(Topic ID: 335076)

Firepower static sound after game over

By JethroP

1 year ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

  • 33 posts
  • 12 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 year ago by JethroP
  • No one calls this topic a favorite

You

Linked Games

Topic Gallery

View topic image gallery

Untitled (resized).png
112 (resized).png
113 (resized).png
#1 1 year ago

Turn game on no issue. Start a game and sound is fine. When the game ends, there is about 20 seconds of static that tapers off. Start a new game and no issues. When the game ends, there is static sound again, but doesn't last as long and not as loud. Start another game, no issues, but after game over there is static again, but very short duration. After the game has been powered up for about 20 minutes the static issue at game over is gone. Everything is normal.

I have replaced the caps on the sound board. No change. The problem seems to go away as the game warms up. What could it be?

#2 1 year ago

Dirty rom legs? Bad rom socket? Bad rom? See if things change when you reseat the rom chip.

#3 1 year ago

I pulled the ROMs, cleaned the legs and reinserted. No change.

#4 1 year ago

When the static was gone I blew cold air (pressurized duster) on the chips and transistors on the sound boards hoping to identify a bad part, but it didn't help.

#5 1 year ago

Reseat the bottom left side driver board connector. This feeds to the sound board to activate the different sounds.

#6 1 year ago

The header pins on almost every WMS System 3-7 sound board I've seen have had cracked solder joints. And, the original pins were the craptastic round pins. It couldn't hurt to replace those headers.

And, perhaps obvious, but I always recap those boards.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.ChrisHiblerPinball.com/Contact
https://www.youtube.com/c/ChrisHiblerPinball
http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

#7 1 year ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

Reseat the bottom left side driver board connector

Reseated the connectors. Didn't fix the issue.

Quoted from ChrisHibler:

I always recap those boards.

Recapped it. Didn't fix the issue.

Seems to me that if it were a loose connection, the problem would always be there. But the problem (static) only happens for the first few games, eventually trailing off to nothing. And oddly, only happens during attract mode after game over.

#8 1 year ago
Quoted from JethroP:

Reseated the connectors. Didn't fix the issue.

Recapped it. Didn't fix the issue.
Seems to me that if it were a loose connection, the problem would always be there. But the problem (static) only happens for the first few games, eventually trailing off to nothing. And oddly, only happens during attract mode after game over.

Does the static come after the normal game over sound or in place of it?

#9 1 year ago
Quoted from Schwaggs:

Does the static come after the normal game over sound or in place of it?

Great question. It starts after the normal game over sound.

#10 1 year ago

If the static sound gradually disappears it would seem to be a heat related issue.
I would go with Chris' suggestion and change the male connectors on the sound board to rule out solder cracks or cold solder joints. As a rule I change these as a matter of course.

#11 1 year ago

I think we need more info. Is it erroneous digital noise, like is the sound board playing random sound calls when it should not be? Or is it amplifying hum/static from ground loop/lamp switching?

When i built a test fixture I noticed the routing of the volume control pot wiring can introduce noise. Just holding the wire near the display board picks up the display switching. The lamp matrix can do something similar.

I am almost going to rig up volume pots with real short wiring harness and leave it in the head near the board for games with sound boards that pick up a bunch of lamp and display switching noise.

The two by three square plug on the power supply with black carries the and lamp and sol ground from the rectifiers and lamp filter cap. That seems to be a spot of ground loop hum comes from. I noticed just touching that plug on a laserball removed a bunch of hum. The plug was burnt.

#12 1 year ago
Quoted from ChrisHibler:

It couldn't hurt to replace those headers.

I replaced the headers. No change.

Quoted from barakandl:

the sound board playing random sound calls when it should not be?

No.

Yes, but it doesn't coincide with lamp pulsing. It's just a loud steady hum/static that starts loudly after the game over sound calls end, then diminishes to silence.

When the game is cold, the sound lasts for roughly 20 seconds after the first game. After the second game the sound lasts for maybe 10 seconds. After the third game the sound lasts for maybe a second or two. After that, there is no more static/hum during game overs.

I'll try to take a video and upload later so you can hear what I'm talking about.

#13 1 year ago

Here's a video. Static/hum in attract mode during game over. After several games, the static/hum is totally gone.
Things I've tried which didn't help:

New caps on sound board.
Reseated Sound and speech chips.
Replaced headers on sound board.
Replaced 3 connectors and pins at sound board.
Replaced MPU and driver board.

#14 1 year ago

By curiosity, I would test with speech board unplugged.

#15 1 year ago

It's also skipping in the middle of sounds. Does that go away with time too?

#16 1 year ago
Quoted from Toeckeder:

By curiosity, I would test with speech board unplugged.

If I unplug the speech board there are no sounds at all. Game sounds or speech. What does that mean?

#17 1 year ago
Quoted from slochar:

It's also skipping in the middle of sounds. Does that go away with time too?

Not sure what you are referring to. I thought the game sounds are normal.

#18 1 year ago

The sound when the game is over is choppy.

#19 1 year ago

That sounds like digital junk noise.

When the game ends and it is playing odd noise, logic probe the PIA pins 2-9. If you get pulsing activity the PIA is telling the DAC to make noise. I think it would be more likely to come from the sound effect DAC than the speech chip. Basically you want to try and figure out where that noise is coming from.

The software doesn't seem to do any memory testing and i've seen some odd crap like that when the RAM or PIA is bad. My best guess. Too bad those chips are usually hard soldered to the board.

#20 1 year ago

That's horrible. Are all the grounds good? Ground pin not broken off of power cord? Good grounding in your house wiring? Did problem start after LED's were installed? Anything else not factory?

Couldn't hurt to try floating the sound boards by using plastic screws and washers, to insulate it from cabinet ground.

#21 1 year ago
Quoted from phishrace:

Ground pin not broken off of power cord? Good grounding in your house wiring?

While it is very important to have a proper intact cord and a grounded outlet, the lack of ground on the primary side of the transformer is never going to be the cause of machine issues. The ground on a power cord and house wiring is in place only for safety. The current on the hot wire must be equal to the current on the neutral with zero current flowing to the ground prong. Current is only carried through the outlet ground wire if/when something goes wrong, is mis-wired, has a short, etc. If this ground was ever used as the normal means of carrying current, you'd always trip a GFCI due to the resulting imbalance in the hot and neutral wires.

#22 1 year ago
Quoted from JethroP:

Here's a video. Static/hum in attract mode during game over. After several games, the static/hum is totally gone.
Things I've tried which didn't help:
New caps on sound board.
Reseated Sound and speech chips.
Replaced headers on sound board.
Replaced 3 connectors and pins at sound board.
Replaced MPU and driver board.

Replace Sound rom 3
No?

Replace the RAM 6810

#23 1 year ago
Quoted from JethroP:

If I unplug the speech board there are no sounds at all. Game sounds or speech. What does that mean?

Speech board removed Jumper:

A jumper is placed at W1 for sound to run without speech:

112 (resized).png112 (resized).png113 (resized).png113 (resized).png
#24 1 year ago

At the start of the second game, as it says 'Firepower' the junky noise is still running, then immediately quits when it's finished saying 'Firepower' & starts the first sound effect... if that points to anything.

#25 1 year ago
Quoted from frenchmarky:

At the start of the second game, as it says 'Firepower' the junky noise is still running, then immediately quits when it's finished saying 'Firepower' & starts the first sound effect... if that points to anything.

I noticed that too. I think that points to the noise coming from the sound card l, not the voice card.

You can test this by turning the voice/balance pot to one extreme, then the other when the noise is playing. My bet is it’s coming from the sound board part.

Did you try swapping the cpu chip between the sound board and the mpu board?

Just for kicks, what happens when you push the sound card diagnostics button?

I’d try a different rom in the sound card.

#26 1 year ago
Quoted from barakandl:

When the game ends and it is playing odd noise, logic probe the PIA pins 2-9. If you get pulsing activity the PIA is telling the DAC to make noise

So there is no pulsing on pins 1-7. When I touch the probe to either pins 8 or 9, the sound quits and shows no pulsing. When I release the probe the sound returns.

#27 1 year ago
Quoted from Schwaggs:

Just for kicks, what happens when you push the sound card diagnostics button?

I get some fuzzy kind of sounds, (I guess the static sound) along with some of the voice commands, but not all.

Quoted from Schwaggs:

I’d try a different rom in the sound card.

Replaced the sound ROM and made no difference.

#28 1 year ago
Quoted from JethroP:

So there is no pulsing on pins 1-7. When I touch the probe to either pins 8 or 9, the sound quits and shows no pulsing. When I release the probe the sound returns.

Interesting. That is PIA ports PA7 and PA8 which goes to the most significant bits inputs of the DAC. I think that points to the PIA or DAC if touching the probe there makes it stop.

I wonder if the PIA has a blown output and the probe is dragging the signal down or up? Does PIA pin 8 and 9 show a valid signal high or low? Does it seem like the PIA is trying to drive those signals? If you push the test button on the sound board all of those pins should be pulsing. Take note if any only blink the high light, only blink the low light. never changes state or give no reading.

Is the PIA made by... arghhh... AMI ? If so i'd be quick to suspect it. So many issues with AMI parts.

Untitled (resized).pngUntitled (resized).png

#29 1 year ago
Quoted from barakandl:

Take note if any only blink the high light, only blink the low light. never changes state or give no reading.

When I press the test button on the sound card and probe the PIA outputs, they all pulse and go high at the various sound/voice callouts, although the high (on my probe) flickers on some, and steady on others.

I didn't want to say earlier for fear of biasing any recommendation, but yeah, the PIA is a POS AMI. Of course, it's soldered in or I would have changed it already. I guess I should bite the bullet and try socketing in a new PIA?

#30 1 year ago
Quoted from JethroP:

When I press the test button on the sound card and probe the PIA outputs, they all pulse and go high at the various sound/voice callouts, although the high (on my probe) flickers on some, and steady on others.
I didn't want to say earlier for fear of biasing any recommendation, but yeah, the PIA is a POS AMI. Of course, it's soldered in or I would have changed it already. I guess I should bite the bullet and try socketing in a new PIA?

Suspect a Corrupt 6810

The PIA is doing what it's programmed to do, the system never crashes and can repeat the same problem over and over points to a bad/failing bit on the 6810

Garbage coming from the RAM to the PIA during the game over sound instruction.

The PIA shares the same signal that has garbage coming out for other sound selects however no other sounds are having the noise.

#31 1 year ago
Quoted from PINTEC:

Suspect a Corrupt 6810

Just replaced 6810. No change.

#32 1 year ago
Quoted from JethroP:

Just replaced 6810. No change.

Cut the PIA pin 9 trace and check the behavior

Re check hi low port behavior against other 7 ports

Ok now? Replace IC 13

Difference continues?
Replace IC 10

#33 1 year ago

Replaced PIA. Fixed the noise!

Promoted items from Pinside Marketplace and Pinside Shops!
1,400 (Firm)
Machine - For Sale
Benton, PA
From: $ 5.00
Cabinet - Other
UpKick Pinball
 
Trade
Machine - For Trade
Washington Court House, OH
From: $ 90.00
Tools
Pincoder Store
 
$ 27.95
Eproms
Pinballrom
 
From: $ 9.00
2,900 (OBO)
Machine - For Sale
Hawesville, KY
$ 42.95
Eproms
Pinballrom
 
From: $ 11.00
$ 12.50
Lighting - Led
RoyGBev Pinball
 
$ 129.00
Cabinet Parts
Bob's Pinball Stuff
 
$ 170.00
Displays
Digipinball Shop
 
$ 15.00
Playfield - Protection
UpKick Pinball
 
$ 11.00
Electronics
Yorktown Arcade Supply
 
2,200 (OBO)
Machine - For Sale
Branford, CT

Reply

Wanna join the discussion? Please sign in to reply to this topic.

Hey there! Welcome to Pinside!

Donate to Pinside

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run without any 3rd-party banners or ads, thanks to the support from our visitors? Please consider a donation to Pinside and get anext to your username to show for it! Or better yet, subscribe to Pinside+!


This page was printed from https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/firepower-static-sound-after-game-over and we tried optimising it for printing. Some page elements may have been deliberately hidden.

Scan the QR code on the left to jump to the URL this document was printed from.