(Topic ID: 59816)

Fish Tales - intermittant reset


By LongJohns

6 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 33 posts
  • 20 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 5 years ago by CyberNinja24
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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#1 6 years ago

Will work fine for days and just out of the blue the game will 'power down' and reboot during a game.

I have recapped the power supply, and looking for other suggestions.

#2 6 years ago

http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Williams_WPC#Game_resets

I'd go through the check list before anything.

Replacing those big caps can do more board harm than good.

LTG : )

#6 6 years ago

Did you do the rectifier at the same time? I had the same problem and I replaced the bits as shown in the picture below.

Good luck.

board.jpg

Sorry about the previous posts, the upload went a bit haywire.

#7 6 years ago

@LTG - thanks, but have already gone through the checks listed. Figured I would at least start with the caps as they are old.

@Muppet_Man - thanks for the input. Didn't replace the rectifier (doesn't really make sense to me), but will add it to the list for the future parts order (suppose it can't hurt).

#8 6 years ago

lemmme know ive got the same thing going on im looking into the molex

#9 6 years ago

I had the same issue with my FT, I replaced the board altogether and the issue went away...I know that is a more expnsive way to go but fortunately for me the guy i got it from had an extra he was willing to part with.

#10 6 years ago
Quoted from Barrythick:

.I know that is a more expnsive way to go

But it worked for you.

I never complain about success.

LTG : )

#11 6 years ago

Try PM'ing Whysnow. I think he had the same problem on his. It mostly happen on the 3rd ball from what I witnessed. I think he got it solved on his machine.

#12 6 years ago

Its 85% of the time a bridge rectifier under the heat sink. Replace them both.

#13 6 years ago

Yeah, I'm getting the same thing...perhaps we're all encountering an issue that's a result of age. Sounds like the bridge rectifier may be at the heart of the issue. I'll let you kno how I go...

#14 6 years ago
Quoted from hassellcastle:

Its 85% of the time a bridge rectifier under the heat sink. Replace them both.

I had the same problem with my flintstones bridge rectifier fixed mine good luck

#15 6 years ago

FYI.
I'm doing a restoration on a customers Fish Tales right now myself.
His game was rebooting during game play, especially when both flippers were hit at the same time.

Solution:
Replaced both BR1 and BR2 under the heat sink last night and the problem is solved.

Another example of this being the #1 culprit of reboot issues.

#16 6 years ago
Quoted from hassellcastle:

Replaced both BR1 and BR2 under the heat sink last night and the problem is solved.

Another example of this being the #1 culprit of reboot issues.

But BR1 has nothing to do with reset issues.

Your removing the board and putting it back in, reseating connectors. Often does just as much good.

As these boards age, more damaged is risked to through board continuity when replacing components.

Ten years ago replacing BR2 was the norm. We've learned better. Now run through the Pinwiki check list first. BR2 last.

LTG : )

#17 6 years ago
Quoted from LTG:

Your removing the board and putting it back in, reseating connectors. Often does just as much good

I think if reseating connectors on a power supply does good (for the moment), the problem will return. In that case I would also resolder those connectors.

#18 6 years ago
Quoted from LTG:

http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Williams_WPC#Game_resets
I'd go through the check list before anything.
Replacing those big caps can do more board harm than good.
LTG : )

"A long time ago…in a pinball galaxy far, far away…a kindly fellow was playing a nice game of pinball, hitting all the shots, and earning multiball after multiball. Just as he was about to beat the game’s high score to date, the WPC game MPU reset.
A visitor, from the neighboring planetary system noted that, "I once fixed that by replacing BR2 and C5". And lo…the mantra was born."

#19 6 years ago
Quoted from LongJohns:

Didn't replace the rectifier

When I had this same issue on my Addams Family, I replaced C5 and BR2 and the issue happened less frequently but it still happened occasionally. Turns out there is a Molex connector on the right hand side of the board that was completely burnt. Once I replaced that connector, it seems to work much better.

#20 6 years ago

One other option. I have problems with a TAF during hot summer days as my external house voltage drops so that my basement receptacle voltage drops. This only occurs during the really hot days. I purchased a 1000VA UPS power supply ( from Staples about 100 bucks) and plugged the game into it. I tested it during a Hot day and it works great. During that hot day I plugged the TAF into the house receptacle and the game reset when hitting both flippers. Right away I plugged TAF into the UPS (which was plugged into the house receptacle) the problem went away and has not been back. I repeated this test several times with the same results. Between the voltage regulator and the battery pack in the UPS the Voltages on the TAF cards stay high enough to prevent the reset.

#21 6 years ago
Quoted from sulli10:

I purchased a 1000VA UPS power supply ( from Staples about 100 bucks) and plugged the game into it.

This is actually a really good idea. This does happen to me occasionally as well. And I have an extra UPS power supply like that around here somewhere. I'll have to try that!

#22 6 years ago
Quoted from sulli10:

One other option. I have problems with a TAF during hot summer days as my external house voltage drops so that my basement receptacle voltage drops. This only occurs during the really hot days. I purchased a 1000VA UPS power supply ( from Staples about 100 bucks) and plugged the game into it. I tested it during a Hot day and it works great. During that hot day I plugged the TAF into the house receptacle and the game reset when hitting both flippers. Right away I plugged TAF into the UPS (which was plugged into the house receptacle) the problem went away and has not been back. I repeated this test several times with the same results. Between the voltage regulator and the battery pack in the UPS the Voltages on the TAF cards stay high enough to prevent the reset.

Thanks - this was my original thought as well. I ran a separate circuit for my Fish Tales and another pinball so they were not sharing with the video games. Didn't solve anything, although I will admit that I am not monitoring the line voltage as it happens ever so intermittently (could go a month or 2 without a reset or it has happened once 3 times in the same day - mostly it will go weeks). Doesn't mean that there is still a voltage drop once in a while.

I did pull the board today and removed the old solder from all the connectors and rectifiers and put on some fresh solder (vs. just touching it up like the last time). Works like a champ, but then it was really intermittent before and mostly worked I so can't say that it is fixed 100%. Will have to see how it goes over the next few weeks/months.

Thanks for all the suggestions though, will see how it all goes.

3 months later
#23 5 years ago

Update ... Problem fixed!!! It turned out to be a burnt molex ( very hard to see) in the G.I. Matrix I think it was j2 but I can't remember ...

Thanks for all the input ...

#24 5 years ago
Quoted from Dawson:

Update ... Problem fixed!!! It turned out to be a burnt molex ( very hard to see) in the G.I. Matrix I think it was j2 but I can't remember ...
Thanks for all the input ...

It's been my experience that the issue is tarnished connectors a lot of the time, too. I would hazard a guess that the connectors are, in reality, a bigger issue than BR2 and C5

3 months later
#25 5 years ago

I'm incredibly green to all of this, so please talk really slow

I've got a fish tales that has the reset issues. It always resets if you hit the flippers at the same time early after starting the machine. Letting it warm up will allow you to play, but resets still occur.

I was going through "the list" before I started trying to replace things. I found what appears to be a fried (or certainly tarnished) connector at J101, I believe. Could this be my issue? I've never seen anything like this before. Is this the burnet molex image.jpglisted or the tarnished connectors?

Thanks in advance for the help.

#26 5 years ago
Quoted from CyberNinja24:

I found what appears to be a fried (or certainly tarnished) connector at J101, I believe. Could this be my issue? I've never seen anything like this before. Is this the burnet molex

Definitely a possibility.

One possible test is to insert J101's IDC 1/2 to 3/4s of the way and see if it resets.

If it doesn't, you need to replace both the connector and the header on the PCB at J101 (use a temperature controlled soldering station and solder at 750 degrees F--or send the board out for repair to someone like Chris Hibler or Borygard who post here).

But really, there's no alternative here but to go through all the steps in PinWiki methodically one-by-one and rule each one out in sequence one-by-one.

If you need equipment links to tackle this, just ask.

Many helpful responders here.

#27 5 years ago

Correct. Like LTG said, resets are usually caused by a bad connection issue. When I say "bad connection", don't get so focused on ONLY the plug connectors. A bad connection can be any thing really... Cold solder joint, bad plug connector, bent pin, corrosion somewhere, a broke trace/scratch on the PCB surface...

Cold, puckered solder joints and the all-too-common open "through holes" that connect to top traces of the PCB to the bottom traces of the PCB (yellow in picture below) will each need to be checked one at a time (guide).

About your question on the plug---> In all honesty, people would only be guessing if that connector is contributing to the problem. It would be best practice to replace and re-pin any connector that is browning like that BUT, that is likely NOT your only concern when trying to fix a case of the resets, even if the plug is relevant to the solution.

durch.gif

#28 5 years ago
Quoted from CyberNinja24:

I'm incredibly green to all of this, so please talk really slow
I've got a Fish Tales that has the reset issues. It always resets if you hit the flippers at the same time early after starting the machine. Letting it warm up will allow you to play, but resets still occur.
I was going through "the list" before I started trying to replace things. I found what appears to be a fried (or certainly tarnished) connector at J101, I believe. Could this be my issue? I've never seen anything like this before. Is this the burnet molex listed or the tarnished connectors?
Thanks in advance for the help.

image.jpg 133 KB

Yes, that's your problem. Or at the very least a large part of it. That connector AND the header pins will need replacing.

--
Rob Anthony
Pinball Classics
http://LockWhenLit.com
Quality Board Work - In Home Service
borygard at gmail dot com

#29 5 years ago

May not matter, but I switched to the non-ghosting roms and started having random resets, took them back out and replaced with originals and since then no problems at all.

#30 5 years ago

Going to dig through this thread tomorrow in more depth at the request of the OP, I'm only 20 minutes away.

1 week later
#31 5 years ago

Looked at cyberninja's machine today. Replaced a stressed varistor and j101 connector housing, which cured a boot-up delay problem. That gave a solid 4.95v at the power driver board, but was getting intermittant voltage that varied from 4.88 to 4.74 at L1 on the cpu board, and was sti resetting. New connectors a j114 and j201(?), and now giving a solid 4.9v at L1, was no longer resetting when I left, and I await a more long term report.

#32 5 years ago

First off, what a pleasure to meet Hans. If you need help with repairs, this is your guy.

The reset issues and issues actually getting the game to fire up seem to be resolved.

However, two additional issues seem present on my fish tales, that we didn't even know about when Hans was here. First, I'm having issues with the reel. Everything appears to be working well in test mode, but it clearly is not working properly. You should hit the caster's club three times to start multiball. However, sometimes it kicks out after locking one or two balls. Also, if you're playing a two player game, and the other player has locked a ball or two, it cannot locate those balls and goofs everything up. I've been reading about opto issues here.

And, as awesome as the video mode is (I absolutely love shooting the boats and jet skiers) it seems to just stop and take you back to normal game play about half way through. Is this mode stopped early if you're not shooting well?

In any event, a big thank you to Hans for swinging by and fixing the reset/start-up issues. And, I'm hopeful the other issues will be resolved soon.

#33 5 years ago

Update. I installed a new belt for the reel and this seems to have taken care of the issues with locking balls for multi-ball. Video mode will stop early if you shoot all your ammunition too soon (insert whatever joke you'd like right here).

The issues with starting the game and resets seem to be resolved thanks to the help of Hans.

I always hesitate to say things like this, but she seems to be running well.

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