(Topic ID: 68265)

First Project - Williams Phoenix

By skywelker

10 years ago


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  • 53 posts
  • 14 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 10 years ago by skywelker
  • Topic is favorited by 3 Pinsiders

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There are 53 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.
#1 10 years ago

Thanks to some help from this forum I was recently able to buy my first project, and boy oh boy is it a project. I picked up a Phoenix. I know it's not the most popular game so not as much pressure to make it perfect. It came with 3 playfields, 2 sets of plastics, new cabinet spray paint, extra boards, and much much much more. I figured I should start a thread documenting the project as I really have no idea what the heck I am doing and I will eventually have many questions! So my basic tentative plan is as follows:

1) Clean and wax NOS playfield
2) Clean and install best looking mechanical components
3) Clean and install best looking plastics
4) Attempt to get the machine to play
5) Repair until it plays 100%
6) Buy stencils
7) Paint cabinet

The only thing I have found so far that I might be missing is the spinner but I still have one m]box of parts to go through. Here are a few pictures:

20131027_183535.jpg20131027_183535.jpg 20131027_183550.jpg20131027_183550.jpg 20131027_184129.jpg20131027_184129.jpg
#2 10 years ago

I will be following this. Of course. Good luck!

#3 10 years ago

Me too. I have one I'm currently restoring the playfield for. When you get done can I buy some of your spare plastics?

#4 10 years ago
Quoted from singlebanana:

I will be following this. Of course. Good luck!

Haha yes obviously. Thanks!

Quoted from dothedoo:

Me too. I have one I'm currently restoring the playfield for. When you get done can I buy some of your spare plastics?

Sure, not a problem, although it might be a while depending on how well this progresses. I cleaned some of the platics up last night with simple green and novus 2 and they look really good, however some of them do have cracks.

#5 10 years ago

This is a fun game. I actually just LED'd the whole pin over the weekend and it looks awesome! Good luck!!!

#6 10 years ago

I owned the game and its a lot of fun, nice nos pf...

#7 10 years ago

Thanks guys. I wondered what it would look like with LEDs, glad to hear it looks good. Do you have any pics?

#8 10 years ago

Ill get you some photos...all. I have is my blackberry to take photos and they don't turn out great but I have had a new iphone 5S sitting here for 3 weeks that I need to setup.. I guess I know what ill take first photos of... give me a few days... I'm also still deciding if I like the insert colors I chose for playfield...dan

#9 10 years ago

Did you have any extra backbox electronics?? I am saving a disco fever and am missing whole backbox. Just found one but its just backbox... have extra boards but no wire harness, or transformer etc...

#10 10 years ago
Quoted from danczaz:

Did you have any extra backbox electronics?? I am saving a disco fever and am missing whole backbox. Just found one but its just backbox... have extra boards but no wire harness, or transformer etc...

I don't think I have anything other than some extra boards, but then again they might be tangled up in there and I don't even realize it. I'll let you know if I have any left over at the end.

#11 10 years ago

Made a (very) little bit of progress this week. I have attached the wood rails and the GI lighting to the NOS playfield. Doesn't look as good as factory but I tested it out as best I could and it seems like everything should work.

A couple quick questions if any one knows:

-Should I install mylar around the pop bumpers? It came with some circular decals but I wasn't sure if I really needed them for home use.

-Where can I get a spinner target assembly? I've seen them for other system 4 games but didn't know if there was a generic replacement I could use.

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#12 10 years ago

System 3-7 games were known for their super crappy clear coats, so if you are not clearing the playfield before installation, then yes, I would use the Mylar.

#13 10 years ago

Hey Skywelker,

I am also working on a project Phoenix that I hope to retheme, the paint on my backglass is almost non existent.
When you get a chance could you take a picture of the back of your backglass, so I know where all the text/lights align, you know: ball-in-play, tilt, shoot again, game over, match, etc...

Thanks,
Bowman9

#14 10 years ago

Wow, that's not one I would have expected to ever see

#15 10 years ago

To be quite honesty, before you really bolt a lot to that NOS playfield, have you considered contacting CPR to see if they may be interested? I know they likely won't want to do Phoenix any time soon, but it's also likely they won't get another chance at seeing an NOS field either

-Hans

#16 10 years ago
Quoted from HHaase:

To be quite honesty, before you really bolt a lot to that NOS playfield, have you considered contacting CPR to see if they may be interested? I know they likely won't want to do Phoenix any time soon, but it's also likely they won't get another chance at seeing an NOS field either
-Hans

Didn't even think about that. Good call, I'm shooting them an email now.

Quoted from Bowman9:

Hey Skywelker,
I am also working on a project Phoenix that I hope to retheme, the paint on my backglass is almost non existent.
When you get a chance could you take a picture of the back of your backglass, so I know where all the text/lights align, you know: ball-in-play, tilt, shoot again, game over, match, etc...
Thanks,
Bowman9

Like this? Sorry for the quality, took it with my phone.

20131102_214641.jpg20131102_214641.jpg
#17 10 years ago

Perfect!
Thanks for the help.

1 week later
#18 10 years ago

Got a little more time in the past couple of days to work on Phoenix. I was able to power it up late last night (couldn't resist) to see where I stand.

The good:
-The game plays!

The bad:
-No sound, although sometimes it would play some kind of siren noise when powered on
-After the first ball drains a credit is added and the game ends
-Certain scoring switches add credits and end game
-Right flipper is weak and also scores points and spots bonus lights when the button is pressed
-When I run the on board diagnostics the LED lights indicate a RAM failure

I think there were more problems but I can't remember them all right now. I haven't had any chance to check for shorts yet but I did check for loose connectors before I powered up. I also checked all the fuses and installed new batteries. I have no idea if any of these problems are related to each other but I figure I will just try and knock them out one at a time. I'll post some better pics later but here is one so far:

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#19 10 years ago

Damn man, looks very good. Have you repinned the connectors on the sound board? Sometimes that's all it takes to fix the sound, but with these other issues it might be something else. Looking forward to more updates.

#20 10 years ago
Quoted from singlebanana:

Damn man, looks very good. Have you repinned the connectors on the sound board? Sometimes that's all it takes to fix the sound, but with these other issues it might be something else. Looking forward to more updates.

I have not tried that yet, I merely wiggled the connectors a little when I was first installing, but that was before I even knew I had a problem. I was going to try sanding the pins on the board a bit to clean them up as well. Thanks for the tip!

#21 10 years ago

I tried messing with the connectors on the sound board last night. After firing it up nothing had changed, then all of a sudden the sound came on and the problem with credits posting when certain switches were hit disappeared! I was also able to fix the weak flipper problem by cleaning the normally closed switch that puts the coil into it's 'second stage'. I am still having problems with points being scored randomly when I press the flipper buttons but things are looking much better! I'm thinking of just going through and doing a good cleaning on all of the switch contacts to see if that helps. I also need to check and see if the RAM failure on the diagnostics has fixed itself somehow as well.

#22 10 years ago

Got the plastics installed and played quite a few games this weekend. Issues that still need to be addressed:

-Buy and install spinning target
-One of the single drop targets keeps falling down on it's own, I think it just needs a mechanical adjustment
-The banks of drop targets don't usually score the bonus for completing the entire bank, I think the contacts on the boards and horseshoe need to be cleaned.

Some more pics of current condition:

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#23 10 years ago

Looks great, I miss my Phoenix after seeing yours...

#24 10 years ago

Looks awesome man! So glad that you put this one back together.

A few ideas on the drop that keeps falling. Could be spring tension too tight or one of the edges on the target is worn. Can't remember if those drops have edges that help hold them up or not. Also, it may just need an adjustment and not be reseting fully.

#25 10 years ago

Thanks guys, this is definitely a fun game! I'll try and look into the drop targets tonight.

One more question, anyone know how to stop this from happening? I tried lowering the peg but the flipper would sometimes get stuck on it. Maybe I should shorten the wire guides?

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#26 10 years ago

Pretty sure that wire guide is suppose to be lowered. Looks like your right flipper has the pin that the flipper sets on. Is this pin present on the other side? That pin may keep the ball from going back there.

#27 10 years ago

Yes the pin is on both sides. The ball gets stuck sitting on the wire guide by the pin. The flipper is not strong enough to knock it off when it comes down. I don't have the glass on yet but I have noticed that it happens quite often so it would be an issue down the line. Lowering the wire guide seems like the way to go but it will require either trimming it or drilling deeper holes in the playfield so I thought I should ask first. Thanks!

#28 10 years ago

The pin is just for the initial flipper alignment, you remove them once the flippers are tightened down.

Lower the wire guides and you should be all set.

#29 10 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

The pin is just for the initial flipper alignment, you remove them once the flippers are tightened down.
Lower the wire guides and you should be all set.

Awesome, thank you Vid!

#30 10 years ago

Well tonight ended up being incredibly frustrating! I fixed the flippers per Vid's instructions. I then got the drop target working with singlabanana directing me to the spring tension. Then after turning the machine back on most of my previous problems all showed back up. Random credits posting, weird scoring, a coil stuck on, and games ending when a certain switch was hit. I checked all the wiring I could see and resoldered anything that looked like it might have even been close to being loose. Nothing seemed to work so i checked voltages on the power supply board.

Here were the results:
F1 (high voltage) readings were 95VAC or 92VAC with a load
F2 (28VDC Solenoids) readings were 38VDC or 34VDC with a load
F3 (18VDC lamps) readings were 21VDC or 18VDC with a load
F5 (5VDC) readings were 13VDC or 11VDC with a load

EDIT: It was pointed out to me that the 5VDC reading I was taking was unregulated. I'm going to try after the regulator this afternoon and see if I get the correct voltage.

The capacitors seemed to test OK but I didn't go much further than that. Unfortunately I do not have an extra power board to try.

#31 10 years ago

Best sure to post these results in a new thread in the tech help section of the forums. You won't get as many replies under this topic. People will help you sort through it as long as you keep providing updates. Good luck!

#33 10 years ago

Wow that is full of good information. I can't believe I didn't see it considering I used Vid's guides to rebuild my pop bumpers and flippers. Thanks!

I verified my 5VDC regulated voltage is reading correctly and reflowed the solder on all my power supply pcb joints. I also checked the bridge rectifiers. Still no luck so I went ahead and ordered a bunch of the components recommended in the guide.

#34 10 years ago

Quick update: I removed the CPU and driver boards last night and reflowed the solder on all the connector pins (they looked pretty bad, lots of cold solder cracks). I also reseated all the chips that were in the dreaded Scanbe sockets. After reassembling everything the machine works really well, only a few minor scoring issues. Once the supplies come in I'm going to do Vid's bulletproofing and hopefully that will take care of most everything. In the meantime I'm getting as many games in as I can!

#35 10 years ago

Good to hear

#36 10 years ago

Nice work man.

#37 10 years ago
Quoted from skywelker:

Thanks to some help from this forum I was recently able to buy my first project, and boy oh boy is it a project. I picked up a Phoenix. I know it's not the most popular game so not as much pressure to make it perfect. It came with 3 playfields, 2 sets of plastics, new cabinet spray paint, extra boards, and much much much more. I figured I should start a thread documenting the project as I really have no idea what the heck I am doing and I will eventually have many questions! So my basic tentative plan is as follows:
1) Clean and wax NOS playfield
2) Clean and install best looking mechanical components
3) Clean and install best looking plastics
4) Attempt to get the machine to play
5) Repair until it plays 100%
6) Buy stencils
7) Paint cabinet
The only thing I have found so far that I might be missing is the spinner but I still have one m]box of parts to go through. Here are a few pictures:

20131027_183535.jpg 4 MB

20131027_183550.jpg 3 MB

20131027_184129.jpg 4 MB

Looks great. Nice to find an nos field. I just picked up my second Phoenix this year.

#38 10 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

The pin is just for the initial flipper alignment, you remove them once the flippers are tightened down.
Lower the wire guides and you should be all set.

I thought they were also so you couldn't bang back, or the ball just doing that on its own after it outlane drains

#39 10 years ago
Quoted from shacklersrevenge:

I thought they were also so you couldn't bang back, or the ball just doing that on its own after it outlane drains

The wire guides do that, the alignment pins are only used when servicing flippers.

#41 10 years ago
Quoted from shacklersrevenge:

ahh, right right, yeah. Got confused for a sec

No problem, we all do that.

#42 10 years ago

Ran into Singlebanana yesterday and I thought I would check in with you to see if you needed anything on putting your game together- but you're totally on top of it already. I'm very impressed.

Sys 3-7 drops: I have rebuilt a lot of those and have some parts if your drop's latch shelf is totally trashed. I can also take a look with you on the intermittent problem if you get stuck.

Consider getting a rubber on that flipper - they're easy to break without a rubber installed.

1 week later
#43 10 years ago
Quoted from TopJimmyCooks:

Ran into Singlebanana yesterday and I thought I would check in with you to see if you needed anything on putting your game together- but you're totally on top of it already. I'm very impressed.
Sys 3-7 drops: I have rebuilt a lot of those and have some parts if your drop's latch shelf is totally trashed. I can also take a look with you on the intermittent problem if you get stuck.
Consider getting a rubber on that flipper - they're easy to break without a rubber installed.

Sorry I was out of town last week and didn't get back to you. Thanks for the offer on help, I'm going to do the bulletproofing method Vid provided and I'll let you know how it's working after that. Either way you're welcome to check it out at that point.

Also, I put new rubbers on the flippers. For some reason the kit that came with it only had 1, so I ordered a pair and changed them out. Good to know about them breaking though. Thanks again David!

#44 10 years ago

Damn, wish I would have know. I have tons of black and red flipper rubbers. I would have sent you a few for free.

#45 10 years ago
Quoted from singlebanana:

Damn, wish I would have know. I have tons of black and red flipper rubbers. I would have sent you a few for free.

No worries Rich, they were only a couple bucks shipped. Thanks though!

#46 10 years ago

Those rubber kits are terrible and always have wrong sizes or are short a piece or two. I still get them sometimes but I also keep a selection on hand to supplement them. If you need something local, especially flippers and post rubbers, coil sleeves, light bulbs, give me a ring.

#47 10 years ago
Quoted from TopJimmyCooks:

Those rubber kits are terrible and always have wrong sizes or are short a piece or two. I still get them sometimes but I also keep a selection on hand to supplement them. If you need something local, especially flippers and post rubbers, coil sleeves, light bulbs, give me a ring.

Thanks David! Good to know, I really appreciate it as those shipping charges can add up quick (although it's usually the waiting that bothers me more!).

2 months later
#48 10 years ago

Been way too long since I update this! I put new caps and diodes on the power board. I also replaced the 40 pin connector and beefed up the resistors on the driver board per vid's bulletproofing guide.

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#49 10 years ago

Big thanks to pinsiders singlebanana and tamoore for hooking me up with a spinner and assembly. Just need to get the right decal for it and it will be perfect.

Also huge thanks to topjimmycooks for coming over and helping me get it installed and spinning perfectly. He also took the time to tweak some switches so the game is playing awesome! He was nice enough to point out that if me flipper plungers, coil sleeves, and EOS switches were replaced I would see a world of difference. Boy was he right, my high score went from 457K to 711K on my first game!

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#50 10 years ago

Looks awesome man! I'm sure you could make your own decal for that spinner on some sticker paper, since it is so simple. Just make sure you laminate it so that it won't wear or tear.

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