(Topic ID: 312498)

Firepower sound issue - please help

By Jmckune

2 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

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  • 16 posts
  • 6 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 years ago by PINTEC
  • Topic is favorited by 3 Pinsiders

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#1 2 years ago

So I picked up a Firepower on the cheap. The good news is everything is there and it boots and plays. The bad news is there are some sound problems that are unfamiliar to me as to how to diagnose. I am comfortable working on Sys 11 and WPC machines but have not had an early solid state before. Initially, when I got the game, the sound would cut out part way through the game. Only way to get it back on was to power cycle. Now I’ve got it working consistently by reseating all connectors associated with the sound board and giving both volume pots good back and forth turns to get any potential crud out. but there is still no speech and once the game ends, sounds continue on and do not stop unless you turn the game off. Not sure where to start here. Also, how do I activate free play? I assume it’s an option on one of those dip switches on the CPU but not sure which one. Thanks for the help, excited to get this thing in better working shape

#2 2 years ago
Quoted from Jmckune:

So I picked up a Firepower on the cheap. The good news is everything is there and it boots and plays. The bad news is there are some sound problems that are unfamiliar to me as to how to diagnose. I am comfortable working on Sys 11 and WPC machines but have not had an early solid state before. Initially, when I got the game, the sound would cut out part way through the game. Only way to get it back on was to power cycle. Now I’ve got it working consistently by reseating all connectors associated with the sound board and giving both volume pots good back and forth turns to get any potential crud out. but there is still no speech and once the game ends, sounds continue on and do not stop unless you turn the game off. Not sure where to start here. Also, how do I activate free play? I assume it’s an option on one of those dip switches on the CPU but not sure which one. Thanks for the help, excited to get this thing in better working shape

Congrats on the “new” game!

Free play is enabled my setting Max Credits to 0 which is setting #18 Instructions to do that is in the instruction manual. https://www.ipdb.org/machine.cgi?id=856

#3 2 years ago

For the sound board, you should reflow the solder on the board header pins. They are super susceptible to cold solder joints. I you should do that to all the boards.

Have a look at the bulletproofing thread for other things that should be done. https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-bulletproofing-williams-system-6

#4 2 years ago
Quoted from Schwaggs:

For the sound board, you should reflow the solder on the board header pins. They are super susceptible to cold solder joints. I you should do that to all the boards.
Have a look at the bulletproofing thread for other things that should be done. https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-bulletproofing-williams-system-6

So here is the sound board. Looks like it’s been recapped and poorly reflowed the pins. On at least 1 connector. A couple of pins looks are soldered together and looking at the paths may not be a problem but it’s not pretty. I’ll try reflowing remaining pins. Can someone confirm correct dipswitch setting for speech and sound?

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#5 2 years ago

I redid the power supply as well and a few sounds that were not there before seem to be back but still finicky on if any sound plays. Some sounds seem glitched. Errors seem to happen when ball passes through the fire lanes

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#6 2 years ago

ChrisHibler do you see anything that stands out as wrong? I’m fine to remove components but I am very new at the logic of this era of board sets

It should be note that using the test button triggers no speech but does cycle through sounds without any pause. During gameplay, if the sound does activate, the music seems to play as normal and when some sound effects are triggered the correct sound plays and when others are triggered a high pitched noise plays in place of what should be a sound and then music resumes. Sometimes triggering this sound effect stops all music from playing and the game goes silent.

#7 2 years ago

Confirmed after watching others sound test that mine is not functioning as expected. It will play through all of the sounds as expected but when it comes time to play where the speech should be, it immediately starts the sound test over. This makes me think either something is jumpered wrong or the speech roms may be bad as it’s not even attempting to play speech

#8 2 years ago

To enable sounds and speech, both switches should be on. Might be worth rocking them back and forth a couple times to make sure they are making contact.

#9 2 years ago

Do you have some new .156 header pins you can use to replace those? You still have some suspicious joints.

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#10 2 years ago
Quoted from Schwaggs:

To enable sounds and speech, both switches should be on. Might be worth rocking them back and forth a couple times to make sure they are making contact.

Just figured this out on the one I'm restoring yesterday.

Attached, op's sound board with firepowerpinball.com's layout diagram.

firepowersoundswitch (resized).pngfirepowersoundswitch (resized).png
#11 2 years ago

I took the pics of the sound board before I reflowed anything. Flicking those switches seems to do nothing to the sound test. Still is not even attempt to play. The mixer pot on the rectangle board is working so I know that the main sound board is detecting the other board connected. I’m not sure if it’s a corrupted rom or not as the game doesn’t even attempt to play speech during the test still

#12 2 years ago

So there is no pause in the sound test where the voices should be? It immediately repeats the sound test? Assuming yes

So it looks like your board is jumpered correctly. If it wasn’t, the balance pot wouldn’t work.

Since there is no pause where the voices should be, we can assume the main board can’t detect the voice board. Could be bad connection between the boards. Wrong or defective voice ROMs or bad rom on the main board, bad PIA, bad switches.

Those switches set inputs on the PIA. Can you check that they are correctly setting the PIA inputs high or low?

Alternatively, you could just replace the PIA since it is an AMI brand. They are have a notoriously bad failure rate.

A bad pia could also cause incorrect sounds to be played. Or it might be caused by bad connection between the driver board and the sound board.

#13 2 years ago
Quoted from Schwaggs:

So there is no pause in the sound test where the voices should be? It immediately repeats the sound test? Assuming yes
So it looks like your board is jumpered correctly. If it wasn’t, the balance pot wouldn’t work.
Since there is no pause where the voices should be, we can assume the main board can’t detect the voice board. Could be bad connection between the boards. Wrong or defective voice ROMs or bad rom on the main board, bad PIA, bad switches.
Those switches set inputs on the PIA. Can you check that they are correctly setting the PIA inputs high or low?
Alternatively, you could just replace the PIA since it is an AMI brand. They are have a notoriously bad failure rate.
A bad pia could also cause incorrect sounds to be played. Or it might be caused by bad connection between the driver board and the sound board.

Yes, there is no pause for speech I’ll look into those components.

#14 2 years ago

Bad chip sockets? R & R the chips in sockets as a leg may have lost a good connection. Sometimes it can be this simple

#15 2 years ago

I don't remember what the software does if it can't find the ROMs on the speech board.
Normally, a jumper on the sound board bypasses (installed) or loops the speech board in (cut).
I can see that the jumper is cut on your sound board.

The chip sockets on some FirePower speech boards were the craptastic ScanBe sockets. If your board has those sockets, they should be replaced as step one.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.ChrisHiblerPinball.com/Contact
http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

#16 2 years ago
Quoted from Jmckune:

Confirmed after watching others sound test that mine is not functioning as expected. It will play through all of the sounds as expected but when it comes time to play where the speech should be, it immediately starts the sound test over. This makes me think either something is jumpered wrong or the speech roms may be bad as it’s not even attempting to play speech

No Speech:
Check sockets on the speech board, check for tarnished legs on the speech software chips, Check for a damaged /broken ribbon cable,replace the software.

Still no speech?
Suspect corrupt PIA IC 10
Pin 19 is Speech Clock signal
PIn 39 controls Speech data either signals can be missing while board can produce sounds without them.

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