Fish Tales Switch Matrix help

I've fixes a lot of switch issues and have 2 on a FIsh Tales I am wrapping up.

1) New Rottendog and Still have Row 6 out....Looks like reading through the guides its time to get out my DMM and look for continuity between first switch and connector 209-8 Wht-blue

2) Last switch issue is the exciting problem of hit one switch and another few switches trigger....Hit switch 53 Right Jet and the screen also says ball popper and the right sling fires So look at 53,35, 33, and 55 for diode or ad switch. Ball popper is 47 so not sure why its being triggered. I think a couple switches actually make ball popper appear so looks like I have a diode failing or unsoldered?

#2 5 years ago

C M

CadillacMusic

Inactive member

Cleveland, OH

12y 48,650 1,035 44

Check for diodes installed backwards, too. I've seen that a few times.

#3 5 years ago

MLC

billsfanmd

Pinside member

Check for diodes installed backwards, too. I've seen that a few times.</blockquote

thx. i’ll def double check old work

#4 5 years ago

CLY

Cycloneman

Inactive member

Detroit, MI

8y 36,150 649

OP
Quoted from billsfanmd:
I've fixes a lot of switch issues and have 2 on a FIsh Tales I am wrapping up.
1) New Rottendog and Still have Row 6 out....Looks like reading through the guides its time to get out my DMM and look for continuity between first switch and connector 209-8 Wht-blue
2) Last switch issue is the exciting problem of hit one switch and another few switches trigger....Hit switch 53 Right Jet and the screen also says ball popper and the right sling fires So look at 53,35, 33, and 55 for diode or ad switch. Ball popper is 47 so not sure why its being triggered. I think a couple switches actually make ball popper appear so looks like I have a diode failing or unsoldered?

also check in the manual and see if those switches are in the same row on the switch matrix chart

#5 5 years ago

D G

Pin_Guy

Pinside member

Quoted from Cycloneman:
also check in the manual and see if those switches are in the same row on the switch matrix chart

Williams did a great job of laying out their switch matrix so you don't need to look at a manual to determine what columns or rows switches are on. The first number of the switch represents its column location, and the second number represents its row. This is why there are no switch numbers starting with 0 or ending with 9.

Switch 53 = Column 5 Row 3
Switch 33 = Column 3 Row 3
Switch 47 = Column 4 Row 7
etc...

#6 5 years ago

MLC

billsfanmd

Pinside member

Quoted from Pin_Guy:
Williams did a great job of laying out their switch matrix so you don't need to look at a manual to determine what columns or rows switches are on. The first number of the switch is the column and the second number is the row.
Switch 53 = Column 5 Row 3
Switch 33 = Column 3 Row 3
Switch 47 = Column 4 Row 7
etc...

I know I have one entire row out and a switch that fires multiple switches.

#7 5 years ago

D G

Pin_Guy

Pinside member

OP
Quoted from billsfanmd:
I know I have one entire row out and a switch that fires multiple switches.

The column issue is either U20 or a broken wire. A logic probe is insanely useful for working with the matrix as you can touch it to U20-13 and know instantly if you are generating your column 6 pulse.

TerryB's guide to logic probes:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/terrybs-guide-to-logic-probes

Buy the probe:
https://www.amazon.com/Elenco-Electronics-LP-560-Logic-Probe/dp/B000Z9HAP4/ref=sr_1_1

Once you have one and know how to use it you will wonder how you ever got along without one

#8 5 years ago

MLC

billsfanmd

Pinside member

Quoted from Pin_Guy:
The column issue is either U20 or a broken wire. A logic probe is insanely useful for working with the matrix as you can touch it to U20-13 and know instantly if you are generating your column 6 pulse.
TerryB's guide to logic probes:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/terrybs-guide-to-logic-probes
Buy the probe:
amazon.com link »
Once you have one and know how to use it you will wonder how you ever got along without one

thx pin guy. def will add one.

problem was on old mpu and still there on new rottendog. so hoping it’s a wire issue under pf

#9 5 years ago

D G

Pin_Guy

Pinside member

OP
Quoted from billsfanmd:
thx pin guy. def will add one.

problem was on old mpu and still there on new rottendog. so hoping it’s a wire issue under pf

Take a good look at your Column 6 drive wire on pin 6 of J206/J207 to make sure its ok at that point. You can also verify your column 6 drive by disconnecting your column and row connectors from the MPU at J206/207 and J208/209 and J212. You can then momentarily install a jumper between J207-6 and pin X of J208; if the column 6 drive is present, you will see a switch closure for each switch in column 6 corresponding to the row you jumper across to on J208.

#10 5 years ago

MLC

billsfanmd

Pinside member

Quoted from Pin_Guy:
Take a good look at your Column 6 drive wire on pin 6 of J206/J207 to make sure its ok at that point. You can also verify your column 6 drive by disconnecting your column and row connectors from the MPU at J206/207 and J208/209 respectively and using a jumper between J207 and pin X of J208; if the column 6 drive is present, you will see a switch closure for each switch in column 6 corresponding to the row you jumper across to on J208.

yep gonna do the mpu switch jumper test first thx

#11 5 years ago

MLC

billsfanmd

Pinside member

Ok..Have everything fixed except Row 6....It works great on MPU jumper test....I get continuity from all switches in Row 6 blue/white. I get continuity from connector J209-7 to any switches in Row 6....I still cant get any switches in Row 6 to activate....I also reversed the main ribbon cable from MPU to Driver just see if the short ribbon cable was the issue....any ideas where else to check?

#12 5 years ago

D G

Pin_Guy

Pinside member

My apologies, I initially read this as a column 6 issue. If you are jumping a column pulse from J207-X to J209-7 and don't get switch closures in row 6, then this points to an issue on the MPU. You will want to take a REAL good look at the MPU for battery corrosion and ohm out the connection from J208 to U13; If you have battery corrosion the most likely break will be between U19-14 and U13-4 as there is a transition from the top side of the board to the bottom side underneath R31. If all of the connections check out fine, then the most likely component failure would be the LM339 at U19.

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#13 5 years ago

MLC

billsfanmd

Pinside member

thx for the help. it’s a brand new rottendog board. the row problem was there on the old board. it passes the jumper test which indicated mpu is fine and problem is under pf

#14 5 years ago

MLC

billsfanmd

Pinside member