(Topic ID: 144226)

First EM - Gottlieb MIBS needs reviving!

By MaxAsh

8 years ago


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Topic Stats

  • 64 posts
  • 13 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 8 years ago by MaxAsh
  • Topic is favorited by 3 Pinsiders

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  • Mibs Gottlieb, 1969

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There are 64 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 2.
#50 8 years ago

Yay.

1: Well, part of this one is to look at the part of the schematic that has the lights on it. But it's not here. So, if I had that part of the schematic, I would look at the game over light and see what turns it on and off. Once I see that, I've got a clue as to what happens after the 5th ball is played, which might lead me to how the game is supposed to know how to prevent the ball return coil from firing.

When playing a game, does the ball count unit operate? Do the ball in play lights work in the head? Once it hits 1 ball to play, does it just stay there and keep serving balls for a never ending game? If s, with respect to the switches on the ball count unit, look at them...watch what happens as you operate the add coil from 1 to 2, then 2 to 3, 3 to 4...nothing should change the state of those switches. From 4 to 5, one switch should make and another should break. Is that what's going on?

2. Weak: clean cabinet flipper switches; you'll need a metal file. Get them shiny, and flat. Adjust so that when the button is pressed, the contacts touch all over, like a penny stacked on another. All the power goes through those switches to the coil. Clean and adjust the EOS switches next to the flipper coils. Make sure they are clean, tight contact, and only open at the very end of the switch. Then all the other usual suspects...replace coil sleeves, make sure plunger isn't rusty, gummy from the 3 in 1 oil somebody squirted in there in 1978, or mushroomed and clean or grind or replace. Replace the bakelite links between the pawl and the plunger if there is slop, caused by the ovaling of the link over time. Deeper press: adjust the flipper switch on the left to match the gap on the one on the right. Make sure that the return spring is set the same for both flippers, and that it is set to the weakest position that brings the flipper to the home position. If it is set too tight, the flipper power is wasted trying to fight the spring on the way up. Make it's load light as you can.

You should probably also set the power to the high tap position on the transformer by moving the red wire from the normal loop to the high loop. That will add about 10% more power to the flippers, and everything else.

3. Inserts: worry about them after you get the game playing 100%, then read up on RGP for how to level inserts or cupped inserts.

#51 8 years ago

Yay.

1: Well, part of this one is to look at the part of the schematic that has the lights on it. But it's not here. So, if I had that part of the schematic, I would look at the game over light and see what turns it on and off. Once I see that, I've got a clue as to what happens after the 5th ball is played, which might lead me to how the game is supposed to know how to prevent the ball return coil from firing.

When playing a game, does the ball count unit operate? Do the ball in play lights work in the head? Once it hits 1 ball to play, does it just stay there and keep serving balls for a never ending game? If s, with respect to the switches on the ball count unit, look at them...watch what happens as you operate the add coil from 1 to 2, then 2 to 3, 3 to 4...nothing should change the state of those switches. From 4 to 5, one switch should make and another should break. Is that what's going on?

2. Weak: clean cabinet flipper switches; you'll need a metal file. Get them shiny, and flat. Adjust so that when the button is pressed, the contacts touch all over, like a penny stacked on another. All the power goes through those switches to the coil. Clean and adjust the EOS switches next to the flipper coils. Make sure they are clean, tight contact, and only open at the very end of the switch. Then all the other usual suspects...replace coil sleeves, make sure plunger isn't rusty, gummy from the 3 in 1 oil somebody squirted in there in 1978, or mushroomed and clean or grind or replace. Replace the bakelite links between the pawl and the plunger if there is slop, caused by the ovaling of the link over time. Deeper press: adjust the flipper switch on the left to match the gap on the one on the right. Make sure that the return spring is set the same for both flippers, and that it is set to the weakest position that brings the flipper to the home position. If it is set too tight, the flipper power is wasted trying to fight the spring on the way up. Make it's load light as you can.

You should probably also set the power to the high tap position on the transformer by moving the red wire from the normal loop to the high loop. That will add about 10% more power to the flippers, and everything else.

3. Inserts: worry about them after you get the game playing 100%, then read up on RGP for how to level inserts or cupped inserts.

1 week later
#52 8 years ago

Here's the section you asked about I believe JoeG. Let me know if this helps. The ball count unit does increment, but I'm not sure about the lights (game over, ball in play, etc) since most sockets are so rusted out they don't make a good connection. I'll start working on cleaning all of those since it looks like it will help with troubleshooting.

MIBS_Lights.jpgMIBS_Lights.jpg

#53 8 years ago

Are you in a spot yet where you can tell what turns on the Game Over light from the schematic?

#54 8 years ago

Hey JoeG, just had my shoulder surgery yesterday, so it will be a bit before I can tinker with it. Hopefully not long. To answer your question, looks like the ball count unit pos 0 and XB relay are tied to the game over light. When I can, I'm going to check the Ball Count unit to verify that final motion is happening, and that it's actually triggering the correct action. A friend said there might be a missing post on the unit, I'll check that too. Then the XB relay will be on my list.

#55 8 years ago

It's just the make/break switch on XB. When XB is not tripped, the Ball Count lights are able to light (via the position of the Ball Count wiper). When XB is tripped, that make/break switch changes state, and then the Game Over light should turn on.

1 week later
#56 8 years ago

Still no luck on the never-ending game situation. I fixed a bunch of lights (including the ball count lights and game over light). The ball count stepper unit, and the ball count lights, all properly count when a ball drains and a new one is fed to the shooting lane through the trough. When it gets to ball 5 however, and that 5th ball drains, the ball simply pops back into the shooting lane and the ball count unit/light both stay at 5. I cleaned XB and O relays and checked them, they seem okay. The motor is involved in the sequence, but it's also fine from what I can tell. Going to work on it some more this week.

Sidenote: I've been fixing the lights using the method where you move the connection to the tip/nipple of the socket and solder the socket cylinder to the bracket. It's been working great, and lots of lights are up and running. While buying all new sockets to replace the rusty ones would be nice, this is cost-effective and works fine for now. Yea, it takes time, but I'm fine with that so far.

#57 8 years ago

Does the wiper disc on your Ball Count unit have the black cloth-covered bridge wire on the pair of spring-loaded fingers?

#58 8 years ago
Quoted from DirtFlipper:

Does the wiper disc on your Ball Count unit have the black cloth-covered bridge wire on the pair of spring-loaded fingers?

Yes, but now that you mention it, those connections seem a little "loose". Should I solder those wires down to the fingers? I can post a pic if it helps, let me know.

EDIT: Wow, I'm an idiot, and you sir are a genius. Thanks DirtFlipper. Right after I wrote the above, my brain clicked from your comment and reminded me I didn't clean the stepper contacts for the bottom spring loaded fingers. I cleaned every other stepper contact in the game, but forgot those. As soon as I cleaned them, boom, Game Over works perfectly now (light and all). Thank you!

On to the next problem... I'll post back after I tinker some more.

2 months later
#59 8 years ago

Reviving my other EM thread with a question about replacing coils. My ball return kicker was weak (takes 2-3 kicks to push the ball into the shooting lane), and after trying the cleaning method, and replacing the coil sleeve method, I wasn't having much luck. Nothing mechanical seemed to be the issue, it all moved smoothly when manually manipulated. I decided to get a new coil. My schematic said it was a Gottlieb A-1496, so I ordered one.

I took care to make sure I wired it up exactly as the existing one, reassembled everything, and then tried it out. The kicker didn't respond at all, and the game got stuck cycling the "O" relay and failing to trigger the outhole kicker. I thought perhaps I had assembled it incorrectly, or wired it wrong. I checked and re-checked, no luck. I decided to put the old coil back on, and reassembled it all again... and it's back the way it was (working, but a little weak).

Looking at the coils (old vs new) they seem identical in size/shape. The only difference I noticed was the diode that exists on the new one, between the two lugs, but I assume this is just something common on newer coils?

Any thoughts on what might be wrong here? I know I wired them the exact same way, and the connections tested fine continuity-wise... yet the new coil seems to do nothing. Suggestions/thoughts welcome. Thanks!

#60 8 years ago

Take the diode off. You simply clip it off with some pliers or cutters and it should work fine. Note that the coil may not be the issue, however, with your ball-kicker. There's a whole thread about this somewhere around the EM forums (Dirtflipper started it) on the topic. Anyway, you can clip that diode off and the coil will work fine.

#62 8 years ago

Okay, I'll try removing the diode, thanks! I'll also check for Dirtflipper's thread as suggested.

EDIT: Found it, for reference: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/em-gottlieb-ball-return-not-kicking-ball-out-to-shooter-one-cause#post-2027982

#63 8 years ago

The geometry of passing the ball through to the shooter lane is critical and Gottlieb's design here was not as reliable as say Williams (later copied by Gottlieb!). I have tinkered with the coil/plunger on that kicker lever with some success. They redesigned the hole that the ball sits in the mid 70's, but I'm not sure it made it better.

#64 8 years ago

At least I know it's not uncommon. Seems like it works about 50% of the time first kick, the rest it takes 2-3 attempts. It's not a huge deal, but it is annoying. I'll mess with it some more, but I've still got other things to work on in this pin, and I can always come back to this issue. Thanks again all!

There are 64 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 2.

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