(Topic ID: 197732)

Five targetscore on godlieb surf champ reset

By Lambecka

6 years ago


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  • 20 posts
  • 5 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 6 years ago by Lambecka
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#1 6 years ago

Problem with godlieb surf champ. Machine is up,and running after storage for 12 years.
Cleaned everything and machine is running ok exept the five target drop,scores. Starting an new game they don,t reset , also in a game when move on to second ball they dont reset.
Playing formexample the first ball and and hit the five rollover stars they do reset, but at the end of the ball or game they don,t reset.

#2 6 years ago

The target reset coil and the sequence reset coil are on the 110/120 volt side in North America. In Europe those coils should be on the 220/230 volt side of the transformer. If both are not resetting, then I would look at the U relay switch with the brown wire and yellow wire. Also, check score motor switch 4B - red wire and brown wire. Make sure these switches are clean and adjusted properly... And check the two fuses in those circuits to make sure they are good...

#3 6 years ago

Thanks will give it a try and see if i can find the suggested relay and switches. Problem is that i don,t have and cann,t fond any documentation for this machine.
Also looking for info about the game and different options

#4 6 years ago

First thing to look at is the fuse which resides adjacent to the drop target bank on the bottom side of the playfield. It is a slow blow fuse.

Being a single reset coil it will have only one fuse.

#5 6 years ago

Most likely it's the switch on the (G) 5000 Point and Target Bank Reset relay.

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#6 6 years ago

Documentation for all Gottlieb machines is widely available. Unfortunately, the majority of sources for Gottlieb manuals and schematics are from retail sources where you would have to buy the manuals and schematics... I prefer to trade for manuals and schematics. I'm sure there are people here on Pinside that have the manual and schematic for Surf Champ. I bet they would trade for other documentation...

#7 6 years ago

Thanks guys for all te quick responses.
Checked every thing suggested but problem still remains
When during the game hit all te star rollovers the droptargets do,reset immediatly no problem.
But with next ball or starting new game they don,t reset
Albert

#8 6 years ago

I'd have a look at the "gateway" switches that can send power to the target bank reset coil and the sequence bank reset coil at the same time. First look at P relay switch with the yellow wire and orange wire, and the S relay switch with the yellow wire and orange wire. Make sure these switches are clean and adjusted properly. Then check any switches that send power to the P relay coil like the trough switch with the brown/white wire and brown/black wire. Make sure the trough switch is clean and opening/closing correctly...

#9 6 years ago

Checked them all but no succes. Relay and switches cleaned and adjusted where nesecarry.
The five drop down targets reset perfect when rollover stars are hit, but restarting or next ball they still,fail to reset
Albert

#10 6 years ago

We'll need to start from the beginning - player walks up to the machine and presses the start/credit button... When the start/credit button is pressed, it actuates the S relay and it starts the score motor running. This will cause score motor switch 4B in the third position to close, and this will send power to the target bank reset circuit and the sequence bank reset circuit. At this point U relay is still energized and a switch on U relay will continue to send power to the target bank reset circuit and the sequence bank reset circuit. After this, AX relay actuates, but U relay will de-energize when AX relay operates...

So, you push the start/credit button, score motor starts running, target bank and sequence bank reset, and the score reels start to reset. Looking at this operating cycle, it seems like the AX relay switches are operating too soon and this causes the U relay switch to open and it prevents power from getting to both reset banks.

I would take a look at the AX relay to see how the switches are adjusted. This might be a "timing" issue where the closed switches are opening too soon. When I say timing, I'm talking about milliseconds between the operation of each relay and switch. On the AX relay look at the switch with the green/white wire and the red/white wire and see if you can experiment with the adjustment of the switch. Also, check the tension spring on the relay...

#11 6 years ago

Fred,
Fully understand your explanation, but what happens when, moving from ball one to ball two during the game in relation to the switches to get power to the target bank?? Because after every ball played , target bank need to reset as well and it does not.
I will start with the AX as you suggested, will take some time, but let you know
Appreciate your help
Albert

#12 6 years ago

Followed the start procedure and everything goes aas you described,
On the moment that the targetbank needs to,reset , only the sequencebank goes.
Must be same Power supply,
Dont have scheme, but must be possible to make bypass from the sequence bank??

#13 6 years ago

When you start a game power goes through a start relay switch and power continues to the sequence bank reset coil and to a G relay switch. Then G relay switch sends power to the target bank reset coil. If only the sequence bank is resetting during the start of a game, then you'll need to look at the G relay switch with the blue/orange wire. When you start the game, is this G relay switch open or closed?

A note on operation: the target bank reset coil will always energize and reset the target assembly at the start of a game whether or not the targets are up or down. If all the targets are up, the target assembly will still be reset.

Also, the target bank reset coil is in a circuit that includes coils and switches on the main cabinet and the playfield. Check the playfield Jones plugs that plug into the main board. Unplug the playfield Jones plugs from the main board, make sure they are clean, and then reseat the Jones plugs and make sure they are fully plugged into the main board...

#14 6 years ago

Here my findings
When starting a game looking inside the cabinet the G coil is in the relaxed position. During startup nothing happens with this coil. And targets not resets
Then i opens the playfield , started a game and manual drop all the targets and by hand touch the rollover starts, same time look to the G coil and see that it operates and reset the targets.
Jones plugs cleaned and reinstalled.
All other option on the playfield works perfect
Switches of the G coil adjusted and cleaned.
Still same problem only sequense bank resets

Maybe use a power line that operates the sequense bank and attache to the targetbank??? Bypass the system

#15 6 years ago

Let's try to troubleshoot the issue during the start of a game:

The switch on G relay is a make/break switch (two switch stack), so if the coil is energized one switch will be closed and one will be open. Then the opposite is true when there is no power to the G relay coil. So, we'll need to know if the switch with the blue wire and orange wire on the G relay is open or closed when the machine goes through the reset process.

If we look at the schematic, it shows the switch with the blue wire and orange wire on the G relay is normally closed when the machine is powered off. And this is what we want - at the start of a game, the switch with the blue wire and orange wire on the G relay should be closed and there should be no power to the G relay coil. If you're saying there is no power to the G relay during the start of a game, then the switch with the blue wire and orange wire should be in the correct "closed" position.

If that switch is closed, you'll need to clean the switch again and adjust it. Sometimes you need to "scrub" the switch with a Flex stone or a paper finger nail file to get the switch contacts really clean. If you have a multi-meter, you can measure to see if you're getting any voltage at that switch...

I wouldn't recommend adding any wires to the machine, but you can always use some temporary jumper wires to get power to the G relay switch if needed for troubleshooting purposes...

#16 6 years ago

Hi
I did not read all posts --- so I may not understand the problem - I believe to read: The Target Bank does reset during play - playing good - the G-Relay pulls-in.
Unfortunately the Target Bank does not reset when starting a new game - does not reset when kicking out a new ball to the shooter-alley --- I hope that "this my assumption" is the problem in the pin.

See the snippet of schematics HowardR showed in post-5 --- the "green line connection works: When the G-Relay throws the 3-bladed Make-and-Brake-Switch.
For the problem I would investigate on "Wire-color-orange on P- and S- and G-Relay" - I would investigate on "Wire-color-yellow on P- and S-Relay. Greetings Rolf

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#17 6 years ago

Ok guys , need again go,into the box.
What i don,t understand is that G coil works perfect when all the rollover targets are hit and target bank resets.
Does,that not proof that the G coil,works,perfect??

#18 6 years ago

The path of power through the G relay is different during start up and between say during gameplay with ball 1. Right now we're trying to troubleshoot why the target assembly does not reset during the reset process when starting a new game. In this case, we wouldn't need the G relay coil to be working at the start of a game in order to get power to the target reset bank coil...

#19 6 years ago

Hi Lambecka
the G-Relay does actuate as it should / must. This is fine.
When the G-Relay pulls and the three-bladed-Switch is moved: Nice - You have connection along "my green line". This is fine.

We do not know: When the G-Relay is not pulling and so the switch is "as shown in the snippet" --- do You have connection through ?
We do not know: Has a wire-color-in-the-pin-color-orange broken-off a solder-lug - somewhere.
We do not know: Has a wire-color-in-the-pin-color-yellow broken-off a solder-lug - somewhere. Greetings Rolf

#20 6 years ago

bingo!!
Finally it works. Looked again closer to the G coil especialy to the three blade switch with the orange, yellow and blue wire.
Adjusted a bit and cleaned. Noted that this switch have different shape and color then the others, maybe renewed in the past.
By noted this started to make new solders on the orange ,blue and the yellow one and guess what happens it works.
There was nothing to see on the existing solders, but for sure theremwas the Problem.
Like to,thank you all for the patience you had with me as beginner, appreciated your quick help very much.
Albert
THe Netherlands

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