(Topic ID: 112067)

Fixing a few issues on my first pin (Black Rose)


By Bubbatom

6 years ago



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  • 12 posts
  • 5 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 6 years ago by GRUMPY
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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#1 6 years ago

Hello everyone!
First post on the Pinside!

Recently I picked up my first pinball machine, a majestic Black Rose! I'm 17, still in school and had been saving up for a machine ever since I re-discovered the wonders of it. Two days ago one popped up on "Gumtree", an Australian website similar to ebay. It was in decent shape, fairly cheap for an Australian machine ($2550) and not too far away from I lived so I thought I'd check it out, though the cabinet was pretty faded.

I ended up buying it, it was in great condition as it was a home use machine. Upon taking it home and setting it up, I did have several gripes with it though and was wondering if some of you friendly pinsiders could give me your opinions on fixing some of these problems (surprisingly, the cannon is in decent shape, and the fact that the ball is sometimes effected by the grooves on it doesn't really bother me as much as the following):

- The first thing I noticed was that the plunger seemed either a bit weak or was not hitting the ball in the center. On a full plunge, the ball can make it into Davy Jones Locker to load the cannon, but cannot go the whole way around the upper loop as it does on other machines. The problem may even be that I need a different spring in the plunger to get it all the way around that loop?

- My second issue that also has to do with the plunger is that if the plunger is pushed forward a couple of centimeters, the ball will roll the same distance up the shooter lane and stay there, unable to roll back without taking the glass off. The ball will usually sit a couple of millimeters out of reach from the plunger. A real pain!

- The last and possibly the biggest problem is to do with the multiball. Instant multiball, achieved by hitting the ball to broadside while the "multiball" light is lit, works fine. It traps the first ball in broadside, releases another into the shooter lane and you have yourself two ball multiball.
The conventional multiball is what does not work properly. Lighting the locks is fine, but when you shoot to the Pirate's Cove to lock the first ball, a second ball is not released into the shooterlane as it should. The game goes into multiball mode anyway, despite there being only one ball in play, offering the same scoring, etc.
While I am not sure as to the reason why a second ball is not released, I believe it has something to do with the two switches inside Pirate's Cove. Whenever a ball is shot into the Cove, whether to start multiball or not, the kicker shoots the ball out but then goes off two more times, despite nothing being there for it to kick! I have noticed that the left switch in the Pirates Cove stays down during and after the ball is in there, but comes back up half way on the second kick from the kicker and then all the way on the third. Sorry, if that's a little hard to understand!

So, if anyone (especially those with a Black Rose) has any ideas on how I could fix these problems that'd be great and much appreciated! The problem with the multiball is the one that makes me want to pull my hair out the most! I haven't included photos, as I reckon these problems are pretty self-explanatory, but if anyone wants some, I'll be sure to add them!

Thanks for your time, Tom

#2 6 years ago

You definitely need a new spring for the plunger. I had the same issue when I first got my CBW. A new plunger spring fixed the issue right up. The long spring in front not the little one outside the machine although it wouldn't hurt replacing that spring also. As far as the multi-ball feature, it definitely sounds like a switch issue, but I am not 100% sure. Also replacing the tip on the plunger is a good idea.

#3 6 years ago

Seventeen and your first pin. Good job! On to your problems. The plunger can be adjusted to hit the center of the ball by loosening the 3 screws on the inside of the cabinet and moving it up/down or left/right then retightening the screws. BR needs the strongest spring made made so yours has gotten weaker over time and needs to be changed. Best thing is to rebuild the unit or replace it. I replace the shooter rod the sleeve and both springs, makes it like new. When the ball rolls forward and stays there, is the shooter lane switch keeping the ball from rolling back, or is there a divot in the shooter lane that the ball gets stuck in? The switches in the pirates cove are not working freely. You need to see if the switch wire is draging on something or is it just gummed up. Maybe clean wire pivot with 90% RA or replace if needed. P/S don't pull your hair out just yet because it will fall out soon enought. Let us know how you make out with repairs, Don.

#4 6 years ago

Thanks for the replies guys!

-While I probably do need a new spring, I did have a fiddle with loosening screws earlier this morning. I couldn't really position the rod so that it hit the ball in the center though without having the square plunger support on the outside of the cabinet twisted a certain way. I may need to tinker around a bit more to confirm this though.

Does it really matter which of the springs on this page go on the plunger? and if I bought the whole assembly, would I need a different spring?:
http://www.pinballspareparts.com.au/catalogsearch/result/?q=shooter+spring

- There is no divet, so I assume it's the switch keeping the ball there. If so, what next?

- How easy is it to adjust a switch from the underside of the playfield? Because, the "Pirate's Cove" is protected by plastic that covers the lane and it's switches. This plastic is difficult to remove because it is situated under a ramp and that ramp is under another plastic and it's all really complictaed to get to. What exactly is "wire pivot"? I'll check the wires anyway!

Thanks again, I'll get onto these problems now!

#5 6 years ago

Check the P/F brackets that are on the lower end of the P/F, may be bend or out of adjustment causing the P/F to be askew which won't allow you to adjust shooter enough. The switches are micro switches with a bent piece of wire welded to a bracket that pops onto the switch and it pivots at the spot it pops onto. They can be adjusted from under the P/F. You will need the red spring, I'm not sure witch spring comes with the assembly.

#6 6 years ago
Quoted from Bubbatom:

Thanks for the replies guys!
-While I probably do need a new spring, I did have a fiddle with loosening screws earlier this morning. I couldn't really position the rod so that it hit the ball in the center though without having the square plunger support on the outside of the cabinet twisted a certain way. I may need to tinker around a bit more to confirm this though.
Does it really matter which of the springs on this page go on the plunger? and if I bought the whole assembly, would I need a different spring?:
http://www.pinballspareparts.com.au/catalogsearch/result/?q=shooter+spring

I had the same problem with hitting the loop shot. "braaaawk, Polly says, shooter rod assembly is f_cked up"

get the red shooter spring, install it and test it. you may have to "adjust" the ball guide where it leaves the alley on its way to the locker ramp to make sure it hits the center of the ramp. different tension springs will cause the ball to assume different trajectories. also see if your shooter rod is bent by rotating it while watching the tip and let us know what you find. scoring hint: double broadside

#7 6 years ago

I'll give the red spring a go! The current spring certainly does seem pretty weak compared to other machines I've played.

As for multiball, I've had a good look, and it appears that the end of the wire (right side) on the left switch in Pirates Cove is getting caught on the upper side of the hole where it is positioned. The kicker must be vibrating or bumping the switch back into place, but for the several seconds that is down more than it should, it is probably what is preventing a second ball from being loaded into the shooter lane.
IMG_7939.JPG
I found it incredibly difficult to snap a decent picture of the problem, so the one provided will have to do.
This may prove to be difficult to fix, as the plastic covering the Cove is not going anywhere and I'm not 100% sure how I would go about fixing this from under the playfield.

Thanks for all the support so far guys! Sure am glad that the Pinside exists!

Cheers, Tom

#8 6 years ago

You can remove the two screws holding in place and drop it down, bend wire as needed and replace. When you tighten the screws, there's enough play in the holes to allow some adjustment too.

#9 6 years ago

Thanks Grumpy!

I finally managed to fix the darn thing! Loosening one screw allowed enough adjustment to get the switch in place, out of the way of the side of the hole. Now I can enjoy multiball! Thanks for walking me through these issues guys, you've all been a great help!

One last thing though;

Quoted from GRUMPY:

Check the P/F brackets that are on the lower end of the P/F, may be bend or out of adjustment causing the P/F to be askew which won't allow you to adjust shooter enough.

This may be a problem. I notice it more-so when a ball is placed at the top of the playfield and rather than rolling down between the flippers, it rolls slightly to the right. Is there an easy way to correct this?

Thanks so much, Tom

#10 6 years ago

That's probably not a problem with the playfield itself, you need to adjust the leg levelers on the bottom of the legs by screwing them up and down. You want the playfield around 6.5 degrees sloped down and the left and right obviously even. They're usually rusted and crappy, for the $2/ea they cost, I just replace them on all my games.

This site has more than you could even want to know about about turning a screw: http://www.pinballnews.com/learn/level/

#11 6 years ago

I'll have to check that site out! Certainly appears helpful!

I'm not sure it is the levelers as a spirit level suggests that the game is even and I even measured the legs themselves and they matched up too!

#12 6 years ago

Sometimes the P/F can warp a little bit, its no big deal. Thats why each pin plays a little different. Just check the gap on each side of the P/F to see if its even and centered. Make sure to put the level on the P/F when you level the machine, not the glass or cabinet.

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