Pinbot
Williams, 1986Quoted from cosmokramer:And its all done with the exception of the clear...going to spray it with 2pac when I spray the cabinet...I am really happy with the way it turned out.
Time spent epoxying plugs and quarter, filler and sand, spray primer with wet sand between coats, bbq black paint with wet sand between coats, spritz laquer : One hour
dollars spent $20.25
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That looks better then new. VERY nice.
Quoted from cosmokramer:Time spent epoxying plugs and quarter, filler and sand, spray primer with wet sand between coats, bbq black paint with wet sand between coats, spritz laquer : One hour
dollars spent $20.
It looks great and you should have adequate supplies to do at least one more, if not more, door.
I really appreciate the kind words guys, thank you....this week I hope to lay down the base black, I read that I should wait at least 3 weeks after base but before stencil so I would like to get it sprayed soon...
I have read that some people have sprayed clear over base coat before stenciling....any advantage to doing it that way, or am I ok to stencil over base then just clear when its all done?
A few parts showed up today...mostly shooter rod stuff, new leg bolts, transparent blue flipper buttons and flex LEDs to light them and a few more odds and ends...
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Now that the coin door is done I will focus on the legs, lockdown bar and siderails...legs are rusty but they will polish up, I use crumpled up aluminum foil and water or soda and it strips the rust off quickly, then they will get polished...legs will get new bolts, levelers and cab protectors when it gets re assrmbled...
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One siderail is in good shape, the other has a few small dings I will try to remove before polishing.....
Heres just a quick pic of how easy the foil works...these front legs just have light rust, it wont take much to clean them up...the rear legs are a bit worse
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just foil and water and honestly only 10 seconds or less of scrubbing for light rust such as this....
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looks much better (I only did a small section in the middle of the leg for photo)... for the rears if they dont come clean quickly then I will use soda instead of water...
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Well the rear legs are not that bad after all, a bit heavier rust than the fronts but I have seen much worse...it looks like they rigged up something for the leveler, it will be replaced...
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and after just a bit of rubbing...(again I only did a few inches for photo, if you look at the last pic you can still see rust a little farther up the leg...it will come right off)
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Im not familiar with the products that you are using, it looks like you have 3 components for the clear. Is the basecoat ready to spray or do you need a reducer for that too? The black should give you good coverage but red and yellow over black will probably be poor hiding. Stick with more light coats because if you get heavy it will take forever to dry. Im not sure that you need to wait 3 weeks for the black to dry, check with your supplier.
With rattle can enamel I always spray, let dry for 3-4 days then sand and let dry for 3 days. Rinse and repeat as I see fit. The let dry for 3 days after sanding I found works great and no problems with the next coat.
Quoted from bam10:Im not familiar with the products that you are using, it looks like you have 3 components for the clear. Is the basecoat ready to spray or do you need a reducer for that too? The black should give you good coverage but red and yellow over black will probably be poor hiding. Stick with more light coats because if you get heavy it will take forever to dry. Im not sure that you need to wait 3 weeks for the black to dry, check with your supplier.
basecoat is 1
with reducer....clear is 4 with activator and a "splash" of reducer...
the colors will be done in several light coats with sanding in between...
Quoted from MikeO:It looks great and you should have adequate supplies to do at least one more, if not more, door.
You are right, I edited post to reflect that I only used about $10 in supplies for coin door paint...there is enough left over to do another door....thanks for the correction.
Thanks for posting this! I have a few project pinball machines I have to do the same thing to. Pinbot is actually one of them.
Pinbot, Grand Lizard, Xenon and High Speed. Adding up those hours. Looks like I will have to take some vacation time to work on them!
Quoted from TechnicalSteam:Thanks for posting this! I have a few project pinball machines I have to do the same thing to. Pinbot is actually one of them.
Pinbot, Grand Lizard, Xenon and High Speed. Adding up those hours. Looks like I will have to take some vacation time to work on them!
I'm not sure what will be more startling when I total it all up...the dollars spent on this or the man hours, but so far it has been fun.
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This part was easy...the shooter rod had been broken and epoxied by previous owner, the housing had black paint on it from someone doing cab touch up...
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I used a Q-tip and a touch of the same paint remover and it made quick work of the leftover paint, then into the vibrator/walnut again for another day...looks better, not perfect but acceptable...it looks in the photo as if it has rust on it but it is just flash from camera doing weird things...
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new shooter parts...
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And ready to be installed....
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Time spent on removing paint and re assembly: 10 min
dollars spent : $8
My shelf of dirty parts is slowly becoming a shelf of clean parts ready to be installed...I have to finish rust removal and polish on legs, rails and lockdown bar...clean and repaint the back box door (is that what it is called? the wooden board with the backglass bulbs and score displays) ... I am not doing anything at this time with the board sets, just focusing on cab features, Im sure I will clean and bulletproof them using vids guide at a later time
Quoted from bam10:When you paint your cabinet black paint a piece of scrap too so you can test your red and yellow, then you will have an idea what to expect.
Thanks for the tip, I was going to shoot a scrap piece to test the clear...I will shoot a few extra pieces for color testing as well.
Gotta thank fellow pinsider girloveswaffles who was kind enough to hook me up with a pair of NOS wico reject buttons and springs for the coin door...can't wait to see what they look like in the door, I really appreciate it gir!
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The buttons look so good I wanted to see if I could clean up the coin chute sleeves ... in its past someone spray painted the coin door with some black paint, getting quite a bit of it inside and on the front lip of the sleeve...
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I soaked them in some alcohol for a bit...
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then used a paper clip and 600 grit sandpaper to clean out all the black paint...the lip is ever so slightly distorted, probably a reaction to the paint I'm not sure, but I doubt you will be able to tell when it is re assembled
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Quoted from cireone:Looking good man! Gives me motivation to start on my Gorgar!
let me know when your ready, I have a lot of supplies left over
Hopefully got past a major setback today...remember this...
Quoted from cosmokramer:Today I ran into my first problem, this corner of the cabinet has plywood that continually bubbles up and blisters. I noticed it after sanding the paint off and first I tried to remove all the loose particles with compressed air and a small screwdriver and then fill with body filler...after I sanded down filler it would look perfect, only to bubble up again and have loose wood fibers flaking off...Then I thought that the primer would seal the loose fiber and I could proceed with no issue...this morning I went to sand primer and spray final coat and I noticed blistering again in the same area.... this time I used glue and spread it around the whole area to soak into loose fibers and lock it down, tomorrow I will sand the area again, check for blisters, and finish with primer...
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Well what was happening was that this cab got very wet years back and the plywood near the corner started to delaminate...the more I filled it the more I found...chips of plywood separated from layer underneath (sorry...didn't get any photos during this stage...was trying not to panic)...only thing I could try was to carefully pick away at any spots that were delaminating until I hit solid wood in every direction, then used filler and sanded smooth...finished that and checked for more delamination and found none...hopefully it wont show up again later but at this point I have to move on...sprayed what will probably be the final primer coat today and it looks good...I will hit it with some wet 1000 grit just a swipe or two to knock down the whiskers and if all looks good then I am finally ready to spray black basecoat...
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Should I clear coat over the basecoat before I stencil colors?
Looking really great! I especially love how you cleaned up your coin slots - they look great!
Are you calling the primer basecoat - or do you truly mean basecoat/color coat?
If you mean Primer - No you do not clear that.
If you mean base color - I would paint the base and all of the colors first - then clear over all of it as long as you plan to do it quickly (within about 12 hours or so).
I wouldn't think you'd need to clear over base. Are you asking to be ultra conservative? Like when repairing a backglass - clear, so you could remove your last layer if you didn't like it? In theory, with all your hard work, you could clear the base, then if you had a problem with your stencil, you should be remove down to the clear over base.
This should be an unnecessary layer after base, as I would think you shouldn't have problems with the stencils. Then I'd heard many talk of clearing the final cabinet for an added layer of protection.
Keep up the great thread... I'm a month behind you... Gorgar is apart and in the shop!
Quoted from Pinterest:Are you calling the primer basecoat - or do you truly mean basecoat/color coat?
If you mean Primer - No you do not clear that.
If you mean base color - I would paint the base and all of the colors first - then clear over all of it as long as you plan to do it quickly (within about 12 hours or so).
Quoted from hd60609:I wouldn't think you'd need to clear over base. Are you asking to be ultra conservative? Like when repairing a backglass - clear, so you could remove your last layer if you didn't like it? In theory, with all your hard work, you could clear the base, then if you had a problem with your stencil, you should be remove down to the clear over base.
This should be an unnecessary layer after base, as I would think you shouldn't have problems with the stencils. Then I'd heard many talk of clearing the final cabinet for an added layer of protection.
Keep up the great thread... I'm a month behind you... Gorgar is apart and in the shop!
Thanks guys...Yes, I was referring to clearing over the black base coat before stenciling, I read some threads where this was done...I did not think it would be needed but thought I would ask...Looks like I will be completing all black base paint then stencil colors, then clear it all when I'm done.
should be spraying black this weekend...
When they paint a car they always spray the base coat then wet sand to get it smooth which dulls it then they spray the clear which gives it the shine. I'd do the same with the cab after you have all the colors down.
I think I have read the same threads where the guy put down colour, clear, colour, more clear over and over. I really don't understand how that adds depth to the colours. Do all your colours and then clear it. If you wanted the 'flat as a pool table' result you probably need to block sand after a first coat of clear to level where the colours overlap then clear again.
Quoted from cosmokramer:I will hit it with some wet 1000 grit just a swipe or two to knock down the whiskers and if all looks good then I am finally ready to spray black basecoat...
I'd say 1000 grit on the primer is too fine. you want the primer to have some tooth to promote adhesion with the base coat. When I paint a car I do a final wet sand with 400 before spraying a sealer followed by basecoat. I've known others to go up to 600 for their final wet sand. (I do kustoms and restoration work, not production style bodyshop)
Quoted from MrArt2u:I'd say 1000 grit on the primer is too fine. you want the primer to have some tooth to promote adhesion with the base coat. When I paint a car I do a final wet sand with 400 before spraying a sealer followed by basecoat. I've known others to go up to 600 for their final wet sand. (I do kustoms and restoration work, not production style bodyshop)
that makes sense...thanks for the tip...I would have sanded it too smooth
Quoted from MrArt2u:I'd say 1000 grit on the primer is too fine. you want the primer to have some tooth to promote adhesion with the base coat. When I paint a car I do a final wet sand with 400 before spraying a sealer followed by basecoat. I've known others to go up to 600 for their final wet sand. (I do kustoms and restoration work, not production style bodyshop)
I agree - I sand 400 dry, and then 500 & 600 wet.
It's only a pin cabinet though - and pretty flat so it will be fine with just hitting it lightly with 400.
I'm not going to document it step by step in this thread but just wanted to take this opportunity to remove, dis assemble, clean, tumble, and polish every mech under the playfield...change every sleeve, check every solder connection...then I will strip the playfield, level raised inserts, take care of bubbles under mylar, polish mylar, wax, clean plastics, and re rubber...
meanwhile, back at the ranch...
I hit the primer with 400 as suggested above and then sprayed the first very light coat of black paint...I must say this automotive paint is expensive but it sure is easy to spray, even for someone like me with no experience...
light first coat...
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will hit lightly with sandpaper and spray second coat in a few days
I dont think it should be necessary to wait days to put a second coat of automotive base on. The stuff is designed to be put on with a minimum flash time between coat with sanding optional only if needed. When I do a 2 tone on a car with product I use (standox) its typically 2 or 3 coats of the first color with 5 or 10 minutes between coats. 20 minutes later I am masking for the second color and ready to spray. 2 to 3 more coats for coverage and im ready for clear. Sanding might be needed if you wait to long, called recoat time and should be listed on your product. The spray can products will have much slower dry times.
Quoted from bam10:I dont think it should be necessary to wait days to put a second coat of automotive base on. The stuff is designed to be put on with a minimum flash time between coat with sanding optional only if needed. When I do a 2 tone on a car with product I use (standox) its typically 2 or 3 coats of the first color with 5 or 10 minutes between coats. 20 minutes later I am masking for the second color and ready to spray. 2 to 3 more coats for coverage and im ready for clear. Sanding might be needed if you wait to long, called recoat time and should be listed on your product. The spray can products will have much slower dry times.
great, I will spray the remaining coats in this fashion, I was going to do the second coat fairly quickly after the first but simply didn't allow enough time...lesson learned, now I know...
ordered pinball pimp stencils today...
Quoted from trilogybeer:Looking good cosmokramer.
thank you...
Well it was looking good...Today I was going to spray the final 2 coats of black and I was going to feel pretty good about being close to done...then BANG!, the pinball cabinet restoration gods laughed and said "we don't think you have paid your dues yet"...as I was setting up to begin to spray I was examining the cab in the sunlight and I saw A tiny blister at the top of the cab near where the head attaches...I knew this area would covered with the side rail and I could probably leave it and it would be ok, but I didn't want to half ass it now so I took a screwdriver to see what I was dealing with ( this blister looked similar to the ones I had to deal with when I found the delamination but they were in a different area that never got wet) to my horror what I had uncovered was an area where when the plywood was made the splice between two sheets of wood on the same layer had about a 3/8" gap between them when the sheet was glued...this was then covered by the next layer of the plywood (the last layer)... creating a 1/4"x3/8" channel covered by one layer of wood through the entire sheet of plywood they used to make the cab originally ...I had no choice but to chip it all out, fill it...then go back to sand and fill again before I can prime and paint the area...uuggghhhhh!... After a chance to let my blood pressure drop to normal I guess its better I found out now rather than after I was done...
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Quoted from RCA1:Gave you a thumbs up for not chucking the whole cab down the hill.
It's going to look awesome.
I thought about it...
I know... a material defect from 30 years ago finds a way of kicking me in the nuts...nothing I can do but smile and move on
Quoted from cosmokramer:I thought about it...
I know... a material defect from 30 years ago finds a way of kicking me in the nuts...nothing I can do but smile and move on
Yup.
That sucks , I would dish out ( make a slight angle into the affected area , starting about an inch past)that area around that so that you have more surface area for your last coat of filler .The filler will also be able to be feathered out then.
Quoted from trilogybeer:That sucks , I would dish out ( make a slight angle into the affected area , starting about an inch past)that area around that so that you have more surface area for your last coat of filler .The filler will also be able to be feathered out then.
Yup.
Wow - you ARE Cosmo!
That really sucks... I would definitely fill that gap with Dyna-Glass or Duraglas. It will fill the gap nicely and then feather it with a light skim of U-Pol Dolphin Glaze. It will look perfect when your done.
I hate that you had that issue. I am still waiting for it to get warm enough to spray here. It's not been 65 degrees yet 
.
Keep up the good work.
Quoted from Pinterest:Wow - you ARE Cosmo!
That really sucks... I would definitely fill that gap with Dyna-Glass or Duraglas. It will fill the gap nicely and then feather it with a light skim of U-Pol Dolphin Glaze. It will look perfect when your done.
I hate that you had that issue. I am still waiting for it to get warm enough to spray here. It's not been 65 degrees yet
Keep up the good work.
Who needs 65 degrees? I've been spraying all weekend. The paint has handled fine in the 50s.
Quoted from beelzeboob:Who needs 65 degrees? I've been spraying all weekend. The paint has handled fine in the 50s.
Yeah - so I see... Guess I need to get with it and get my project going. 
Quoted from Pinterest:Yeah - so I see... Guess I need to get with it and get my project going.
I blame my painting mistakes on the lower temperatures, though... 
You can never stop learning in pinball restorations (top restorers have recently told me how they still constantly improve through their mistakes). Cosmo, you're doing a great job. Don't get down from your setbacks...I've got my own to overcome. Sometimes you just want to say f**k it and burn it all. Gotta hang in there!
Its ok, if that is the only setback then I will have this done shortly..... I took a few days away from the cab project to fabricate some LED panels for behind the translight of my IMVE and SM... I will get back to the wood repair probably Wed or Thursday...
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before...
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after...but too much blue...adding some white to war machine and the clouds on the left hand side..
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Quoted from beelzeboob:I blame my painting mistakes on the lower temperatures, though...
You can never stop learning in pinball restorations (top restorers have recently told me how they still constantly improve through their mistakes). Cosmo, you're doing a great job. Don't get down from your setbacks...I've got my own to overcome. Sometimes you just want to say f**k it and burn it all. Gotta hang in there!
Lol... Wrapping up my FH restore, I recall many times when I figured the little guy should have a FH bobsled 
Quoted from cosmokramer:hmmmm, it really does look better in person than in that photo... ^^^^^^^
So do I.
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Saint Paul, MN
Weyburn, SK