

By NPO

12 years ago


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Topic Stats

  • 28 posts
  • 16 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 12 years ago by Stack15
  • Topic is favorited by 7 Pinsiders

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#1 12 years ago

Hey guys,

So one of the things I want to tackle on my Jurassic Park is what I believe to be a weak flipper. The right flipper is ultra-powerful while the left one - I can get it to the boat dock or the right ramp, but man, it has to be a solid shot. I think the left flipper needs a rebuild.

So, I read up on Pinball Machine: Care and Maintenance by B.B. Kamoroff, and I got a general idea of what to do. Now, I checked the coils via the JP Manual, and they are BOTH to have coil # 090-5020-30. As of now, my JP has for the right flipper a 090-5032-OT and the left flipper is a 090-5020-30. Since the manual states they should both be the same, and my machine has different coils for each flipper, I am thinking to go ahead and replace the left flipper coil. I want to match it with the right flipper so I'd replace my left flipper coil with a 090-5032-OT, which I can get over at PinballLife.

If I'm replacing the coil, should I just go ahead and get a coil sleeve too? Is there a "full rebuild kit" I should be looking at instead of just replacing the coil and coil sleeve? What is everyone's thoughts on this?

Other than bulb replacement and switch adjustments, this is my first real tech repair, and I want to make sure I do it right. Options, ideas, and thoughts, everyone? Am I on the right track?

Below are photos of both coil, then the right coil and the left coil.

100_4411.JPG100_4411.JPG 100_4412.JPG100_4412.JPG 100_4413.JPG100_4413.JPG

#2 12 years ago

I can't really tell what kind of shappe the game is in; but th eflipper links look good.

I'd replace the coil and sleeve, and see how that is.

Robert

#3 12 years ago
Quoted from NPO:

Hey guys,
So one of the things I want to tackle on my Jurassic Park is what I believe to be a weak flipper. The right flipper is ultra-powerful while the left one - I can get it to the boat dock or the right ramp, but man, it has to be a solid shot. I think the left flipper needs a rebuild.
So, I read up on Pinball Machine: Care and Maintenance by B.B. Kamoroff, and I got a general idea of what to do. Now, I checked the coils via the JP Manual, and they are BOTH to have coil # 090-5020-30. As of now, my JP has for the right flipper a 090-5032-OT and the left flipper is a 090-5020-30. Since the manual states they should both be the same, and my machine has different coils for each flipper, I am thinking to go ahead and replace the left flipper coil. I want to match it with the right flipper so I'd replace my left flipper coil with a 090-5032-OT, which I can get over at PinballLife.
If I'm replacing the coil, should I just go ahead and get a coil sleeve too? Is there a "full rebuild kit" I should be looking at instead of just replacing the coil and coil sleeve? What is everyone's thoughts on this?
Other than bulb replacement and switch adjustments, this is my first real tech repair, and I want to make sure I do it right. Options, ideas, and thoughts, everyone? Am I on the right track?
Below are photos of both coil, then the right coil and the left coil.

Attachments 100_4413.JPG (259.7 KB, 0 downloads) 19 minutes old 100_4412.JPG (258.3 KB, 0 downloads) 19 minutes old 100_4411.JPG (316 KB, 0 downloads) 19 minutes old

Since your diving in, you might as well just do the rebuild and get some bushings to as I bet they need replaced as well.

#4 12 years ago

the left flipper coil (5020-30) is the stock coil, according to the manual. The right one is a replacement.

Not sure what the difference is between the 2, but PB Life also sells the stock coil. But don't get hung up on the coil - it's not what's causing your sluggish flipper problem. Those 2 coils are near identical in strength so if everything else is good shape I doubt you could tell a performance difference between the 2 different coils.

There's a ton of possible reasons for a "weak" flipper. A bad coil typically isn't one of them. Most likely you are looking at normal wear and tear and accumulated gunk and grime.

I usually wouldn't recommend, but you may consider just spending the $20 and buying a "flipper rebuild kit" (which ironically would include everything *except* the coil, since coils usually don't fail). You can get some experience and it's not a tough job.

Just remember to only disassemble one flipper assembly at a time. If you get confused as to how something goes back together, you can reference your other assembly.

#5 12 years ago

Hey everyone, keep the advice rolling on in!

So, a coil really shouldn't be replaced - even after nearly 20 years? I'm used to working on cars, and when I see something that old, I nearly immediately replace it. I guess coils are robust enough to last 20 years without replacement? I'm not trying to question or backtalk anyone - I am honestly new and making sure I understand that they really do last that long (while getting over my "normal mindset" of replacing things like I do on cars).

Looking at the flipper assembly, I'm going to desolder the wires connected to the coil, then I plan on removing the hexnut bolts that hold the assembly to the underside of the playfield. From there, how exactly does the flipper detach from the rest of the assembly...? Obviously, it has to come off to remove the rest of the assembly from the underside of the machine, but how exactly does it come off...? Is there a "how-to" or a "step-by-step" tutorial for things like this that I can reference?

And I assume the flipper rebuild kit is over at PinballLife? Is it pretty much a universal kit that is used on the vast majority of pins? I don't want to accidentally buy the wrong one.

I look forward to doing this rebuild. As stated, it builds some experience, and I mean, it can't be THAT hard.... right ?

#6 12 years ago

Take the coil stop off and you can just slide the coil off, you don't need to unsolder it.

It's really not that hard, just do one at a time. You don't need a step by step guide.

Get a rebuild kit from pinballlife.

#7 12 years ago
Quoted from NPO:

a coil really shouldn't be replaced - even after nearly 20 years?

coils don't degrade or become weak over time. They basically work..........or they don't. And about the only reason they ever stop working is if there is a break in the coil winding.

Quoted from NPO:

flipper rebuild kit is over at PinballLife? Is it pretty much a universal kit that is used on the vast majority of pins? I

You'll need to specify the manufacturer/game as the kits are not interchangeable between manufacturers or generations of games. So get a kit that says it's for a DE JP.

Quoted from NPO:

From there, how exactly does the flipper detach from the rest of the assembly...?

There should be "set screws" that are tightened up against the flipper shaft. Probably allen wrench type of screws. Loosen them up, your flipper will start flopping around - grab it from the top of the playfield and lift it off. Do this first and remove the flipper bat/shaft before you loosen stuff underneath the playfield. First thing to take off - last thing to put back on.

#8 12 years ago

Is that a plastic cover on the ball trough protecting the 6 microswitches? I don't have that on mine...

#9 12 years ago

I had weak flipper on my Addams Family game. Replaced the 20 year old coil = still weak. Replaced the 20 cent coil sleeve = strong flipper. I believe that to be enough said.

Okay... more to say. All three flippers on my Spiderman game were also weak when I bought it. For that game I used three flipper rebuild kits and had three VERY strong flippers... too strong really. No coil replacement.

Local people told me that coils are very, very rarely the problem of anything. I hope that helps.

It took me maybe an hour on the first flipper I did... now I can do them in maybe 10 minutes each.

#10 12 years ago
Quoted from NPO:

Looking at the flipper assembly, I'm going to desolder the wires connected to the coil,

Be very, very, very careful to solder the coils back exactly how they were already. Putting one of those wires in the wrong place can cause some pains.

#11 12 years ago
Quoted from Stack15:

NewPinOwner said:Looking at the flipper assembly, I'm going to desolder the wires connected to the coil,
Be very, very, very careful to solder the coils back exactly how they were already. Putting one of those wires in the wrong place can cause some pains.

I usually take a piece of masking tape and write on it "BANDED" and wrap it around the wire that came off the BANDED side of the diode. That way, you can't mess it up when you put it back on!

#12 12 years ago
Quoted from btrip:

Is that a plastic cover on the ball trough protecting the 6 microswitches? I don't have that on mine...

Yes it is, sir. I didn't have it on that first junker JP either. Prolly something someone put on before I got the machine. If you accidentally bump those microswitches around, the game can think a ball is missing when it really isn't.

Thank you everyone for all your help! I really appreciate everyone being patient with my questions as I am a VERY visual learner, so when doing forum help like this I kind of have to be spoon fed .

I'll do what is recommended and NOT de solder the wiring. I'll tie a zip tie on it and hang the zip tie somewhere on the playfield so there's no stress on the solder joints. Then I'll rebuild by use of new coil sleeves as suggested, and before re-assembly I'll take some isopropyl alcohol on some Q-tips and lightly clean all switch contacts.

Sounds like this shouldn't be too bad. Am I missing anything, guys? If not, I'll be ordering a rebuild kit tonight over at PinBallLife. Should I get an extra coil sleeve just in case? Heard they can be a bit fragile, and it would suck to break the new one and not have an extra >_< ...

Man, such a simple repair and yet I have so many questions .___.

#13 12 years ago

Yes order lots of spare parts of course...balls, rubbers, bulbs, novus, etcetcetc...always good to have spares...you WILL use them...

#14 12 years ago
Quoted from tomdotcom:

Yes order lots of spare parts of course...balls, rubbers, bulbs, novus, etcetcetc...always good to have spares...you WILL use them...

Good call - I do need some Novus. I got so many bulbs here I could light a city block with pinball lights alone .

I'll do some thorough browsing tonight on PBL and get some goodies just to be safe - plus save on shipping .

#15 12 years ago

Just a couple things to add to the already good advice. When you re-install the flipper assembly make sure to leave just a little bit of movement between the bottom of the flipper bat and the playfield bushing. Too tight and it may bind, to lose and it robs the flipper of power.

Also, if you order a new coil (I agree, they're seldom bad) they generally come with a new coil sleeve. And yes, order more. They're cheap and nice to have on hand. Check that the coil stop and plunger aren't deformed while your at it.

Good luck!

#16 12 years ago

The 5032 is a weaker cool than the 5020-30. You can tell by measuring the impedance of the coils. The lower, the stronger the coil. So since the left side has a stronger coil and is weaker, you need a flipper rebuild rather than a new coil (most likely).

#17 12 years ago

In case it ever helps anyone... I have a Funhouse and the weak left flipper was KILLING me. Tightened up the EOS switch (normally closed) so it doesn't open so early/easily, and it made ALL the difference in the world. Just sayin.

#18 12 years ago

While you're doing a rebuild, the plastic parts are some of the most important. As stated before, the sleeves inside the coil are essential. A clean smooth sleeve does not add friction and rob power. Also, make sure to buy new flipper bat bushings. These inexpensive white collars that your flipper post slides into can often crack without being noticed and they will not only cause your flipper bat to wobble, but will also put your playfield at risk of damage. They are not included with most rebuild kits.
And don't forget to inspect the inside of your flipper bats to ensure there are no cracks. Give them a gentle twist in your hand.

#19 12 years ago

Howdy everyone!

So, I bought the flipper rebuild kit $45.....oof.... figured I'll just do both. As I practice in the auto hobby, so will I here: whenever applicable, do EVERYTHING in pairs.

I bought a lil' of everything: fuses, balls, extra led bulbs, adjustment tools, the "big bag of everything" and things I don't even remember. I kept walking back and forth from the computer to both pins, looking for ANYTHING missing and anything that just should be replaced right now. Sure started catching up.... I bought a bunch of junk, and the damage once shipping was factored in: $130

Not a cheap hobby . That's all right, having the right tools and extras of everything is worth it in the long run. Told you I was going to thoroughly go through PBL tonight, tomdotcom .

So I got that package coming in from PBL and 84 LEDs hand-picked for Johnny Mnemonic. Now, BAA sure could use a browsing too I'm sure .....$48 in JM and JP game-specific parts...

#20 12 years ago
Quoted from Drano:

Also, make sure to buy new flipper bat bushings. These inexpensive white collars that your flipper post slides into can often crack without being noticed and they will not only cause your flipper bat to wobble, but will also put your playfield at risk of damage. They are not included with most rebuild kits.

Where is this piece located? What is the flipper bat? Is this piece in the hole that runs through the playfield connecting up to the flipper?

#21 12 years ago
Quoted from FatsoPilot:

Drano said:Also, make sure to buy new flipper bat bushings. These inexpensive white collars that your flipper post slides into can often crack without being noticed and they will not only cause your flipper bat to wobble, but will also put your playfield at risk of damage. They are not included with most rebuild kits.
Where is this piece located? What is the flipper bat? Is this piece in the hole that runs through the playfield connecting up to the flipper?

The flipper bat is the plastic part of the flipper on which the rubber sits. The bushing goes between the playfield and the bracket underneath. On williams games, you have to remove the entire bracket to replace the bushing because there are 3 5/16" nuts on the end of the 3 screws that hold the bushings.

These are flipper bats:
http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=269&parent=0

These are the bushings:
http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=270&parent=0

#22 12 years ago

People often think a weak flipper is caused by a broken or wrong coil and then replace it with a stronger type. 99% of the times the manufacturer had the type of coil right of course and the problem is fixable without replacing the coil.
When doing work on the flipper you don't have to be super careful not to break the solder points.
You can just let the coil hang by the wires. If a wire comes off it was a bad connection and needed to be resoldered anyway.
Btw. very good advise to do one at a time because it's very easy to forget where everything should go back.

#23 12 years ago

$130 bucks? You got off easy

#24 12 years ago
Quoted from Anim8ormatt:

$130 bucks? You got off easy

. Maybe I should buy another machine then .

#25 12 years ago

I recently rebuilt my DE SW. Coil Config you have above looked identical to what I saw on mine.

I had a sluggish flipper as well. As stated above, its usually not the coil. I replaced the coil sleeve, plunger, and the plunger/coil stop (along with the flippers and new bushings).

My underpowered/slugish flipper was due to the plunger and coil stop being mushroomed. It (plunger) was dragging inside of the coil sleeve. Replacing these three items alone (sleeve, plunger, stop), brought it back to full power.

After 20+ years you can be certain that these 3 parts are toast.....

#26 12 years ago

The best part is when you get the "re-build" done, you wont have to do it again for a very long time (if ever again). I did my first rebuild 4 years ago and still goin strong today. I still need to replace the cabinet flipper switches as these things look like the originals, but still works. I'am the type --if it aint broke then no need to fix it.

#27 12 years ago
Quoted from markmon:

The 5032 is a weaker cool than the 5020-30. You can tell by measuring the impedance of the coils. The lower, the stronger the coil. So since the left side has a stronger coil and is weaker, you need a flipper rebuild rather than a new coil (most likely).

Back that train up.

5032 coils are stronger, are they not? That's why they are recommended for GnR.

#28 12 years ago

Yeah... I seem to have purchased $200 in "stuff" each time I have bought a machine.

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