(Topic ID: 292856)

fish tales blowing main fuse.

By jmppts

3 years ago


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  • Latest reply 3 years ago by jmppts
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#1 3 years ago

fish tales woes

original issue was no power up (which I found to be caused by the main harness from the transformer heating up and melting together shorting every wire in the harness as well as damaging the transformer and PDB (I believe part of this was caused by the 10 amp fuse I found in the main fuse block when I started troubleshooting as well as the large number of upgrades the customer had added including replacing the DMD with an LCD upgrade)). PDB was sent to anther company for repairs including new pin headers for J102 and J103, and replacing C2,C4, and C5 however once the customer received it back he just plugged it back into the machine the shorted harness caused more problems. which is when I was called.

I have repaired the PCB traces that were burnt out.

I have done a wire for wire replacement for the entire harness from the transformer to the PCBs

I have replaced the trash transformer

I also replaced BR2 as most of the traces under it were burnt out and I didn't want to have to worry about it after repairing the traces.

I also replaced a blown C11 as well as Q1 and R260 all were visibly blown figured Id change out C6 and C7 while I was swapping C11 as well.

the main fuse blows the moment I plug in J102 to the PDB. I haven not checked the other plugs yet as I have a fixed amount of 8 amp fuses right now.

the thermistor in line with the EMF and the main fuse looks ok. (I only mention this as when I search for this issue, this comes up as an issue in a few threads)

I'm honestly at a lost now as to why I'm still blowing the main fuse and why it would do this with just J102 plugged in. the obvious reason would be a short on the PDB, but I can not find any signs of one.

any ideas where I should start looking next would be greatly appreciated.

#2 3 years ago

A shorted bridge rectifier ?I would check them since they all share the same ground line

#3 3 years ago

Is this a 220v reimport that was converted to 110v, but plugged in to 220v by the customer because the 220v label is still on the game?

#4 3 years ago

There shouldn't be any reason why the transformer and its wiring harness gets melted, unless something is overfused or the fuses are bypassed. The fuses are supposed to protect the transformer.

Are you sure every fuse is the correct value and there isn't any miswiring?

#5 3 years ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:Is this a 220v reimport that was converted to 110v, but plugged in to 220v by the customer because the 220v label is still on the game?

Nah it clearly labeled 110v (well 115v but obviously not 220) and he just had it plugged into a normal 110 outlet in the house.

Quoted from pintime:

A shorted bridge rectifier ?I would check them since they all share the same ground line

Glad I bought extra. I'll look at the others

#6 3 years ago
Quoted from kevmad:

There shouldn't be any reason why the transformer and its wiring harness gets melted, unless something is overfused or the fuses are bypassed. The fuses are supposed to protect the transformer.
Are you sure every fuse is the correct value and there isn't any miswiring?

Agreed it shouldn't have happened but it did have a 10 amp in the main when I got it and it's supposed to be an 8 so now I have melted parts. All the fuses were checked when I found the wrong one in the main and it was the only one that was wrong it wasn't the only blown fuse though. I did a wire by wire swap to make sure I didn't cross anything when I built the new harness, so I'm confident that isn't an issue.

#7 3 years ago

Since you know it only blows the fuse with J102 connected, you only have to check 3 bridges, BR3 and BR4 on the PDB and BR1 on the Fliptronics board. Removing F111 and F112 on the PDB is also a good check to verify that you can plug in J102 and NOT blow a fuse.

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Good Luck.

#8 3 years ago

I had a Shadow blowing the line fuse and it turned out to be the bridge rectifier on the flip tropic board.
Obviously it did not have the damage done as the op has had.

#9 3 years ago
Quoted from Pin_Guy:

Since you know it only blows the fuse with J102 connected, you only have to check 3 bridges, BR3 and BR4 on the PDB and BR1 on the Fliptronics board. Removing F111 and F112 on the PDB is also a good check to verify that you can plug in J102 and NOT blow a fuse.
[quoted image]
Good Luck.

as suggested i checked the other bridges and BR4 was bad and has been replaced. unfortunately that did not stop it from blowing the main. I hadn't thought about pulling the fuses on the board but Ill give it a try and see what happens.

I don't have the fliptronics board plugged in yet but I'll check the bridge on it to make sure it doesn't cause a problem down the road.

#10 3 years ago

ok I lied i did have J901 on the fliptronics board plugged in. unplugged it and it did stop blowing the main. so as suggested I checked BR1 but its testing good. Im down to my last 3 8 amp fuses now, so I cant check all the other plugs one by one.

#11 3 years ago

Time to invest in some of those circuit breakers that fit right into the fuse holders. One of the best investments I ever made.

#12 3 years ago
Quoted from jmppts:

ok I lied i did have J901 on the fliptronics board plugged in. unplugged it and it did stop blowing the main. so as suggested I checked BR1 but its testing good. Im down to my last 3 8 amp fuses now, so I cant check all the other plugs one by one.

Great, you know its not the PDB now, you shouldn't need to blow any fuses to fix this. Just Measure the resistance between J901 pins 1 and 5 on the fliptronics board with J901 disconnected, if the resistance is low you have a short somewhere on the board or playfield (Normal resistance should be around 6M ohms). The fuses on the board should protect against playfield shorts, but for all I know someone may have soldered a wire across the fuse holder on the bottom of the board to make the machine work rather than try and find out what was blowing the fuse.

I would also make sure none of the fuses on the fliptronics board are over amped; in fact I would either remove them all, or just simply remove J907 to isolate the fliptronics board from the playfield; you can then compare the J901-1 to J901-5 resistance on the board between having it connected to the playfield vs. removed from the playfield and if all is good the measurement shouldn't change. If you get a high resistance with either the fuses removed or J907 disconnected, reconnect J901 then power on the machine and check for 50V at the now empty fuse holders.

#13 3 years ago

I am working on a Flintstones for a customer who said it was blowing F113 on the solenoid driver board. He says it blows and he replaced it and still blows but was unsure whether he used the correct fuse. I'll try to shorten my process for brevity and not bore everyone. I'll make a future post with details.

It's an import with a thermistor but no varistor in the power box. I put in correct fuses everywhere I could on all boards. I powered on with backbox open and sparks shot out between BR3 and BR4. Quickly powered off. Replaced BR3 and BR4. C5 and C11 tested good. Looked in power box and dark marks beside thermistor but was not shorted.

Power on and after 3 seconds C11 bursts, quickly power off. Replace C5 and C11, and BR1 and BR2, C6 and C7 just to stop swapping board so many times. Remove J101 and all other power in and out of driver board. No replacement thermistor on hand so I jumper it (not recommended but low on 8 amp fuses) . I remove F11 thru F114.

I connect only J102 to driver board, power on and no sparks but after 2 or 3 seconds xformer starts to hum so I turned off. Checked a hundred things, get frustrated read more guides, get ready to throw in the towel. I almost always look for mistakes caused by someone else but supposedly machine worked at one time. Owner knows little about repairs.

Had coin door open the whole time so expect 20 and 50 volts to be disabled by the interlock. Wires on interlock are dirty, hard to see colors. Look close and wires that should be on common and NO are on NC and common. Look closer and wires are crossed. White/red to black/yellow, same on other side of switch !

Replaced wires to match correctly, powered on and no hum. Put everything back together with all fuses and back to normal except other issues with dmd driver. How the hell this machine ever worked this way I will never know.

#14 3 years ago
Quoted from Pin_Guy:

Great, you know its not the PDB now, you shouldn't need to blow any fuses to fix this. Just Measure the resistance between J901 pins 1 and 5 on the fliptronics board with J901 disconnected, if the resistance is low you have a short somewhere on the board or playfield (Normal resistance should be around 6M ohms). The fuses on the board should protect against playfield shorts, but for all I know someone may have soldered a wire across the fuse holder on the bottom of the board to make the machine work rather than try and find out what was blowing the fuse.
I would also make sure none of the fuses on the fliptronics board are over amped; in fact I would either remove them all, or just simply remove J907 to isolate the fliptronics board from the playfield; you can then compare the J901-1 to J901-5 resistance on the board between having it connected to the playfield vs. removed from the playfield and if all is good the measurement shouldn't change. If you get a high resistance with either the fuses removed or J907 disconnected, reconnect J901 then power on the machine and check for 50V at the now empty fuse holders.

Not sure what I did but I'm back to blowing the main 8amp with just j103 and j102 plugged in on pdb. I pulled f111 thru f114 with the same results.

#15 3 years ago
Quoted from jmppts:

Not sure what I did but I'm back to blowing the main 8amp with just j103 and j102 plugged in on pdb. I pulled f111 thru f114 with the same results.

What exactly are you connecting to J103 ? J103 is just a ground connection. By default Fish Tales doesn't have anything connected to J103. If you have a LED OCD then you might have connected the ground there, or maybe another accessory..

Try booting the game with just J102 connected and tell us if the main fuse makes it.

#16 3 years ago
Quoted from Roamin:

What exactly are you connecting to J103 ? J103 is just a ground connection. By default Fish Tales doesn't have anything connected to J103. If you have a LED OCD then you might have connected the ground there, or maybe another accessory..
Try booting the game with just J102 connected and tell us if the main fuse makes it.

J103 was ran to the blue/white from the transformer when I got it and I wired it back up the same way when I built the new harness.

As requested I unplugged j103 and just have j102 plugged In with all 4 fuses removed and it is still blowing the main 8amp.

#17 3 years ago

Have you measured the AC voltage on J102 with it removed from the board ? Does the pin have the interlock switch connected? What is the voltage on J102 ?

#18 3 years ago

I think you should maybe post pictures of your connectors and their wiring. You said, the blue/white wire was connected to J103 , but the blue/white wire should be in the same connector as the red wires , in J101.

The other close wires are white-blue , on a 5 pin connector (J103 is 4 pins) and those are white-blue and they go to the fliptronic board.

You should pull up the manual and confirm all the wires are in the correct place , since you changed the transformer and the connectors.

Here's the pinout for J101 to J105 (J105 and J104 are identical, so they can be interchanged) and also the voltages you should read from the transformer. The colors of the pins correspond to the colors of the wires. Between both reds you should read 10 VAC (AC , wavy line on your meter). Red/white wires you will read 17.3 VAC , white wires 86VAC , black/yellow 56VAC, white green 12.7VAC, blue white 14.7VAC . The grey, grey/white and grey/green are center tapped, which means you will read 40VAC between grey and grey/green and 20VAC between either grey and grey/white or grey/green and grey/white.

Is the fuse blowing without anything connected to the board? If it only blows when J102 is connected , and the pinout is correct, stop blowing fuses and measure continuity between the pins on J101. Between pin 1 and 2 ? pins 4 or 5 and pins 6 or 7 ? Any continuity between any of those pins and the ground ?

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#19 3 years ago
Quoted from Roamin:

I think you should maybe post pictures of your connectors and their wiring. You said, the blue/white wire was connected to J103 , but the blue/white wire should be in the same connector as the red wires , in J101.

The other close wires are white-blue , on a 5 pin connector (J103 is 4 pins) and those are white-blue and they go to the fliptronic board.

J103 is also unkeyed, you should not be able to plug anything into this connector properly, can you confirm the connector number on this?

#20 3 years ago
Quoted from Roamin:

I think you should maybe post pictures of your connectors and their wiring. You said, the blue/white wire was connected to J103 , but the blue/white wire should be in the same connector as the red wires , in J101.
The other close wires are white-blue , on a 5 pin connector (J103 is 4 pins) and those are white-blue and they go to the fliptronic board.
You should pull up the manual and confirm all the wires are in the correct place , since you changed the transformer and the connectors.
Here's the pinout for J101 to J105 (J105 and J104 are identical, so they can be interchanged) and also the voltages you should read from the transformer. The colors of the pins correspond to the colors of the wires. Between both reds you should read 10 VAC (AC , wavy line on your meter). Red/white wires you will read 17.3 VAC , white wires 86VAC , black/yellow 56VAC, white green 12.7VAC, blue white 14.7VAC . The grey, grey/white and grey/green are center tapped, which means you will read 40VAC between grey and grey/green and 20VAC between either grey and grey/white or grey/green and grey/white.
Is the fuse blowing without anything connected to the board? If it only blows when J102 is connected , and the pinout is correct, stop blowing fuses and measure continuity between the pins on J101. Between pin 1 and 2 ? pins 4 or 5 and pins 6 or 7 ? Any continuity between any of those pins and the ground ?[quoted image][quoted image]

after you said J103 shouldn't have anything connected to it I went back the the schematic and that turned out to be the problem. I'm at fault here I should have checked it against the diagram instead of assuming it was right when I got it. It does explain how he burnt out the ground pins on the PDB though. I double checked all the wires from the transformer against the schematics after that and the rest are ok. I just powered it up with all power, and then power and playfield plugged in, and I'm finally booting up into the game. only thing left is to wire the LCD upgrade correctly and I should be right as rain.

Thanks again for the help and again My apologies for not checking the specs first and wasting everyones time.

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