(Topic ID: 183591)

Firepower- No Sound, Only Voice- Solved

By Shredso

7 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

  • 15 posts
  • 7 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 7 years ago by Shredso
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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#1 7 years ago

I have a project Firepower with a slew of issues. I've been working on this particular issue for a few hours and I think it's time to call on the experts. The sound board that came with the game was sold as broken. I bought another board that was advertised as working. It was not tested. I transferred the speech card and ROM to the supposed working board. Speech works in game as well as in test. There is no in game sound. If I ground the pins of 10J3 the only sound I get is voice. Here is what I've done so far.

Replaced ROM socket
Reflowed all of the header pins
Confirmed all jumpers were the same as the original board
Checked voltages- 5v was a little low 4.89, -13.67, +12.22
Pin 37 of CPU shows activity with the logic probe

The ROM appears to be original with a factory label. (SOUND ROM 3). I put it in my burner and it verified. Here is the odd part, I tested it as a 2716, not a 2516. Not sure why it verified. This part of the tech I'm a bit blurry on.

Thanks!

#2 7 years ago

Have you adjusted the mixing pot?

#3 7 years ago
Quoted from zacaj:

Have you adjusted the mixing pot?

I have the pot on the speech board at about half as well as the cabinet pot.

#4 7 years ago
Quoted from Shredso:

Speech works in game as well as in test. There is no in game sound. If I ground the pins of 10J3 the only sound I get is voice.

The way you phrased your testing, leaves an opening for this question: Do the sfx (not speech) work on the soundboard self-test?

If you have SFX in self-test then the problem lies between the MPU and the sound board. The SFX calls are made by solenoid drives in the MPU.

If no SFX in self-test, you probably have sound/speech board issues.

When I went through rebuilding my FP wreck, I had the opposite problem: sfx but no speech, and problems with the speech board would kill both. Which is generally the most typical issue with FP. If you've never heard sfx, it could be a problem with the op-amp 1458 chips on the speech board. IIRC, these are typical failure points and it's possible for the failure to be in such a way that one or both functions may be affected (sound but no speech / speech but no sound / neither / both are too quiet). Easy test if you have a known good speech card, try swapping it over.

FWIW my sound ROMS were also original and kinda sorta briefly worked, but I banged my head with troubleshooting until I replaced them with good new replacements. I guess the originals were just too flaky. Also had to chuck the RN-brand sockets on my boards. Things got easier to fix after that.

Pinwiki has a decent section on Williams Sys3-7 sound troubleshooting, you should check it out!

#5 7 years ago

I kind of assumed no sfx meant an issue on the main sound board. I guess this was not a good assumption. I disconnected the speech board and my sfx were present. I will check out the usual suspects (sockets, cold solder joints) on the speech board and report back.

#6 7 years ago

I got one on eBay now. I had sound ALL the time but speech was flakey. I reseat the ribbon connector many times finally got the ribbon cable twisted the right way and it worked flawlessly. I then found that a replacement was made for both. I bought them cause with a brand new Backglass I don't want to remove anymore. I figure the ribbon connector needs to be replaced. Which I'm including a hard to find NOS one with that auction.

#7 7 years ago

I replaced IC2 on the speech board. I found LM741 locally which I thought was a suitable replacement. I was excited to hear sound when I powered back up, but the speech is now super quiet. Even with the mixing pot all the way down, you can barely hear it. Is the LM741 not the right part, or is there more to my problem?

#8 7 years ago

I decided to replace IC3 because it's the same chip and I bought extras. With a fresh LM741 installed it deleted speech all together. I reinstalled the old 1458 and went back to quiet speech. I'm guessing my part isn't compatible?

#9 7 years ago
Quoted from Shredso:

I decided to replace IC3 because it's the same chip and I bought extras. With a fresh LM741 installed it deleted speech all together. I reinstalled the old 1458 and went back to quiet speech. I'm guessing my part isn't compatible?

from what I can tell the 1458 is a dual op amp and the 741 isn't compatible because it's a single. Can anyone confirm this?

#10 7 years ago
Quoted from Shredso:

from what I can tell the 1458 is a dual op amp and the 741 isn't compatible because it's a single. Can anyone confirm this?

Correct. You need a MC1458P. I get that kind of stuff from Great Plains Electronics.

#11 7 years ago
Quoted from mwsmith:

Correct. You need a MC1458P. I get that kind of stuff from Great Plains Electronics.

I had a Great Plains order I put together early in the week. Waited until the weekend when the checkout was supposed to be back open and it's still disabled. Something about long hours on his normal job. I hope he reopens soon!

2 weeks later
#12 7 years ago

I finally got the correct chips. Replaced both. With board plugged in, I get voice only. With voice board unplugged I get perfect sound. I'll probably replace all the sockets next. I hope it isn't the stupid ribbon cable.

#13 7 years ago

Might be a dumb question, but are you sure the DIP switches on your sound board are in the right positions?
It sounds odd that simply unplugging the speech board makes the sound suddenly work. If I'm not mistaken, you SHOULD have to change the DIPs to make that change, because the analog sound originates on the sound board, then goes to the speech board to get blended at the pot, then back to the main sound board for amplification. Simply unplugging the speech board should not be able to re-route the analog sound by itself.

Just a thought,
Jeff

#14 7 years ago

I believe the speech was an option the buyer could purchase or not, so it should work without the speech card.

If you want to try a systematic approach,

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/black-knight-sound-board-repair

might help.

#15 7 years ago

I know I double checked the jumpers. At least I double checked W2-W13. W1 was hiding up top and I missed it. Stupid mistake. Cutting out W1 gives me sound and voice. I'm not sure if the sounds are all correct, but I'm a step closer.

I have a 2nd sound board as well. That one has w1 cut out but does nothing. I will use that troubleshooting guide to hopefully get that one up and running. Thanks for the resource.

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