(Topic ID: 62394)

First EM Opinions: Expressway or Space Mission?

By tcv

10 years ago


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  • 15 posts
  • 7 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 10 years ago by EM-PINMAN
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#1 10 years ago

So, I'm about to buy a first pin. It's my first toe into the water of collecting, I imagine.

I'm in a good location with a lot of repair people and, in fact, the table will remain in a location where I can work on it and be able to ask questions of folks more versed than me.

There are several tables available, but I've kind of zeroed in on these two. The price on either machine is easily affordable, the playfields have light wear and the games are in the care of a collector I know and trust. They are both what he'd call light projects, which seems about perfect for me right now.

Space Mission in particular seems to have a cottage industry behind it with completely reproduced plastics and backglass. The backglass is probably a loss. It's soooo bad. The playfield looks good. It will need cleanup.

Expressway looks great. It's clean and the colors are vibrant. The size appeals to me and, well, this being a first em, the idea of a 4-player em is a bit scary to me.

Any thoughts are welcome.

#2 10 years ago

I haven't played an expressway in decades (literally) but I can tell you the Space Mission is a fun one.

#3 10 years ago

I've played both recently (in fact, I own a Space Mission) and would have to say Space Mission is much more fun game to play (though I do like the Expressway art package and would love to own one as well, but not if it meant getting rid of my SM)
My buddy has both of them and he would never sell his SM though I believe he's tried to sell (or just recently sold) his Expressway.

Good point on the single player vs 4 player part. Yes, more moving parts but once you learn a bit, the 4 players are really not that much harder to get going than a single player. Besides, think of how much practice you'll get dialing in score reel zero position switches with a 4 player game! On the other hand, some people consider single players to be more collectable due to deeper rules. As long as it's a fun game I don't really care if it's a 1, 2, 4 or 6 player game!

In conclusion, buy them both!

Cheers,
Art.

#4 10 years ago

I'd love to have a wedgehead, and the only thing I have against a 4 player game is that they are really very heavy. Not sure if that is a consideration or not. I agree with MrArt, I too would not part with my SM. I have tried to anylize what it is about it that's so appealing but have yet to pinpoint the reason. There's nothing really crazy about the ruleset or anything like that. I just enjoy it.
I have heard there are reproduction back glasses available.

#5 10 years ago

Steve, I ran across your video before I ran across your thread here when you shopped yours out. Admittedly, your thread left me feeling a bit overwhelmed considering all the stuff you did and had to do. The key to any big project, I think, is to break down big goals into lots of tiny tasks and BE PATIENT.

Buying both is not out of the question. They're both likely to stay where they're at for the during of my working on them.

There are reproduction Space Mission backglasses and plastics available. The BG is around $300 after shipping. The only issue I was able to quickly spy on the Space Mission yesterday were some warped plastics. I've read here that there are ways to cure that without buying repros.

#6 10 years ago
Quoted from tcv:

The key to any big project, I think, is to break down big goals into lots of tiny tasks and BE PATIENT.

Absolutely. Was the same with my Space Odyssey when I restored it... lots of things needing to be done, but you approach it as "a series of little things, all needing to be done" and then get them done one at a time. "Baby steps" as it were.

Quoted from tcv:

There are reproduction Space Mission backglasses and plastics available. The BG is around $300 after shipping. The only issue I was able to quickly spy on the Space Mission yesterday were some warped plastics. I've read here that there are ways to cure that without buying repros.

I can vouch for the CPR backglasses looking awesome here... I managed to grab the last one from Matt Farmer after CPR sold out of the Space Odyssey ones. I believe they still have Space Mission backglasses, but are out of the Space Odyssey ones.

As for the plastics, an alternative to picking up the repros is to find someone else who did and see if they'd be willing to part with some of their originals (hint: like me).

#7 10 years ago
Quoted from bleargh:

Absolutely. Was the same with my Space Odyssey when I restored it... lots of things needing to be done, but you approach it as "a series of little things, all needing to be done" and then get them done one at a time. "Baby steps" as it were.

Yep. I work in IT and a lot of these ideas still apply. It's easy to get overwhelmed by a big picture. At least it is for me, maybe others look at a goal consisting of hundreds of tiny steps and it doesn't phase 'em.

I tell you though, there are some things that seem so utterly impossible to me right now. For instance: dismantling a playfield to clean it. How in the hell does anyone keep all those parts in place. I hear the old saw: "lots of pictures and videos" but I've done that with some laptops and still have trouble getting them back together. A playfield seems infinitely more complicated.

Another thing I wonder about: How does one clean wires? Surely all that latex and plastic and rubber has got to be harboring some major sticky gunk and dirt. Does one literally have to pull a single wire out of the harnesses and clean them? Maybe that's the only way.

Gah, getting too worried just thinking about it.

Quoted from bleargh:

I can vouch for the CPR backglasses looking awesome here... I managed to grab the last one from Matt Farmer after CPR sold out of the Space Odyssey ones. I believe they still have Space Mission backglasses, but are out of the Space Odyssey ones.
As for the plastics, an alternative to picking up the repros is to find someone else who did and see if they'd be willing to part with some of their originals (hint: like me).

Thanks! I will definitely keep it all in mind.

#8 10 years ago
Quoted from tcv:

Yep. I work in IT and a lot of these ideas still apply. It's easy to get overwhelmed by a big picture. At least it is for me, maybe others look at a goal consisting of hundreds of tiny steps and it doesn't phase 'em.

Practice. I've been a software dev for ~30yrs, and "reducing everything down to baby steps" became my mantra several years back. Reading Martin Fowler's "Refactoring" reminded me that its all just baby steps; "big steps" are just comprised of multiple smaller steps. Took me forever for it to really sink in, but once it did, a whole lot of things became a lot simpler.

Quoted from tcv:

I tell you though, there are some things that seem so utterly impossible to me right now. For instance: dismantling a playfield to clean it. How in the hell does anyone keep all those parts in place. I hear the old saw: "lots of pictures and videos" but I've done that with some laptops and still have trouble getting them back together. A playfield seems infinitely more complicated.

Yeah, LOTS of pictures. LOTS.

Any time I dismantle a playfield, each section gets put into its own ziploc baggie, already labelled with the area of the playfield I'm stripping down. First photo? Hand holding the labelled ziploc baggie directly over the spot in question. Then one shot of the area w/o the baggie, then a shot of that part of the playfield after I've pulled it all up and stuffed it in the baggie.

Thereafter, individual baggies are not allowed to cross-contaminate. Going in the tumbler? One baggie at a time. Getting polished? One baggie at a time. Keeping it pieced up in small baggies also made it easier for me to do a little bit of work each day. Rather than needing several hours of time to do something awesome, I'd take 30-60mins tops and do one part of the machine. Every day I felt a little bit closer to getting it all done.

And yeah, when it comes time to put it all back together again, having a bajillion photos makes the world of difference. Take piles more photos than you think you'll need; at some point you'll find that one of those photos has that one piece at just the right angle to see HowTF it lined up with that other piece next to it.

#9 10 years ago
Quoted from tcv:

The only issue I was able to quickly spy on the Space Mission yesterday were some warped plastics. I've read here that there are ways to cure that without buying repros.

yup, warped plastics can be easily fixed by cooking them in a pf glass "sandwich" in the sun for a few hours...

Quoted from tcv:

Another thing I wonder about: How does one clean wires? Surely all that latex and plastic and rubber has got to be harboring some major sticky gunk and dirt. Does one literally have to pull a single wire out of the harnesses and clean them?

i've been using alcohol wipes to clean them on my current project... i would not diassemble the harness and clean them wire by wire... just clean what you "see"... there's no need to try to clean what is "inside" the harness... besides it being a royal pita to pull one apart and tie it back together, it's amazing how clean the "inside" of a harness is, even on a machine that is completely filthy...

pf teardowns are *reasonably easy* if you are methodical... disassemble one portion, take pictures every step of the way (as others have noted, take more than you think you will ever need... it probbaly still won't be enough ) and take notes of "what screws hold this in" and "what order it came apart"... the hardest part you'll have to deal with there is that one (or more) of the pf screws may break... be gentle when removing parts, and don't use excessive force unless absolutely necessary...

as a fellow "relatively new" person, i'd offer a bit of advice... don't get too far ahead of yourself... when you mentioned "cleaning wires one by one", that kinda jumped out at me a bit... imo, start by "shopping" the machine (strip/clean/wax pf, rebuild flippers/pops, r&r crudded assemblies, etc.)... after you have done that once, and have a machine that "works good", you'll have a lot better understanding of what you are looking at (not to mention more confidence)... one man's opinion, anyway... two common pieces of advice from the "old heads" that are worth heeding is "don't fix what ain't broke" and "the enemy of *good enough* is *better*"...

#10 10 years ago

dupe... ugh monday mornings...

#11 10 years ago
Quoted from bleargh:

Practice. I've been a software dev for ~30yrs, and "reducing everything down to baby steps" became my mantra several years back. Reading Martin Fowler's "Refactoring" reminded me that its all just baby steps; "big steps" are just comprised of multiple smaller steps. Took me forever for it to really sink in, but once it did, a whole lot of things became a lot simpler.

What does that book say about trying to attain perfection? That can be the enemy of working, too ... at least for me.

#12 10 years ago
Quoted from ccotenj:

as a fellow "relatively new" person, i'd offer a bit of advice... don't get too far ahead of yourself... when you mentioned "cleaning wires one by one", that kinda jumped out at me a bit... imo, start by "shopping" the machine (strip/clean/wax pf, rebuild flippers/pops, r&r crudded assemblies, etc.)...

I hear you. I would not pull apart harnesses wire-by-wire in order to clean them. I was using that as a hypothetical for someone who was trying to get a machine perfectly clean.

Your list is something that I definitely want to do. How does one do all that work on the pf without pulling everything off?

One-step-at-a-time. One-step-at-a-time.

I'm finding that there's not a heck of a lot of information out there about Expressway. At least, I haven't found a manual yet.

#13 10 years ago
Quoted from tcv:

I hear you. I would not pull apart harnesses wire-by-wire in order to clean them. I was using that as a hypothetical for someone who was trying to get a machine perfectly clean.
Your list is something that I definitely want to do. How does one do all that work on the pf without pulling everything off?
One-step-at-a-time. One-step-at-a-time.
I'm finding that there's not a heck of a lot of information out there about Expressway. At least, I haven't found a manual yet.

"perfectly clean"... you'd unsolder the harness from everything, take it outside, and give it a good bath with some kind of solvent them rinse and dry well... since i just LOVE to solder, i'm not going that far...

"all that work on pf"... you pull everything off... while it might seem intimidating at first, it's not that hard... you can do it! just keep track of what you are doing... think of it as a puzzle... the worst part is the pop bumper light sockets, those blow... but patience gets them in there and soldered...

"manuals"... generally speaking, "manuals" for em's aren't real helpful... schematics are a must though, and those can be found for just about anything...

there are several people out here who are very helpful and patient... they have guided me through several things that seemed impossible to me at first, but as long as you keep trying, they'll keep helping you...

#14 10 years ago

All right. I am giving a minority report.
I confess I hate Space Mission. I owned it for a few months... and this is the one game I sold I don't regret. Ever. Despite the theme (I love the Apollo Soyuz reference) and the legendary designer.

My reasons are the kickbacks. They spoil all my attempts to control the ball. Feel free to disagree.

3 months later
#15 10 years ago
Quoted from tcv:

Expressway looks great. It's clean and the colors are vibrant.

Go with the Expressway. It's on my wishlist as well. More to shoot for and a better Ruleset as it is a single player.

Ken

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