(Topic ID: 194905)

Fishtales restarts


By Metzu

2 years ago



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  • 53 posts
  • 15 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 years ago by arolden
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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There are 53 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.
#1 2 years ago

hi guys could you help im kind of a noob i got a fishtales and restarts,sometimes the shooter wont shoot the ball

#2 2 years ago

Follow the steps :

http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Williams_WPC#Game_resets

Shooter - narrow down. Tests - Switch Edge , then Tests - Coils ( solenoids ) narrow down to one or the other. Then post back here for guidance.

LTG : )

#3 2 years ago
Quoted from Metzu:

hi guys could you help im kind of a noob i got a fishtales and restarts,sometimes the shooter wont shoot the ball

Depends on what you mean by 'restarts'. If the whole game is resetting/rebooting get the wpc daughter board for this problem on this site...
http://www.kahr.us/

#4 2 years ago
Quoted from LTG:

Follow the steps :
http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Williams_WPC#Game_resets
Shooter - narrow down. Tests - Switch Edge , then Tests - Coils ( solenoids ) narrow down to one or the other. Then post back here for guidance.
LTG : )

Thank you LTG
i did that sometimes works ok and sometimes wont shoot the ball others it restarts ill try reseating every conector i just got it delivered from very far away.

#5 2 years ago

After that,it wont turn on im desperate

#6 2 years ago

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#7 2 years ago
Quoted from Metzu:

ill try reseating every conector

Quoted from Metzu:

After that,it wont turn on im desperate

Any chance a ribbon cable is on backwards ( should be red stripe pin one each end ) ? Off a row ?

LTG : )

#8 2 years ago
Quoted from tslayer71:

Depends on what you mean by 'restarts'. If the whole game is resetting/rebooting get the wpc daughter board for this problem on this site...
http://www.kahr.us/

His analysis is an interesting read, would be worth a shot but I would be inclined to first recap the power supply if suspect.

metzu ... if reseating connectors is having an impact you may be on the right track. Some things to consider:
- Solder joints at the pins could be weak an need re-flowing.
- The ribon cables can sometimes go bad
- pins in the connectors can sometimes go weak and/or break and need replacing.

Congrats on a fun game BTW, would love one myself someday.

#9 2 years ago
Quoted from merccat:

His analysis is an interesting read, would be worth a shot but I would be inclined to first recap the power supply if suspect.
metzu ... if reseating connectors is having an impact you may be on the right track. Some things to consider:
- Solder joints at the pins could be weak an need re-flowing.
- The ribon cables can sometimes go bad
- pins in the connectors can sometimes go weak and/or break and need replacing.
Congrats on a fun game BTW, would love one myself someday.

god bless you for try to help me im not having a good time here

#10 2 years ago

20170802_023510 (resized).jpg

#11 2 years ago

Can you first check the 5 volt LED in the center of the powerdriver.
And check fuse F113

#12 2 years ago
Quoted from zaza:

Can you first check the 5 volt LED in the center of the powerdriver.
And check fuse F113

how do i check them?

#13 2 years ago
Quoted from Metzu:

how do i check them?

thank you i will

#14 2 years ago

Do you have a DMD? (digital multi meter).

#15 2 years ago

Those wires explain a lot. You need to get some new Molex connectors from Pinballlife and put new connectors on the end of those wires. You will be chasing a lot of goblins so long as you have connections like that.

#16 2 years ago
Quoted from Manimal:

Those wires explain a lot. You need to get some new Molex connectors from Pinballlife and put new connectors on the end of those wires. You will be chasing a lot of goblins so long as you have connections like that.

Those wires are all for his general illumination and are not the cause of his resets.
A scrambled dmd, I would suspect ribbon cables and reset all the ribbons. It's also possible your caps and bridges have seen better days.
How do the connectors look on the far right top side of the driver?

#17 2 years ago

6 wires have been cut and spliced!!!! Then soldered direct to the board!!!! Didnt even replace the connector....sheesh.....hatchet job! Electrical tape....probably didnt even solder under that..... Top fuse holder has seen a lot of heat....third one has as well. They are charred so badly on the ends the resistance is huge there....probably fall apart when ya remove them....from the view i have......all new fuse holders. Two new fuses...replace hatchet crappy third grade wiring splicing...remove board to replace the male connection in two places and put new female connectors on those areas...so four connectors...two male, two female....repost when done so we can see it working and you smiling!

#18 2 years ago

This was shipped with head down i assume...also make sure ya dont have pinched wiring under the head when ya folded it upright....those soldered connections are dangerous!!! Both to that board and ruination of the entire umbillical wiring assembly....make sure the right fuses are there...the right amperages as well....look at the heat on that top fuse and holder, and the third!!

#19 2 years ago

And....it is quite possible one or more shorts still exist...but until you correct the previous issues nobody can help

#20 2 years ago

This board needs a total rebuild,problem of dmd if not ribbons cables can be the dmd itself

#21 2 years ago
Quoted from shacklersrevenge:

Those wires are all for his general illumination and are not the cause of his resets.
A scrambled dmd, I would suspect ribbon cables and reset all the ribbons. It's also possible your caps and bridges have seen better days.
How do the connectors look on the far right top side of the driver?

Even GI problems can cause voltage fluctuations....I was thinking about the resets and not the DMD. I do agree that could be a ribbon cable..

Beyond that though, take a look at that bottom left fuse.....do I see a wire soldered to the outside? That needs to go as well...........

#22 2 years ago

By the time he corrects fuses and fuseholders his probs will likely vanish! Very doubtful of a ribbon cable......but...fuseholders omggggg.....if you think g.i. issues won't drop current to the d.m.d....you are wrong, wrong, wrong! You have plus 100 -100 give or take and low voltages going into the same dmd driver...ya have 120 straight from the power pole....compromise the 120 from apco...with screw up g.i.s....the mpu sees brownout syndroneville! Let the man rebuil the fuse holders and get rid of that nasty direct board soldering crap....guess what....current is smooth...if ya have a use an o'scope ya see the ripple entering every board...a.c. Noise everwhere in that pin! That folks causes Resets!

#23 2 years ago

A.C. is gonna be riding into your five volts....forget about simple voltage measurements...they are a brief substitute...in this case look at the a.c. riding the d.c. no meter shows that! But spectrum analyzers and oscopes do.

#24 2 years ago

http://www.imcpower.com/prodigit/an_403.htm

Please read as it explains what ive said much better!

#25 2 years ago

Hmm, i suppose.
Unplug those three gi connectors and the problem will go away, if the gi is at fault.

#26 2 years ago

Not with fuse holders so bad as well...its all relevant

#27 2 years ago
Quoted from Thunderfoot:

Not with fuse holders so bad as well...its all relevant

He can take all those fuses out in that section-all are for the gi, then he can see if it is gi related/resets.

#28 2 years ago

Ok im an idiot on this one folks...im looking at a pic i thought was a different board...dahm...the resets will be caused by upper right hand corner....br1...br2...2 cap section...i wish the pic would have shown the entire board!!...common problem during this era...rebuild the power...recap..resolder connectors...looking at way way to many pics and working on to much variety.....my apology here!!

#29 2 years ago
Quoted from shacklersrevenge:

Those wires are all for his general illumination and are not the cause of his resets.
A scrambled dmd, I would suspect ribbon cables and reset all the ribbons. It's also possible your caps and bridges have seen better days.
How do the connectors look on the far right top side of the driver?

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15017101051091748769393 (resized).jpg

#30 2 years ago

Guys im a noob you are all that i have i bougt the machine because i tough that for$1200 it was a good deal it was working then it started to restart after i check the conectors i wont start again

#31 2 years ago
Quoted from Metzu:

Guys im a noob you are all that i have i bougt the machine because i tough that for$1200 it was a good deal it was working then it started to restart after i check the conectors i wont start again

You need to revisit the seller. They bandaged that game up juuuuuuuust enough to make a sale. Someone sold you their problems.

What I would do: buy a new Rottendog power driver board. For only $300, you will KNOW everything on the board is good, you can sell your old board for about half the cost, and then you can start addressing your wiring issues.

You've got a bit of a basketcase, and I'd eliminate the big variable with the board....

#32 2 years ago

If you can tolerate working through the issues and the game is otherwise in decent shape 1,200 sounds like a you still got a good deal.

#33 2 years ago
Quoted from NPO:

You need to revisit the seller. They bandaged that game up juuuuuuuust enough to make a sale. Someone sold you their problems.
What I would do: buy a new Rottendog power driver board. For only $300, you will KNOW everything on the board is good, you can sell your old board for about half the cost, and then you can start addressing your wiring issues.
You've got a bit of a basketcase, and I'd eliminate the big variable with the board....

That still won't fix the connector issues. Replacing the board isn't the answer here.

I would suggest paying a technician a couple of hundred to fix your issues correctly and completely.

Watch him as he fixes things - most techs will be happy to show you what they are up to.

It might be the best few hundred you can spend long term. Sometimes you just have to accept that some things are beyond your current level of expertise.

#34 2 years ago

Buyer/OP, you did great at $1200. You have an operating fish tales that resets, not a big deal.

I would not recommend buying a rottendog driver. Your connectors need to be repinned, it's common and not the end of the world but it has to be done before anything else.
The manual if you have one or ipdb.org has a pdf of it, will guide you through exactly what wire goes where if there is any doubt. Doing connectors are not difficult with the right tool/s.

Once your connectors are good, either pay some about $150-200 to service that driver board, or buy a reconditioned one for around $250 and sell the one you have for $75-100 to offset the cost.
From there, you'll be hooking the big one without further resets.

Edit: if you do buy another driver, you need to buy one with a relay (upper left corner of the board) later game revisions do not have this relay which you need for fish tales.

#35 2 years ago
Quoted from Metzu:

Guys im a noob you are all that i have i bougt the machine because i tough that for$1200 it was a good deal it was working then it started to restart after i check the conectors i wont start again

Do not sweat this one, not yet anyways. I carefully eye balled your driver board pic and its commonly burned areas for a routed fish tales. It needs some fresh hands to it, is all.

#36 2 years ago
Quoted from shacklersrevenge:

Do not sweat this one, not yet anyways. I carefully eye balled your driver board pic and its commonly burned areas for a routed fish tales. It needs some fresh hands to it, is all.

thank you shacklersrevenge

at first it was restarting after i check and reseated every conector i wont start
since i am a noob and i dont have the tools or experince am going to have it serviced...

#37 2 years ago
Quoted from zaza:

Can you first check the 5 volt LED in the center of the powerdriver.
And check fuse F113

Have you tried what Zaza suggested yet? If not, you should!

-1
#38 2 years ago
Quoted from Homepin:

That still won't fix the connector issues. Replacing the board isn't the answer here.

As I said, replace the board...THEN...Address your wiring issues.

We are telling him to recap the power supply, take the whole board out, read pinwiki on reset issues, swap out the male header pins...ALL on the power driver board, but replacing the board is out of the question?

In the realm of difficulty, replacing board components can lift and pull traces, and then he can be in a world of hurt. Snipping off 26 year old IDC connectors, stripping the insulation, crimping on new terminals, and putting on new molex connectors is easier to recover from.

Either way, both the connectors and the board components are suspect. If they werent, we wouldn't be telling him "Go read pinwiki..."

#39 2 years ago
Quoted from NPO:

As I said, replace the board...THEN...Address your wiring issues.
We are telling him to recap the power supply, take the whole board out, read pinwiki on reset issues, swap out the male header pins...ALL on the power driver board, but replacing the board is out of the question?
In the realm of difficulty, replacing board components can lift and pull traces, and then he can be in a world of hurt. Snipping off 26 year old IDC connectors, stripping the insulation, crimping on new terminals, and putting on new molex connectors is easier to recover from.
Either way, both the connectors and the board components are suspect. If they werent, we wouldn't be telling him "Go read pinwiki..."

It is very clear reading the OP's posts that he lacks even a basic understanding of electronics. He should send the board out for repair as well as replacing the connectors BUT I feel even this is beyond his current level of expertise. Little point in him reading PinWiki at this early stage in his pinball life.

Some aftermarket boards are known to have quirky problems - I ALWAYS advocate repairing rather than replacing.

I suggest employing a technician is the best, and probably the cheapest, way forward here.

#40 2 years ago
Quoted from Homepin:

It is very clear reading the OP's posts that he lacks even a basic understanding of electronics. He should send the board out for repair as well as replacing the connectors BUT I feel even this is beyond his current level of expertise. Little point in him reading PinWiki at this early stage in his pinball life.
Some aftermarket boards are known to have quirky problems - I ALWAYS advocate repairing rather than replacing.
I suggest employing a technician is the best, and probably the cheapest, way forward here.

Fair enough, and I do follow your logic. To me, you have to get your feet wet sometime. On that note though, everyone is different, and if sending it out to a professional is the OP's best level of comfort, I'm tracking on that.

#41 2 years ago
Quoted from Homepin:

That still won't fix the connector issues. Replacing the board isn't the answer here.
I would suggest paying a technician a couple of hundred to fix your issues correctly and completely.
Watch him as he fixes things - most techs will be happy to show you what they are up to.
It might be the best few hundred you can spend long term. Sometimes you just have to accept that some things are beyond your current level of expertise.

This is the best advice in this thread. Update your location and maybe a local pinsider can help/teach you or, at the very least, help you find a local tech.

Try to learn from the tech by asking questions and observing. Maybe even pay for an extra hour of their time to teach you some basics. You'll learn valuable info and be able to enjoy your game much faster. Money well spent.

#42 2 years ago
Quoted from MGMPIN:

This is the best advice in this thread. Update your location and maybe a local pinsider can help/teach you or, at the very least, help you find a local tech.
Try to learn from the tech by asking questions and observing. Maybe even pay for an extra hour of their time to teach you some basics. You'll learn valuable info and be able to enjoy your game much faster. Money well spent.

thank you

#43 2 years ago

What state are you located in, other than confused, ha! I travel into four now. Va., N.C. S.C. Tenn. If ya fall in one of those states I can probably help. Quite frankly, ya did not get burned at all for 1200! I'll buy it for that!

I think the seller, or at least one of the previous sellers should have informed someone of the ticking time bomb inside. Puhlease tell me you bought this from a private individual, and not a retail environment. It is arses like that setting pinballs on fire and burning house wiring up! I am dying to know whats under the electrical tape! Who wants to bet....soldered....not soldered? He probably soldered because he damn sure soldered everything else in sight! If by chance you live in Va...drop it off with me....I'll even let ya take a loaner until shopped and fixed. I have four or five of those displays. Plenty of connectors, caps for it. Plenty of fuse holders. The board can be easily saved. I am pretty sure the display will be fine...I'd gamble on that..unless it is over fused! 80 percent chance methinks! Has anyone noticed something....wires were soldered first to male header pins....later...board needed to come out for one reason or another....no reason to unsolder....just cut the wiring lol and add another weak link with splicing....omg!

#44 2 years ago

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#45 2 years ago

Best guess from that photo... diode D3 shorted open so they attached a new one to it so they wouldn't have to desolder both ends because they obviously sucked at desoldering by the way the pad got mutulated... or they only had a other used diode on them and the leads were too short... or they figured that way it wouldn't melt the board more if their replacement also burned up?

Regardless of why its ugly... might not be hurting anything as is though... i would still replace it with a fresh proper diode positioned properly there since it would only take a minute if you already had the board out.

#46 2 years ago

I was referring to the first pic on the thread.....the electrical taping and splices!

#47 2 years ago
Quoted from Thunderfoot:

I was referring to the first pic on the thread.....the electrical taping and splices!

Yeah, that's the first thing I would personally correct if I were working on it. Unless you have the equipment to bench test the boards independently, you can't really trust much of anything else until your interconnects are solid. For sure I wouldn't go replacing boards yet until the wiring is solid.

I was just commenting on that last pic.

From the pictures and op being pretty new at this stuff, it sounds like the concensus is (and I agree) there isn't really going to be much more we can do other than refer metzu to a good tech or nearby pinsider who is capable of helping.

#48 2 years ago
Quoted from merccat:

Yeah, that's the first thing I would personally correct if I were working on it. Unless you have the equipment to bench test the boards independently, you can't really trust much of anything else until your interconnects are solid. For sure I wouldn't go replacing boards yet until the wiring is solid.
I was just commenting on that last pic.
From the pictures and op being pretty new at this stuff, it sounds like the concensus is (and I agree) there isn't really going to be much more we can do other than refer metzu to a good tech or nearby pinsider who is capable of helping.

No one can really reach out and help him if he doesn't tell us where he lives.

#49 2 years ago
Quoted from NPO:

No one can really reach out and help him if he doesn't tell us where he lives.

south america argentina

i used to have a tales from the crypt on that machine i had to replace the drop targets but it was a mechanical task most than electronic

i realized that on this FT the drop target its missing(the mechanism) the drop target its there but its glued at the down position

#50 2 years ago

Argentina....oh my!...... Maybe its time for me to hitch a ride with The La Caretta guys in town here....the father owns that chain....lives in Argentina!

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