If the inserts are not too cupped you can just leave them as is. Maybe play the game once it's back together and see if it really is much of a problem. It might not effect game play a lot. You could redo them later if need be.
(Topic ID: 155412)
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Op-Pop-Pop
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Personally, I've found straight edges and touch to not be extraordinarily useful when trying to determine how badly inserts are cupped. I've had inserts that felt/looked cupped in a VERY minor way, but still affect ball travel, especially at slow speeds. You might just take a ball and roll it slowly over some of those inserts to get a feel of out it might be affected.
More luck! 
Quoted from RyanClaytor:Personally, I've found straight edges and touch to not be extraordinarily useful when trying to determine how badly inserts are cupped. I've had inserts that felt/looked cupped in a VERY minor way, but still affect ball travel, especially at slow speeds. You might just take a ball and roll it slowly over some of those inserts to get a feel of out it might be affected.
More luck!
Granted the pf is only at 5 degrees and I just set it there but... think I should probably look at fixing it while it's apart. only 4 inserts didn't do this
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Let's get ready to TUMBLE! well vibrate anyway. ok lame I know... But I came home to new toys.
This thing is a lot bigger than I expected so glad I sprung for this one. Loaded her up with some walnut bedding from the pet store and novus 3. Thanks for the tips on that pinside. All the reel parts are in there we'll see how they look after 24hrs.
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But not all is set and forget. I went at the PF some more with the ME. Bye bye black ball arch and white shooter lane. Hit the green section at the top just for grins. I think she'll be purtty when I'm done. Need to do more on the shooter lane but my test was successful. Only down side is all that dirt in the ball arch prevented the PF from darkening evenly so now I have a lighter line.... still better than it was and blends in. Also took off the black marks to the side. Need to remove the rest of the arch to get the last of it. On a side note should I fill the chips under the posts with wood filler to protect the PF from moisture?
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For comparison sake here was before.
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Until next time all
Cool, looking forward to how the tumbler works out. I need to get one.
Caution with the ME and alcohol. It's removing whatever was left of the lacquer. It'll get even dirtier faster with no clearcoat left. I'd consider at least clearing the shooter lane and arch where it's worn down to wood.
For those inserts someone here mentioned a kit of mylar circles of various diameters to stick on the inserts to build them up to playfield level. Forgot where to get them but something to consider.
Quoted from polyacanthus:Cool, looking forward to how the tumbler works out. I need to get one.
Caution with the ME and alcohol. It's removing whatever was left of the lacquer. It'll get even dirtier faster with no clearcoat left. I'd consider at least clearing the shooter lane and arch where it's worn down to wood.
For those inserts someone here mentioned a kit of mylar circles of various diameters to stick on the inserts to build them up to playfield level. Forgot where to get them but something to consider.
Noted. Still not 100% if I'll do a full clear or not but I'll be sure to protect the shooter lane and ball arch.
When you are done with ME and alcohol then polish with Novus 2. Buff with a clean micro fiber after polishing with Novus 2. Then apply carnuba wax and then buff again. If you do any clear I'd just do the shooter lane and arch....
Score reels are finally back together! I got a little obsessive about the brackets in the tumbler but wanted to continue making progress so I called it good for now. I wiped every part down after tumbling also. They all had a good coating of walnut dust. Not to mention having to pick out the head of every screw. I'm starting to learn what works well in a tumbler and what doesn't. I see why some say to just replace nuts and bolt if you do a full restore. tedious work getting all the walnut out of every groove. I used Novus 3 in the tumbler with the walnut as well. I've heard Flitz works better so maybe I'll try that next time.
Everything came out pretty well though.. heck of a lot better than it was going in.
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Still some of the black staining was too much for the tumbler to clear. I probably could have hit this with some GSB and let them go for another day but with the weekend here I wanted to progress. Plus a loving nudge from my wife "Don't those go inside the machine".... "So no one will see them"..... 
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Everything moves smooth as butter now. I cleaned all the coil sleeves as well. Here's some shots of before and after. Can't believe how well the springs turned out.
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reels_(resized).jpg
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Note to self don't try and assemble stuff with small parts at 1 am.... 
Luckily I did not have any missing or extra parts, yay! I'm still working on the play-field a little at a time. I'll move on to the last two steppers in the head next.
No work on the pins today. Took a family trip to The Arcade in Brighton. Had a blast!
I can't recommend this place enough to anyone in the area. $15 a head everything set on free play from noon to 11 pm. Sunday is family day only $10 2-8pm.
https://www.facebook.com/thearcadebrighton/info?tab=page_info
Nearly everything was up and running. Pins must rotate a bit since the info page on Pinside said they had a Pinbot sadly they did not. I'm dying to try this game. I did get to play at least one game on every pin.
It was my son's first time in an arcade (he'll be 5 next month) he was so mesmerized by everything. We spent more time trying game after game for him I only managed to snap a couple pictures. First time on pins for him as well, after the first couple hours he started to get a better idea. He was playing next to me and started yelling Daddy Daddy so I look over and he's all grins "look I caught the pinball in the flippa" Then he let the flipper down gave it a smack and sank it right in a ball lock! 
Proud Daddy moment 
He almost fell off his step stool in excitement lol
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Here's their line-up and my two cents worth. I haven't played much in the last 10-15 years and was my first time on most of these pins. So take it with a grain of salt. Plus I stink so that doesn't help either lol
Jurassic Park - Wife liked it a lot. I kept hitting the damn cellar holes over and over.... 
Star Trek: The Next Generation - Ryan I'm pretty sure this is the one I was trying to remember, it has two cannons on top of the slingshots. I'm 90% sure this is it, unless there is another game with something similar. I'm not a treky by any means but damn I love this pin.
Road Show - I liked it but found it pretty tough.
Demolition Man - Really enjoy this game but man I suck! Need to practice up in-case I get to go back to the Claytor pinball lair 
Unfortunately there were two balls stuck in the right sling shot, so every time a ball came down the right in-lane it got stuck. After 3-4 solenoid checks and continually hitting the flipper it would make it's way out.
Party Zone - Love the art, was fun to play but I had a hard time with it.
World Cup Soccer - Had fun but only held my attention for 2 games. Not a wish lister.
Star Wars Episode I - OK, only because it's Star Wars, I'm actually really sad I didn't enjoy this one more, kid loved it. Ball got stuck most times on the right in-lane roll over.
Dr. Dude - Some people don't but I loved this game! Kept going back to it all day. Wish list added!
Metallica - Love the art and enjoyed the game a good bit but liked a few others more. But this one was towards the top. Love the magnet features, and the drop target alley or what ever it's called.
AC/DC - Admittedly I'm a big AC/DC fan so the theme and music won me over before even touching it. The game play was great imo I've learned I'm a huge sucker for drop targets. I ever hit the lotto, I'll be getting one for sure.
Addams Family - what's not to love honestly! It's my wife's pipe dream pin too.
Kiss - Fun, only got to play once though.
Twilight Zone - Ok I get it now! This game is a blast!
Mustang - Looks great, loved the toys only played a game or two so I can't really say.,
Family Guy - Only got to play one game then went on the kid chase I'd like to try it again.
Ripley's - it was ok but didn't hook me. Like it better than the soccer one though.
24 - was surprisingly fun I'd like to play it again to get a better feel for it.
Iron Man (sadly was not working)
I know I know this is an EM thread and here I am talking about SS games... I'll get back to these marvels of engineering soon. They still hold my heart
Shanty Bay, ON
wow Zarkin your thread is so cool, it's like we are in a parallel universe, I'm a rookie, wife happy with the addiction (hobby), I've not a clue most of the time and everyday is another oh wow moment. what a fantastic knowledge base this website has, I signed up awhile ago but never really looked inside the pinside, now i'm hooked.
I've managed to acquire a few really rough games (I'm cheap) I'll put up pics of some of the more interesting fixes and failures I've found in only the few games I've touched, I can only imagine what the more experienced people here have found
A strong magnetic pickup tool is what's best for fishing all the small parts out of the tumbler. Get a wire "toothbrush" to clean the residue from screw head slots, etc. Looking great so far!
Quoted from jrpinball:A strong magnetic pickup tool is what's best for fishing all the small parts out of the tumbler. Get a wire "toothbrush" to clean the residue from screw head slots, etc. Looking great so far!
I agree -- get a small magnet tool at Harbor Freight or Home Depot and it's great for dragging through the walnut media to find all the tiny metal parts. Also, I find that tumbling for longer times (2-3 days) produces significantly better results than just 24 hours. Just my experience. I'm tumbling some stuff now as I get two games ready for the PNW Pinball Show here in June.
Zarklin I think this score reel could use your skills. Its from a Bally Hi-Lo Aces. It wasn't till I pulled it out to clean that I realized it needed more love than just a clean. The best fix isn't the nuts and bolts that hold the coil on the frame, or even the completely wrong coil, or the bent spring. Its is the time someone took to drill a hole in the broken pieces of the pawl so they could wire them together!
I just received a new (correct) coil and score drive pawl assembly from pbr. They are fast, still waiting for other stuff from marcos that was ordered much earlier.
Quoted from willbeEM:Zarklin I think this score reel could use your skills. Its from a Bally Hi-Lo Aces. It wasn't till I pulled it out to clean that I realized it needed more love than just a clean. The best fix isn't the nuts and bolts that hold the coil on the frame, or even the completely wrong coil, or the bent spring. Its is the time someone took to drill a hole in the broken pieces of the pawl so they could wire them together!
I just received a new (correct) coil and score drive pawl assembly from pbr. They are fast, still waiting for other stuff from marcos that was ordered much earlier.20160325_202947_(resized).jpg
Oh, my word!
Quoted from willbeEM:Zarklin I think this score reel could use your skills. Its from a Bally Hi-Lo Aces. It wasn't till I pulled it out to clean that I realized it needed more love than just a clean. The best fix isn't the nuts and bolts that hold the coil on the frame, or even the completely wrong coil, or the bent spring. Its is the time someone took to drill a hole in the broken pieces of the pawl so they could wire them together!
I just received a new (correct) coil and score drive pawl assembly from pbr. They are fast, still waiting for other stuff from marcos that was ordered much earlier.20160325_202947_(resized).jpg
All that's missing is duct tape!?! Guessing you'll find some in that machine somewhere 
Quoted from willbeEM:Zarklin I think this score reel could use your skills.
Nice. That was probably done on site one day with minimal tools and materials on hand and probably worked for a long time like that!
Yep I agree, excerpt from the operators notes
'It was a late night call from the owner of Main Street Pool hall, he said the damn game just stopped in the middle of the game and he had to refund the punk kid his quarter. When I showed up the next day thought it was a easy fix, the plug had come out from the wall, slam switch didn't work before they beat the hell out to the hi-lo. Plugged it in, and tried a start, damn no go. Darn machine is right against the wall and hopefully my flashlight works. Found the coil in the first player hundred reel had come loose and shorted out and broke the pawl. Replaced it with a old williams coil and drilled out the pawl, taped up the Ten point reel coil to keep it from shorting against the new coil. Should work until i get more parts. Good it does, its Miller time!
Well been a few days but took a break from cleaning out my basement and gave some attention to the pin. Remember these?
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Turns out they are in-fact driven in. Grabbed the pliers and a rag.... Fail... rag slipped
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So off to the punch and hammer I went. Even after running a razor blade at the base to try and alleviate any of the pf being stuck to the rust..... Things just got a bit more involved. SOB!
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So looks like this pf is going to get a full effort. Guess no better time than the present to learn how to use wood-filler and an air brush
Bit of a kidney punch for me, but I had my doubts of this working out. I did try to clean up the posts while they where installed but wasn't making much difference.
Debating if I should even bother trying to save these posts. Can't find a direct replacement though. The two options I found are much taller than the originals. The stock posts are 1 1/16" over all.
http://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/02-4445
http://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/530-5004-01
Not to mention what I found when I got the rest of the ball arch off. Top layer is separating and has a split going down the PF. While I know this is completely out of the play area I'd like to do what I can to prevent it from going further.
20160413_224526_(resized).jpg20160413_224545_(resized).jpg
Believe my best option at this point is to strip it down completely (all switches etc off) fill, touch up and clear.
Needless to say the PF may be going to bed for awhile. I'll continue to work on the internals though. Score reels still don't want to reset but I have 4 steppers left to clean... fingers crossed one of them does it. Wife really wants a working pin and I've been keeping an eye out for a ready to go unit for her. Unfortunately I've been plagued with CL blocking my IP for some reason??? All I do is search wth. Hope that will be resolved soon. Maybe I'll get lucky at PaTZ and find something for her if nothing comes up in the meantime.
For now I'll go lick my wounds, have a beer and call it a night.
Until next time.
Chuck those posts in a drill (an old-fashioned plug-in one), and clean them up with emery cloth. Then polish with Mother's mag and aluminum polish. They'll gleam again.
Quoted from Zarklin:Things just got a bit more involved. SOB!
You sound like a sensitive artist. Ha-ha! (I'm speaking, as an artist, BTW.) Sometimes I'll create something and think it looks like absolutely hammered dung. Then I'll come back to it a couple days later and think to myself, "That's not so bad after all." The post holes strike me that way. They really don't look too awfully bad. I see ONE "100" post in the yellow that might use some wood filler, sanding, and a touch-up. I guess it depends on how pristine you want your Op-Pop-Pop, though. Maybe step back for a sec and think about whether this is gonna be a forever machine or not. If yes, sure, go nuts. Make it perfect in every way that makes a difference to you. If this is gonna be something you play for a little while and then pass along the fun to someone else, you don't want to be upside-down on this machine due to all the time and energy you have into it. Just my opinion, though. There are a lot of them around here.
Quoted from Zarklin:Debating if I should even bother trying to save these posts.
I'm with Jrpinball. They look completely salvageable to me.
Keep havin' fun!
-Ryan
Quoted from RyanClaytor:You sound like a sensitive artist. Ha-ha! (I'm speaking, as an artist, BTW.) Sometimes I'll create something and think it looks like absolutely hammered dung. Then I'll come back to it a couple days later and think to myself, "That's not so bad after all." The post holes strike me that way. They really don't look too awfully bad. I see ONE "100" post in the yellow that might use some wood filler, sanding, and a touch-up. I guess it depends on how pristine you want your Op-Pop-Pop, though. Maybe step back for a sec and think about whether this is gonna be a forever machine or not. If yes, sure, go nuts. Make it perfect in every way that makes a difference to you. If this is gonna be something you play for a little while and then pass along the fun to someone else, you don't want to be upside-down on this machine due to all the time and energy you have into it. Just my opinion, though. There are a lot of them around here.
I'm with Jrpinball. They look completely salvageable to me.
Keep havin' fun!
-Ryan
Being they are my firsts I'll probably keep both long term. That said one thing I have always struggled with is "Perfect/better is the enemy of good" In my push for perfect I broke good. I'll get things back to ok at the very least. I started with Op-Pop-Pop as my learning pin so I'm sure I'll be upside down in it real quick. But I knew that going in, I wanted to make all my first mistakes here.
At some point (maybe at PaTZ) I want to find a totally thrashed pf something that no one would waste a moment repairing. Why you ask... practice! Popping out and leveling inserts, try to fill cracks and do touch ups make my hands on mistakes. So when I can snag a deal on a rough Nip-it or Four Million B.C. I'll know where to take extra care and what's not worth the risk. You wouldn't pop the hood on a Corvette for a kid in shop class, you give him a wrench and a Pinto. Just the way my mind works lol I can read for days but until the tools are in my hands it doesn't stick
Thank you for the encouragement and guidance along the way everyone.
1 week later
Just wanted to let those following along know the project is still going. I've hit a snails pace dealing with a lot of busy times. All good things but taking away from the project. We spent the weekend at PaTZ and had a great time. Added a couple working pins to the lineup Spirit of 76 and Contact. Also grabbed my first SS project for some time down the road. Should be back at the Op-Pop-Pop sometime the first week of May.
I knew you'd wind up with more pins ! A couple working ones will be nice while you tinker with the projects. Good thinking. 
4 months later
1 month later
1 week later
Just letting anyone s till following know I'm still alive lol... haven't really touched the projects in a long time. I'll get back to them eventually just had too much going on. Once we get the water problem fixed and finish remodeling the basement I'll get back at it.
4 weeks later
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