(Topic ID: 237500)

Fish tales no 5 volts


By gameover1173

3 months ago



Topic Stats

  • 25 posts
  • 8 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 months ago by barakandl
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

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#1 3 months ago

Got a fish tales here that has no 5 volts on the driver board Replaced all the bridges and big caps
All traces are good, all connectors are reflowed
On both boards any help would be great

#2 3 months ago

Why did you replace ALL of those parts when only the 5V circuit has issues?

Have you measured incoming DC voltage?
Are you sure that C5 has not had a through hole pulled and that it is still in circuit? Buzz between C5 and BR2 DC outputs.
ā€”
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
Http://chrishiblerpinball.com/contact
http://www.PinWiki.com/ - The new place for pinball repair info

#3 3 months ago

Those parts where already replaced when I got it. C5 to b2 are solid.
Where should I measure the DC voltage coming at?

#4 3 months ago

BR2 and C5 might be solid, but are they connected to each other? Iā€™m wondering what the LM323K regulator will do with unfiltered fully rectified AC.

Measure between the positive output of BR2 and game ground, like the backbox braid. Clip a wire to the bridges positive lead for safety. Take an AC reading there too. It should be millivolts only.
ā€”
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
Http://chrishiblerpinball.com/contact
http://www.PinWiki.com/ - The new place for pinball repair info

#5 3 months ago

Br2 and c5 are definitely connected to each other. I'll take some measurements tomorrow and report back any other suggestions?

#6 3 months ago

LM323 is pretty hard to blow. They have current/power limiting and thermal shutdown.

Any chance you got some bad regulators? Maybe try the original LM323K you desoldered to begin with.

#7 3 months ago

I tried the original regulator and it tested bad out of circuit.
I have tested the positive lead on br2 and got 12.3 DC and nothing ac
I test these regulators before I put them in and they test fine. The led 4 on driver board lights for a few seconds then goes out

#8 3 months ago

How are you testing an LM323K out of circuit?

#9 3 months ago

With a meter on diode test
One probe on each leg of the regulator

#10 3 months ago

But the LM323K is not a transistor - it's an integrated circuit.

#11 3 months ago

I see what your saying but I'm still not getting 5 volts. What could it be?

#12 3 months ago
Quoted from ChrisHibler:

Are you sure that C5 has not had a through hole pulled and that it is still in circuit? Buzz between C5 and BR2 DC outputs.

Like Chris is saying, bad connections at any point between BR2 and C5 will give you major problems. The image below shows the topside circuit trace (Violet dashed line) and the layer transition point under C5.
pasted_image (resized).png

#13 3 months ago

Thanks for the pic
All the traces are fine in that area
Not sure where to look next

#14 3 months ago
Quoted from Pin_Guy:

Like Chris is saying, bad connections at any point between BR2 and C5 will give you major problems. The image below shows the topside circuit trace (Violet dashed line) and the layer transition point under C5.
[quoted image]

Nothing to add here, but nice diagram!

#15 3 months ago
Quoted from gameover1173:

All the traces are fine in that area

Dude. You're killing us. What leads you to conclude that "all traces are fine". Visual? That won't cut it. You have to buzz for continuity.

You are talking to a few folks that have a ton of experience. Please take this opportunity to follow the direction suggested and learn.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://ChrisHiblerPinball.com/contact
http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

#16 3 months ago

Dude
I have buzzed every trace to every bridge and cap with a meter. I have metered all the bridges and get between 5-7 on diode test
All the big caps are new as well.
I even used a known working board to verify the traces were correct
What else do I need to check

#17 3 months ago
Quoted from gameover1173:

Dude
I have buzzed every trace to every bridge and cap with a meter. I have metered all the bridges and get between 5-7 on diode test
All the big caps are new as well.
I even used a known working board to verify the traces were correct
What else do I need to check

Thank you for answering the question definitively.

If I had the board here, I would meter at various points to see where the voltage stopped.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.ChrisHiblerPinball.com/Contact
http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

#18 3 months ago

Exactly. If you have volts coming out of BR2, it goes to the 5v regulator, then comes out of the regulator as 5v. Besides traces, there are really only a hand full of parts if that. What volts do you measure DC into the regulator, and DC out at the regulator?

#19 3 months ago

Counterfeit LM323K?

#20 3 months ago
Quoted from barakandl:

Counterfeit LM323K?

...there are a LOT of those being sold...sad...
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://ChrisHiblerPinball.com/contact
http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

#21 3 months ago
Quoted from barakandl:

Counterfeit LM323K?

Quoted from ChrisHibler:

...there are a LOT of those being sold...sad...

There are, and many are of them are of poor quality ... I actually have mixed feeling on this subject as while I would love to purchase parts manufactured to original specs from whomever holds the mfg. rights, the facts are that many of these parts are only available as counterfeits coming out of China. Many times these are the only parts available and the way I see it is it's better to have a part with a high failure rate then no part at all. I spend more time that I'd like to admit searching for NOS parts from the '90's.

#22 3 months ago
Quoted from Pin_Guy:

There are, and many are of them are of poor quality ... I actually have mixed feeling on this subject as while I would love to purchase parts manufactured to original specs from whomever holds the mfg. rights, the facts are that many of these parts are only available as counterfeits coming out of China. ..

LM323K's were originally crated by National Semiconductor. Several companies jumped on the bandwagon and created their own versions. But one by one, they were discontinued.
National Semi is now owned by Texas Instruments. And now the sole surviving company to make LM323K's is Texas Instruments.
From TI - the LM323K is still an active part, they are still made and can be readily purchased. Downside - they cost approx $50 each.
That is why parts such as the PSU5V (forgot actual part number) is popular. Same footprint, much lower heat and much lower cost.

When ST Microelectronics put out a last time buy - I bought several cases of LM323K's. Unfortunately, I should have bought far more. 20/20 hindsight is a wonderful thing... I also should have bought a metric shitload of 7404's when TI was dumping them at 5 cents each.

#23 3 months ago
Quoted from gameover1173:

Got a fish tales here that has no 5 volts on the driver board Replaced all the bridges and big caps
All traces are good, all connectors are reflowed
On both boards any help would be great

what ever you do , don't do this. some people shouldn't own pinballs, but believe it or not , it works.now these pics are off to another thread , something like 'pinball horror pics'

IMG_0629 (resized).JPGIMG_0631 (resized).JPGIMG_0632 (resized).JPG
#24 3 months ago

There was no voltage coming out of the regulator so I changed it and so I'm thinking crappy regulator because it blew.
This is a buddy's game so I gave it back to him and told him to change it out again

#25 3 months ago

the LM323K you can buy 10pcs of for $30 shipped are probably going to be low quality fakes.

The Chinese make the 7805V part in mass amounts. Someone is probably sticking that 1amp die inside the metal can and calling it a 3a part. Goes into thermal shutdown or whatever near instantly in a high current situation.

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