First Playfield Swap - Medusa

(Topic ID: 214737)

First Playfield Swap - Medusa


By StratDoc

4 months ago



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  • 196 posts
  • 12 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 44 days ago by StratDoc
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There are 196 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 4.
#1 4 months ago

I probably should have picked a less complicated pin for my first swap, but picked up a really nice Medusa and CPR playfield. I have completed the swap and plugged everything back up miraculously nothing smoked. I installed LED bulbs and am using the siegecraft adapters. BG lamps all work properly, some lamps on the pf are out and the controlled lamps on the pf flicker but not the controlled lamps on the BG do not.

Several things are not working properly. Most notable is the expanded SDB which constantly fires in attract mode. With a game start the rear drop targets will not reset. The top right round target sets of the bottom right sling and bottom right thumper. Sometimes a top drop target will reset the right drop targets. The four right targets seem to be working correctly.

I am in way over my head with this one, but learning as I go.

#2 4 months ago

Have you connected the siegcraft boards to the controlled power lamp braid on the BG lamp panel?
That power wire is daisy chained between the siegcraft boards and it sounds like there's a broken connection in the daisy chain.

BTW, the Solenoid Expander Board is controlled by a feature lamp so may explain why it's misbehaving.

#3 4 months ago

Yes. I connected the siegecraft board to the controlled lamp braid on the BG lamp panel. I am only showing 2.56vdc on the braid. Shouldn’t it be 5vdc? Could that be the problem?

#4 4 months ago
Quoted from StratDoc:

I am only showing 2.56vdc on the braid. Shouldn’t it be 5vdc? Could that be the problem?

2.56VDC is a problem, you should be seeing around 6.5VDC on the feature lamp power braid.

What voltage do you measure at TP1 (feature lamp power) on the rectifier board, and also on the braid wire at the feature lamps on the playfield?

Lastly, measure at the point on the three siegcraft boards as shown below - they should all measure the same voltage of 6.5VDC
.
Seigcraft_Power.jpg

#5 4 months ago

2.8vdc on the rectifier. .85 controlld lamps on pf. 2.6 in the siegecraft boards

#6 4 months ago

25 ohm resistor appears okay but only 2.56vac at f1 fuse.

#7 4 months ago

Sounds like your BR1 bridge rectifier on the rectifier board has an internal diode that's gone open circuit and it's only providing approx half voltage.

Just confirm that with your meter set to DC, black meter lead on the GND test point on the rectifier board and the red meter lead on the "+" point of the BR1 rectifier you're only getting 2.8V instead of 6.5V

Also measure the DC voltage on TP3 of the rectifier board (12-14VDC) just to make sure your meter is giving somewhat accurate readings
.

Quoted from StratDoc:

25 ohm resistor appears okay but only 2.56vac at f1 fuse.

If you measure AC with the black meter lead on ground, you will get an incorrect reading in this scenario. You need to measure across the two squiggly line marks "~" on BR1 to measure the transformer voltage at that bridge rectifier. i.e. one meter lead on one squiggly line point of BR1, the other meter lead on the other squiggly line point (opposite corner) of BR1.

#8 4 months ago

Replaced the rectifier. It was indeed bad. Now getting 7.46vdc at BG controller lamps. 7.46vdc at tp1 on rectifier.

#9 4 months ago

Cool.
Ok, so what's happened with the feature controlled lamp problems?

#10 4 months ago

So lamps no longer flicker and they are bright in attract mode. BG controlled lamps all work great. Many of the controlled lamps on the pf do not go off when a game starts - particularly the scoring lamps at the bottom middle of the pf. They all stay lit.

One challenge which was stupid on my part is that I never got the game fully working prior to doing the swap so I don't know which problems are swap related and which existed prior. I have had the pin for well over a year - got it back when you were helping me with the Paragon. Picked up the CRP cheap and decided to do the swap. All boards are original - MPU board boots fine, goes into attract mode but lots of issues now when a game is started. Lamps as I mention above, non-firing solenoids, switch issues, etc. What is your advice on how best to systematically begin working through the problems?

#11 4 months ago

Can you post pics of the problematic lamps? Knowing exactly which lamps are playing up will help map where the problem is. The solenoid expander is actually controlled by the lamp board so first thing is to get the lamps working properly.

#12 4 months ago

Yes, I can post some up after work this evening.

Quickly this morning I removed the F5 fuse since it is for GI and the scoring controlled lamps still came on. I measured voltage at the controlled lamps and it shows 6.6VAC - GI voltage - and a lower VDC voltage. With the F5 fuse pulled I am uncertain why I would show VAC voltage on the controlled lamps. The BG GI lamps went off with F5 fuse pulled.

#13 4 months ago

The feature lamps are powered by rectified but unregulated DC - i.e. the DC is not flat and is rippling in semi sine waves. When measuring AC on this type of supply rail, your meter will tell you how much ripple voltage there is.

The +5V power to the MPU board is regulated DC - i.e. the current is near flat line like a battery and should have no ripple so measuring AC on this type of supply rail should result in a near zero reading.

From the diagram below - the blue line is zero volts reference.
> The AC waveform is what power looks like out of the transformer and into Bridge rectifiers.
> The Rectified DC waveform is what power looks like on the output of bridge rectifiers.
> The Filtered (via capacitor) DC waveform is what happens when you add a large capacitor to a rectified DC supply rail - think of the 12VDC supply on these games due to the 11700uf capacitor at C23 on the SDB.
> The Regulated DC waveform is what the output of the +5V regulator on the large heatsink of the SDB looks like.
> The Semi rectified DC voltage is what was coming out of your faulty BR1 bridge rectifier - note half of the waveform is missing hence you'll measure about half voltage.
.

Voltage_waveformsA.PNG

#14 4 months ago

Good luck, and good advice about getting the game fully working before doing a playfield swap, I’m sure you’ll get it all working

#15 4 months ago

Here are pics with a game started. Most of the controlled lamps remain lit.

CBC94D7D-5A38-4C3B-BA1D-6ABE349B9728 (resized).jpeg

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#16 4 months ago

The lamps that are stuck on are all over the shop.

Is there any animation in any of the lamps during attract mode?

What happens if you remove all the siegcraft boards from the equation? Do the lamps still stay stuck on?

Have you got a logic probe?

#17 4 months ago

The same problem with or without the siegcraft boards. Only difference is the lamps flicker without the boards. I disconnected all lamp driver board connections and all controlled lamps were out so I guess I don't have a dead short to the lamps? I do have a logic probe.

#18 4 months ago

Ok, with the lamp board reconnected, hookup your logic probe and probe the following pins on the lamp board:
U1 pin 1 =
U1 pin 2 =
U1 pin 3 =
U1 pin 21 =
U1 Pin 22 =

U1 Pin 23 =
U2 Pin 23 =
U3 Pin 23 =
U4 Pin 23 =

These pins should all be pulsing. Any that your probe indicates are stuck high means you have a connector issue between the MPU board and the lamp board - most likely at the MPU side since the Aux lamp board is also affected with stuck on lamps.

#19 4 months ago

U1 pin 1 = no pulse
U1 pin 2 =pulsing
U1 pin 3 =pulsing
U1 pin 21 =pulsing
U1 Pin 22 =pulsing

U1 Pin 23 =pulsing
U2 Pin 23 =pulsing
U3 Pin 23 =pulsing
U4 Pin 23 =pulsing

One other issue, top left GI lights next to the ball hole kicker are out and get very hot. Can smell the heat and too hot to touch. I may have something miss-wired there.

#20 4 months ago
Quoted from StratDoc:

U1 pin 1 = no pulse

Follow this one back to the MPU board. It comes from MPU J1 pin 11 and it's the "Lamp Strobe #1" signal.
I would have expected that most of the lamps would have been flashing rather than just stuck on solid with this signal missing at the lamp board.
Anyway, to the very right of MPU J1 pin 11 is resistor R78. First probe the left leg of R78 which goes to J1 pin 11.
Then probe MPU J1 pin 11.

Quoted from StratDoc:

One other issue, top left GI lights next to the ball hole kicker are out and get very hot. Can smell the heat and too hot to touch. I may have something miss-wired there.

Don't burn yourself

#21 4 months ago

F3 fuse has blown twice this morning when starting a game so MPU is not booting. I think the fuse issue is related to the burn smell coming from GI lamps in the top left corner? I must have a short somewhere. I will try to get to that tonight and report back.

#22 3 months ago
Quoted from StratDoc:

F3 fuse has blown twice this morning when starting a game so MPU is not booting. I think the fuse issue is related to the burn smell coming from GI lamps in the top left corner? I must have a short somewhere. I will try to get to that tonight and report back.

The F3 fuse is for the 12V power supply rail to the SDB - that supply rail does not go to the playfield.
Have you repinned any of the connectors between the cabinet and the head? Maybe accidentally put a wire in the wrong position or plugged a connector into the wrong socket/location?

#23 3 months ago

Left side of R78 and J1 pin 11 both pulsing.

Blown fuse issue was logic probe 5 volt connector off sdb. Fixed.

#24 3 months ago
Quoted from StratDoc:

Left side of R78 and J1 pin 11 both pulsing.

The lamp strobe #1 signal goes from MPU J1 pin 11 to the Lamp board J4 pin 13. Check/reterminate the wire terminals at both of those connector locations.

#25 3 months ago

I reterminated the wire at both locations. I am showing a pulse at the connector for J4 13 so it is getting the signal from the mpu. I have not pulled the board yet to look at the trace between connector and U1 leg 1.

A quick edit to this post. I pulled a known working Alltek lamp driver board and installed it. The same problem persists with multiple controlled lamps staying lit when a game starts.

#26 3 months ago

Can you disconnect all three connectors fro the Auxiliary lamp driver board.
Does it change the behavior of the playfield lamps and if yes, which lamps?

Next, put the Bally lamp driver board back in.
With the machine still OFF connect a jumper wire to TP2 on the lamp driver board which is ground.
Connect the other end of the wire to pin 1 on either of U1, U2, U3 or U4 (the four chips have the same signal on pin 1) or an easier location on the same signal is the bottom leg of resistor R75 on the lamp board (R75 is top left corner area).
Does shorting this signal to ground change the behavior of the playfield lamps and if yes, which lamps?

#27 3 months ago

With the auxiliary lamp board disconnected the shooter lane lights - five rollovers and "ready", "aim", "fire" lamps are not lit. All other lamps appear to be the same.

Connecting a wire to ground at TP2 on the lamp driver board and touching pin 1 of U1, U2, U3, U4 does not affect the behavior of the lamps.

UPDATE

I have been rechecking the playfield wiring looking for shorts, etc. I found a solid blue wire not connected to a controlled lamp at the top of the playfield. Reconnected and now most lights seem to be working as they should except for a few that are out. Other strange things - neither side or top drop targets are resetting. The new leaf switches I installed on the slings don't work. On two of the slings I have an old switch - when it is activated the coil fires. Activating the new switch on the same sling and the coil does not fire - maybe something wired backwards?

#28 3 months ago
Quoted from StratDoc:

Connecting a wire to ground at TP2 on the lamp driver board and touching pin 1 of U1, U2, U3, U4 does not affect the behavior of the lamps.

In that case U1, U2, U3 and/or U4 on the lamp board may be faulty. Grounding pin 1 at these chips stops their ability to listen to the MPU board lamp select requests. In this state, most if not all of those stuck on lamps should have extinguished.

1. Are these lamps all stuck on from the moment you power on the machine or do they all come on once attract mode starts?

2. What voltage are you now measuring at the base of the lamp feature lamp sockets on the playfield, i.e. the power braid connecting to each controlled feature lamps.

3. Are any of those U1, U2, U3 and/or U4 hot to touch?

Jumper that Lamp Strobe #1 signal to ground again (i.e. hook up your jumper wire between TP2 and the lower leg of resistor R75 on the lamp driver board).
Grab your logic probe and probe the pins at U2 as highlighted in the diagram below:
Only *one* of those 16 pins is allowed to read high. They should otherwise all indicate low. If 2 or more of those 16 pins indicates high with your logic probe, that chip is likely faulty. You can do the same with the other 3 chips to test them. let us know the result.

Also try this if you have time: Remove the pin 7, 6, 5, and 4 wires from the J4 connector at the lamp board and leave them floating. NOTE, the lamp board connector pins are numbered upside down, i.e. pin 1 at the connectors is at the bottom and counts upward.
This should make all those stuck on lamps stay off (well at least the ones not driven by the Aux lamp board).

LDB_4514_Ouputs.jpg

#29 3 months ago

Quench,

I found a blue wire that was disconnected from the one of the controlled lights at the top of the playfield. I reconnected and that seems to have fixed the issue. Now the controlled lamps that were lit at game start do not light.

Now maybe I can trouble shoot some of the other problems. For example, I installed new leaf switches on some of the slings. Where both switches are new, the slings do not work. Where I have one old switch and new switch, the coil is activated by the old switch but not the new one. I wonder if I bought the wrong type of switch or have it wired incorrectly.

The top right sling when activated by the old leaf switch also fires the bottom right pop bumper.

The return out lane switches activate the extended solenoid driver.

#30 3 months ago
Quoted from StratDoc:

I found a blue wire that was disconnected from the one of the controlled lights at the top of the playfield. I reconnected and that seems to have fixed the issue. Now the controlled lamps that were lit at game start do not light.

Can you post a photo of this blue wire and lamp socket? I'm curious how it could have affected so many lamps.

Quoted from StratDoc:

I wonder if I bought the wrong type of switch or have it wired incorrectly.

Post some photos of the connections and new switches.

Quoted from StratDoc:

The top right sling when activated by the old leaf switch also fires the bottom right pop bumper.

Does this also happen when ALL drop targets are in the raised position, or only when certain drop targets are down like the rear #7 drop target (rightmost) and rear #2 drop target?

#31 3 months ago

Here is a picture of the wire. It is the top right light just below the bank targets that lights the arrow.

The switches I had wired incorrectly - I went back and looked at my photos and caught the mistake. Slings now work properly

Top right sling still activates the bottom right pop bumper. It does not seem to be affected by the position of the drop targets.

Other issues - the out land rollovers, the star rollovers in the shooter lane and the spinners with the - all make the top right zipper flipper coil buzz (I originally thought the rollovers were activating the solenoid board on the PF, but it is the zipper flipper coil that is buzzing) . The star rollovers on the main playfield do not register.

Progress, slowly but surely. I could have picked a less complicated pin for my first PF swap.

medusa (resized).jpg

#32 3 months ago
Quoted from StratDoc:

Here is a picture of the wire. It is the top right light just below the bank targets that lights the arrow.

Were both blue wires not connected or only one? Just trying to understand the logic in the stuck lamp symptom because it currently makes no sense.

Have you done the basic stuff and run solenoid test mode and switch test mode to see what anomalies you're getting?

#33 3 months ago

I haven't run test mode on the switches and solenoids.

Only one blue wire was not connected. It makes me wonder if something else is also going on. I will post up a picture of the PF at game start so you can see the lamps.

#34 3 months ago

Here is a picture of the pf with a game started. I have no idea why the blue wire affected the controlled lamps. I think it is the S.W illumination buss coming off the rectifier.

I ran the diagnostics and all coils fire appropriately except for 16 and 17 which just buzz. The switch test shows switch 30 as closed.

Other strange things:
1) Drop targets not resetting - odd because over the weekend they were okay - right targets reset at game start and top targets all dropped except for the center target.
2) Right and left round targets at top of pf cause the pf lights to go off and on
3) Leaf switch behind red drop targets causes the saucer eject to fire - this wasn't a problem a few days ago
4) top right sling still causes bottom right pop bumper to fire

pf (resized).jpg

#35 3 months ago
Quoted from StratDoc:

I ran the diagnostics and all coils fire appropriately except for 16 and 17 which just buzz.

Sounds like the zipper flipper mechanism might be stuck and the solenoids are struggling to move it. Check those solenoids manually to see if they can freely pull in.

Quoted from StratDoc:

The switch test shows switch 30 as closed.

Top middle back target. Is it stuck?

Quoted from StratDoc:

1) Drop targets not resetting

Is the solenoid expander working?

Quoted from StratDoc:

2) Right and left round targets at top of pf cause the pf lights to go off and on

I believe this is normal. From memory, my game does it too including the displays briefly going off and on.

Quoted from StratDoc:

3) Leaf switch behind red drop targets causes the saucer eject to fire

Sort out the stuck switch 30, then in switch test mode activate each switch starting from 48 and count downwards to switch 1. Note down if/when you get incorrect switch numbers showing.

Quoted from StratDoc:

4) top right sling still causes bottom right pop bumper to fire

If the top right slingshot and bottom right pop bumper activate independently and correctly in solenoid test mode, then this is likely a switch matrix issue.

#36 3 months ago

medusa is a PIA to do a swap on. Those staples in the side rails are horrible. Whoever thought that was a good idea at bally, needs a kick in the crotch.

#37 3 months ago

I am back working on the Medusa this weekend.

I pulled the of to checke out to adjust the back drop target switches - switch 30 was showing stuck. I found it almost impossible to adjust the switches without removing the pf.

Put the pf back, reconnected everything and now the MPU will not boot - quick flash followed by three flashes. If I disconnect J2 on the MPU board it boots fine.

I also swapped u10 and u11. There was no change. Game boots with J2 disconnected but not when connected.

#38 3 months ago

You've most likely shorted one of the switch strobe wires to ground or another strobe line.

Install the J2 connector on an angle so the bottom half is making contact but the top half isn't and see if the game boots. Then try the other way so the top half of the J2 connector is making contact but the bottom half isn't.
This will help narrow down the playfield switch wires to half that need to be checked.
But I suspect it will be one/two of the strobe switch wires on the playfield where you were making adjustments (the strobe switch wires are the first 5 wires coming from J2).

#39 3 months ago

Will not boot either way - top half connected bottom not, bottom connected top half not.

#40 3 months ago

The switch lines are fed to/from the U10 PIA chip on the MPU board. You've shorted something in the switch wires when adjusting the switches that's causing the U10 PIA ports to fail the power on test. You need to go over your switch work looking for shorted/pinched wires.

#41 3 months ago

Found it. Man this thing is a bear.

I have gone through each switch in diagnostic mode. The cabinet flipper switches do not register and switch 37 for lower pop bumper does not register. All other switches are in correct sequence and register.

When a game is started the following switches are acting crazy.
- switch 35 activates switch 39
-switch 18 activates switch 19
- switch 34 activates switch 36

- Switches 25 and 28 will register during diagnostic but will not register during game.
- Switch 31 will register in diagnostic but not register during a game.

#42 3 months ago

Swaps can go wrong. Sorry, but I would go over the playfield and check every switch one by one to make sure there are no shorts to lamp sockets, etc. Medusa has very tight space between switches and sockets. It’s a very heavy playfield so stuff can get squeezed when taking out or installing the playfield. Look close at everything in the back half of the playfield

#43 3 months ago
Quoted from CaptainNeo:

medusa is a PIA to do a swap on. Those staples in the side rails are horrible. Whoever thought that was a good idea at bally, needs a kick in the crotch.

To help line them back up, I pre-drill the rails while the staples/rails are still together

#44 3 months ago

Making a little progress.

I resolved the switch matrix issue with the bottom right sling firing the bottom right pop bumper.

I am still troubleshooting the right drop targets rebound switch and its accompanying other two rebound switches on the the same strobe which fire the saucer and sometimes the shield of the gods. They are all on strobe 2. I think I have the wiring reversed on one of the leaf switches on the PF but have gotten myself turnaround. Here are pictures of the three switches in question. Solder work is a little messy but clean and not grounded anywhere.

The first picture is the leaf switch behind the four drop targets.
IMG_3498 (resized).JPG
The second picture is the leaf switch just above the four drop targets.
IMG_3499 (resized).JPG
The third picture is the leaf switch at the toward the top of of PF.
IMG_3500 (resized).JPG

#45 3 months ago

Can't quite tell from the third picture but so long as the banded side of the diode is away from the grey-yellow wire, it should be ok.

The problem is that you might be seeing ghosting effects in the matrix.

Does the switch 18 rebound still play up in game mode when all drop targets are raised?
When all drop targets are raised and the ball is removed from the outhole, does switch test mode report "0" closed switches?

Strobe line 5 (orange-blue wire) is supposed to be connected to a resistor on the playfield. The resistor should have a grey-brown wire on the other leg. Do you remember installing this resistor on the playfield?

#46 3 months ago

With drop targets rasied switch 18 rebound scores but does not activate any other switches. All targets raised and all balls removed shows switch 39 closed - lower right pop bumper. It is not closed on visual inspection.

Manipulating the drop targets individually will also result activate the knocker. The four drops also do not reset.

Is this the resistor?image (resized).jpeg

#47 3 months ago
Quoted from StratDoc:

Is this the resistor?

Yep that looks like it

Quoted from StratDoc:

All targets raised and all balls removed shows switch 39 closed - lower right pop bumper. It is not closed on visual inspection.

Maybe the green capacitor on that lower right pop bumper switch is faulty/shorted. Clip one of the capacitor leads close to the switch lug and bend the capacitor away. See if that fixes the stuck switch 39.

#48 3 months ago

That solves the switch 39 problem.

To right sling will nt fire but activates bottom left sling when the four targets are down. Just noticed this problem.

I also tested some of the affected coils by touching a ground wire to the non banded side of the coil. When the four targets are down, the four target coil activates the top left flipper. If the four targets are up, ground wire to the four target coil activates the coil.

I feel like I have something miswired that is causing all the problems. Not sure where to begin to sort that out.

#49 3 months ago

Could a ground issue be causing all the problems?

If I start a game, I can activate some of the non-solenoid connected switches by touching my hand to the banded side of the diode while my other hand is also touching a metal part of the cabinet

#50 3 months ago

the first picture looks like a toddler soldered that diode. I'd redo that first and make sure you have nice connections. If there are other solder jobs that look like that, you might have splatter in places that is arching on you.

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