(Topic ID: 241273)

Firepower help please.

By crujones4life

5 years ago


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Topic Stats

  • 39 posts
  • 12 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 years ago by pindel
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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#1 5 years ago

Have a Firepower I bought a while back just now getting to it. When I power on all I get is some GI lights. Flippers flip even without starting a game. Nothing on any of the displays except a faint orange glow under the first comma on each display that can be see if you look at them from the side. Won't coin up. Won't start a game. 2 red lights lit solid on MPU. Battery holder has corrosion. No damage that I can see on boards. These boards were repaired at some point in the past because there are tags and stickers on every board. Fuse to solenoids is blown.

So...where do I start? I am thinking with trying to get the game to start? Would like to see the displays working too...

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#2 5 years ago

Pinwiki will have some troubleshooting progression. The two LEDs should come on then go out. Until you get that, the board isn't booting, it's locked up.

#3 5 years ago

please ensure that the following on the powerboard.

1.Check for correct voltage with header removed.

2.Remove the PCB and resolder the connector
3. Check the wires and push them into the connector.

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#4 5 years ago

When was it serviced, recently or in the 90s?

#5 5 years ago
Quoted from Schwaggs:

When was it serviced, recently or in the 90s?

Sometime in the last several years. Can't remember what the guy told me. I forgot who serviced them but the stickers are on all the boards. I will try to remember to post some pics when I get another chance to look at it. Also my damn meter died and I keep forgetting to buy a 9volt battery. Been busy lately.

#6 5 years ago

Do you have original boards?

#7 5 years ago
Quoted from Aniraf:

Do you have original boards?

Yes

#8 5 years ago

Yes, please post some decent pictures of the boards and check for the voltages that drocelot suggested.

1 week later
#9 4 years ago

Here are the boards...

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#10 4 years ago

3J5 left to right
-102.5v
101.6v
4.8v

#11 4 years ago

3J6 left to right
11.9v
5v
5v
5v
5v

#12 4 years ago

Those look great!

Measure the voltages on the test points on the CPU board. Need to see if the power supply voltages are making it reliably to the CPU board.

Remove the screws on the driver board (lower board in your first picture). Carefully pull the 2 boards apart and press them back together. The long white translucent connector between the CPU and driver boards is the "40 pin connector", notorious for causing issues. Pulling it apart and putting it back together cleans the contact points and may be the cause of the problem.

Are the contact points in the battery holder rusted or corroded? They look rusted in the picture but it is hard to tell.

#13 4 years ago

Forgive my ignorance on this but the test points are all the raised metal cylinders/nipples right? Positive to test point and negative to any ground is OK? Don't want to mess anything up.

I think it is just rust I will check when I get off tonight.

#14 4 years ago
Quoted from crujones4life:

Forgive my ignorance on this but the test points are all the raised metal cylinders/nipples right? Positive to test point and negative to any ground is OK? Don't want to mess anything up.
I think it is just rust I will check when I get off tonight.

Yep, that’s right. The tiny metal studs are the test points. You can put the negative meter lead on the ground braid.

#15 4 years ago

Did you have NVRAM installed? Can't reliably tell from the pics of your boards. But if do not have fresh batteries in that battery holder the game will not boot.

#16 4 years ago
Quoted from Schwaggs:

Yep, that’s right. The tiny metal studs are the test points. You can put the negative meter lead on the ground braid.

Excellent. Thank you.

#17 4 years ago
Quoted from nick_k:

Did you have NVRAM installed? Can't reliably tell from the pics of your boards. But if do not have fresh batteries in that battery holder the game will not boot.

No NVRAM. Battery holder is shot. It won't boot without batteries? Feck! No way around this?

#18 4 years ago
Quoted from crujones4life:

No NVRAM. Battery holder is shot. It won't boot without batteries? Feck! No way around this?

The game should boot to audits without batteries. Static numbers in the displays.

You can try and do the cheat boot, just in case the problem is with your displays. With the coin door open, turn the game on. Then very fast, turn the power switch off and back on. Attract mode should start (playfield inserts flashing). You may have to try it several times to get it to work. Based on your original description (both LEDs on), I don't think this will work.

With the game on, press the diagnostic button on the CPU board and tell us what the LEDs do.

#19 4 years ago

Once you get it booting you will need to look at these areas.

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#20 4 years ago

Ok so while reading up online on my issues all of a sudden my game started playing sounds then a few minutes later both LEDs on MPU went out. Seem to stay off regularly now with power off and on. Could not get to go into attract mode. Still nothing on displays. Diagnostic button does nothing.

Ok...now they are randomly flashing on and off together...

10v measured at 12v test point and 4.7v at 5v test point on MPU.

#21 4 years ago

All kinds of weird stuff is happening now. I turned it on a minute ago in some more sound started playing and zeros were flashing across most if not all the displays and then they displays stopped working again and it just keeps making a some firepower sounds. This is after I removed the driver board and put it back on the MPU.

#22 4 years ago

The led lights blink faster when sounds play faster and slower when sounds play slower...

#23 4 years ago

Great game! Best luck getting it going!

#24 4 years ago

Ok so this time I hit diagnostic button sound stopped and bottom led is on and top led is out.

And now only the top light is lit...

Well after several minutes of this I have learned exactly nothing...lol

Pulled and reseated IC 13 14 17 20...currently just plays 2 tone sounds when powered on. Sometimes displays flash (during fast flash of LEDs and fast sounds) and sometimes they don't (slower flash of LEDs and slower sound).

#25 4 years ago

So I am going to pull the driver and mpu and reflow some solder to see if anything changes. Since I am getting power to boards and sound works problem probably lies in mpu/driver right? New board combo probably get me flipping? I am not a fan of ordering several components, replacing, and crossing my fingers...lol.

#26 4 years ago

You need to figure out why the voltage at the test points is so low. 4.7v is much too low to boot reliably. I think you are on the right track with reflowing the solder to the header pins. Make sure you do it on all the boards (PS, sound, driver, cpu)

#27 4 years ago

In all the videos by tnt, Todd mentions that the 2 top screws in the row of the 40 pin connector, shouldn’t be used to hold down the board. Not sure if that’s causing your issues, but he has stated Williams always advised to leave those 2 out for system 6/7.

#28 4 years ago
Quoted from topkat:

In all the videos by tnt, Todd mentions that the 2 top screws in the row of the 40 pin connector, shouldn’t be used to hold down the board. Not sure if that’s causing your issues, but he has stated Williams always advised to leave those 2 out for system 6/7.

They are actually out right now...

#29 4 years ago

Just quickly scanning here.. If I may chime in.. I agree 4.7 volts is a bit too small for reliable operation, so that should be tracked down.

In addition to that you can use my test ROMs to help you verify your CPU, RAM, and 5101 chips as well as everything else to make help you get your game healthy again. You can download and use them for free here: http://pincoder.ca

You will need at least one 2816 or 2716 eprom chip and a programmer to run the tests, but they are better diagnostics that the built-in ones that come with the game. Specifically, the Williams RAM and CMOS tests are known to give false positives.

In addition, you can disconnect and remove the driver board and power it on to see if it's causing you any grief (ie voltage drops). You should still see normal activity on the displays. re-check the voltage from 4.7 and see if it has changed at all.

#30 4 years ago
Quoted from pincoder:

Just quickly scanning here.. If I may chime in.. I agree 4.7 volts is a bit too small for reliable operation, so that should be tracked down.
In addition to that you can use my test ROMs to help you verify your CPU, RAM, and 5101 chips as well as everything else to make help you get your game healthy again. You can download and use them for free here: http://pincoder.ca
You will need at least one 2816 or 2716 eprom chip and a programmer to run the tests, but they are better diagnostics that the built-in ones that come with the game. Specifically, the Williams RAM and CMOS tests are known to give false positives.
In addition, you can disconnect and remove the driver board and power it on to see if it's causing you any grief (ie voltage drops). You should still see normal activity on the displays. re-check the voltage from 4.7 and see if it has changed at all.

Thanks for all the great info. Hoping to find time soon to work on it again. I will report back soon.

#31 4 years ago

Maybe cut off the chip I circled earlier. With a hole blown out of it like that it may be causing a power drain on the 5 volt line.

#32 4 years ago
Quoted from GRUMPY:

Maybe cut off the chip I circled earlier. With a hole blown out of it like that it may be causing a power drain on the 5 volt line.

I will remove the driver board first and power on to see what happens. That transistor looks newer I was thinking maybe that burnt spot was older and the transistor was replaced. But I will keep that area in mind moving forward. Thanks!

#33 4 years ago
Quoted from crujones4life:

I will remove the driver board first and power on to see what happens. That transistor looks newer I was thinking maybe that burnt spot was older and the transistor was replaced. But I will keep that area in mind moving forward. Thanks!

Oh you said chip...lol

1 week later
#34 4 years ago

Reflowed so much solder...this is what I get.

#35 4 years ago

Looks like it's resetting shortly after booting up. check your reset circuit and the power quality coming into the MPU board.

#36 4 years ago

Shortly after the video both LEDs on MPU went out, nothing on displays, sounds stopped.

#37 4 years ago

I had somewhat similar issues w/ my Firepower when I first got it. I replaced all the headers and connectors that make up the 40 pin connection and swapped out the "Scanbe" sockets with SIP sockets. I replaced all the capacitors on the power supply too. I never did isolate and correct the problem preventing it from booting up and just threw in the towel by buying a Rottendog board. Still no regrets with that decision. The game has been rock solid since. Just an option to keep in mind or find someone that can repair both your MPU/driver boards if you get fed up. That's where I ended up; I was really hoping to troubleshoot and revive the original boards (no battery corrosion and they looked barely used) but in the end, the Rottendog solution worked for me.

#38 4 years ago
Quoted from rlbohon3:

I had somewhat similar issues w/ my Firepower when I first got it. I replaced all the headers and connectors that make up the 40 pin connection and swapped out the "Scanbe" sockets with SIP sockets. I replaced all the capacitors on the power supply too. I never did isolate and correct the problem preventing it from booting up and just threw in the towel by buying a Rottendog board. Still no regrets with that decision. The game has been rock solid since. Just an option to keep in mind or find someone that can repair both your MPU/driver boards if you get fed up. That's where I ended up; I was really hoping to troubleshoot and revive the original boards (no battery corrosion and they looked barely used) but in the end, the Rottendog solution worked for me.

I will most likely be doing the exact same thing. Going to pull the power board and look at it/reflow solder put it back and cross my fingers. If no go buying all new boards including power supply. I only paid $200 for the game so not worried about $380 for new MPU/Driver/Power Supply.

#39 4 years ago

I've repaired a ton of these boards. What you see happens all the time. It is usually 40 pin and scanbe sockets with the occasional rom and processor chips gone bad. I have a lot of boards to play with to problem solve but for you, buying a rottendog or working board set is a no brainer. These boards are a total time suck. I haven't had a problem fixing them all but you need test equipment. So unless your looking to enjoy years of Board repair it's better to just buy good ones. I would think you could exchange yours for a good set for around 200. Most likely if you reset all the socketed chips and the 40 pin connection it will work but not for long. Hans at http://www.siegecraft.us sells everything except the probe. He also sells a board that eliminates the need to use the 6 Rom sockets as well. Since your 40 pin looks clean there is a good chance you could get it to work by pulling the roms and putting in the Williams Single EPROM adapter from Siegecraft for 20.00.
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