(Topic ID: 324624)

Firepower Combo Rom - MPU Crashing

By perry1670

1 year ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

You

Linked Games

Topic Gallery

View topic image gallery

PXL_20221026_193721480.jpg
PXL_20221026_193734551.jpg
PXL_20221026_193745147.jpg
PXL_20221026_193752840.jpg

#1 1 year ago

I have been working on a few System 6 MPUs for a couple Firepower machines I'm rehabbing and am having a similar failure across all of them (3 to be exact). So at least the issue is consistent across MPUs.

Each board will boot fine and go into attract mode without issue. I can go into audits and check coils/switches/etc. and everything is good. When I hit the start button, the ball will kick into the shooter lane and that's when the displays start displaying garbage, and shortly there after the board completely crashes. I've been able to duplicate this same behavior without power to the coils, so it is unrelated to the ball being kicked into the shooter lane or a coil firing. I have had this same issues across multiple (modified) MPUs and multiple Solenoid Boards.

When I depress the Diagnostic switch on the MPU it does show a PROM fault (Bottom LED is lit).

Per the Combo Rom instructions I have installed two 1n4148 diodes (band up) at jumpers J3 and J4, installed the jumper from from IC14 pin 21 to IC30 pin 14. Cut the traces on both sides of IC14 Pin 21 and verified that it is disconnected on both sides and installed the 4.7K ohm resistor across pin 20 and pin 24. Note: I have used 1/2 watt resistors as that's what I have on hand but that shouldn't matter.

New EPROMS, Sockets, etc. I thought maybe it was some faulty RAM and have changed out the 6810s and 5101 with the same results.

Maybe I'm missing another jumper someplace? The board pictured did have some previous work done but otherwise it's in good shape.

Usually these issue winds up being some silly mistake on my end which is likely the case with this as well but I'm currently out of ideas so any help is appreciated.

#2 1 year ago
PXL_20221026_193721480.jpgPXL_20221026_193721480.jpgPXL_20221026_193734551.jpgPXL_20221026_193734551.jpgPXL_20221026_193745147.jpgPXL_20221026_193745147.jpgPXL_20221026_193752840.jpgPXL_20221026_193752840.jpg
#3 1 year ago
Quoted from perry1670:

I have been working on a few System 6 MPUs for a couple Firepower machines I'm rehabbing and am having a similar failure across all of them (3 to be exact). So at least the issue is consistent across MPUs.
Each board will boot fine and go into attract mode without issue. I can go into audits and check coils/switches/etc. and everything is good. When I hit the start button, the ball will kick into the shooter lane and that's when the displays start displaying garbage, and shortly there after the board completely crashes. I've been able to duplicate this same behavior without power to the coils, so it is unrelated to the ball being kicked into the shooter lane or a coil firing. I have had this same issues across multiple (modified) MPUs and multiple Solenoid Boards.
When I depress the Diagnostic switch on the MPU it does show a PROM fault (Bottom LED is lit).
Per the Combo Rom instructions I have installed two 1n4148 diodes (band up) at jumpers J3 and J4, installed the jumper from from IC14 pin 21 to IC30 pin 14. Cut the traces on both sides of IC14 Pin 21 and verified that it is disconnected on both sides and installed the 4.7K ohm resistor across pin 20 and pin 24. Note: I have used 1/2 watt resistors as that's what I have on hand but that shouldn't matter.
New EPROMS, Sockets, etc. I thought maybe it was some faulty RAM and have changed out the 6810s and 5101 with the same results.
Maybe I'm missing another jumper someplace? The board pictured did have some previous work done but otherwise it's in good shape.
Usually these issue winds up being some silly mistake on my end which is likely the case with this as well but I'm currently out of ideas so any help is appreciated.

Can you please clarify: when you say you get the same result with three different boards, are they all being tested in the same cabinet? Or do you see this in different machines too?

I'm guessing the former, in which case it seems possible something in the cabinet could be a culprit. Granted, if you've performed the same work on all three boards and they've never been found to work correctly either, it could be either. But it'd be good if you can confirm one way or the other. And if you've got a second cabinet you could try the boards in, that'd obviously be a good step to do. If you've already done that, please mention that as well.

I don't personally have any ideas, but I do look forward to see what transpires here, and I think that if you can provide those extra details, it could help others help you get to a solution more quickly.

#4 1 year ago

pete_d - All three boards in the same cabinet. I've tested an after market board set (MPU and Driver) that I keep handy (Kohouts/Pinball PCB) for testing and it was able to boot and play fine so my assumption is it isn't the cabinet. To that end, I"ll test the modified boards in another cabinet and see what transpires.

#5 1 year ago

Try these free test ROMs:

https://pincoder.ca

They are better than the factory diagnostics and will help you troubleshoot the whole game.

If you don't have a programmer and chips you can purchase this adapter:

https://pincoder.ca/index.php/2020/07/10/adapter-2020-06-23-0506/

While I haven't tested them myself in a firepower combo-rom setup, and if I remember correctly, SteveNZ has used them in a combo-rom setup. They should work just fine and will help you determine why the boards are not booting..

Let me know how it goes

#6 1 year ago

The only thing I can see in the mod work you’ve done is that the fat trace may not be completely severed.

What about…
…did the board boot before the mods?


Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
Http://chrishiblerpinball.com/contact
http://www.PinWiki.com/ - The new place for pinball repair info

#7 1 year ago

I was able to test in another cabinet and had the same results so it isn't a cabinet issue.

Prior to doing the mods I verified the boards in a factory test fixture and they all worked fine. They boot and pass each one of the tests (Switches, displays, solenoids, lamps,etc). They will still boot the Williams test program when installed and pass the tests with the modifications done.

Just something about U14 it isn't liking. So what I'll do next is use one the Rom for U14 provided from Pincoder and verify it's reading/writing things alright and see what happens. I've never actually used this test so it'll be interesting to see and I appreciate the reminder it exists!

pincoder - Your ROMs are extremely helpful for diagnosing problems and can't thank you enough for releasing them. I actually use yours (along with Leons) to start testing/repair before I even get this far.

ChrisHibler - I really hoped that was the issue but I buzzed out the traces and they are not connected. I also verified the pull-up resistor isn't shorting anything as well.

#8 1 year ago
Quoted from perry1670:

pincoder - Your ROMs are extremely helpful for diagnosing problems and can't thank you enough for releasing them. I actually use yours (along with Leons) to start testing/repair before I even get this far.

Excellent! I am glad you are also finding them useful Let us know how the U14 test goes.. you must be using an older version of Pincoder ROMs - I wasn't sure how useful the ROM tests would be and since they took up a lot of real-estate on the adapter I decided to remove them from the current releases. Perhaps I should consider putting them back in..?

#9 1 year ago

Oh yeah, I was in on some of your original testing so I still am using the outdated stuff, heck you hadn't come out with the Adapter yet. Man has it been that long?! Stupid Covid screwing with my mental timeline.

At any rate I'm curious as well as I haven't ever used that specific test yet so hopefully tonight and will report back.

#10 1 year ago

Update: I tried burning two different Images (one set of 2716, and then doubled up for a set of 2732). Placed the 2732 in I17 and I14 - Bottom LED flashed indicating failure. Anytime a 2716 was placed into I17 the displays would display 654321 through each display and It wouldn't give the LED flash pattern as outlined in the documentation. I tried placing a 2732 in I17 and a 2716 in I14 and the bottom LED flashed indicating failure.

I think I'll try to undo the 2732 modifications on one of the boards and see how that goes.

My apologies, this post is a bit confusing with all the numbers.

#11 1 year ago
Quoted from perry1670:

Oh yeah, I was in on some of your original testing so I still am using the outdated stuff, heck you hadn't come out with the Adapter yet

Oh that's great! Yes it has been that long!

Off the top of my head, I don't think the old 12-ROM-ICxx tests would work on the combo-ROM mods as they are geared to test specific ROM address ranges. The rest of the Pincoder ROMs should work fine because they don't access those address ranges at all.

I'd need to generate a special 12-ROM-IC14.bin test with a special PATT4096.bin file to go with it. Since that's not within the scope of this thread PM me and I'll put something together for you and you can see if it works. If it's useful for the combo-rom modification I'll include it in the next release.

#12 1 year ago
Quoted from perry1670:

Update: I tried burning two different Images (one set of 2716, and then doubled up for a set of 2732). Placed the 2732 in I17 and I14 - Bottom LED flashed indicating failure. Anytime a 2716 was placed into I17 the displays would display 654321 through each display and It wouldn't give the LED flash pattern as outlined in the documentation. I tried placing a 2732 in I17 and a 2716 in I14 and the bottom LED flashed indicating failure.
I think I'll try to undo the 2732 modifications on one of the boards and see how that goes.
My apologies, this post is a bit confusing with all the numbers.

Try this (with the combo-ROM mods in place):

1) Download https://pincoder.ca/ccn/roms/PATT4096.bin, burn it to a 2732, and place it in the IC14 socket.
2) Then via the IC17 socket:
----> Run the Pincoder 12-rom-IC14-2048 test
----> Run the Pincoder 12-rom-IC22-512 test
----> Run the Pincoder 12-rom-IC26-512 test

3) Burn the PATT2048.bin to a 2716 and place it in the IC20 socket
4) Then via the IC17 socket:
----> Run the Pincoder 12-rom-IC20-2048 test

Note that if all four tests pass you *should* be able to boot your game with the board mods you made. However, this is not a perfect test because this method does not guarantee that the modifications made to the address bus pins are correct.

A guarantee can only be obtained by creating a new test rom (ie. 12-rom-IC14-FPC-PATT4096.bin) and a new PATT4096.bin image. Again, PM me if you'd like to assist in testing such an image for me

PS: The 12-rom-ICxx tests should not be doing anything with the displays. They should remain blank. Perhaps you weren't running the correct test..

#13 1 year ago

Next Update: I went back and un-modified a board and was able to boot a ROM set for Gorgar. Re-modified for the 2732 combo ROM at IC14. Ran pincoder tests via message above. The first 3 passed however the 4th test failed. I'm not entirely sure that I Burned the correct ROM images on the final test.

Final Test - I burned 12-rom-IC20-PATT2048 onto two 2716s and placed them in IC17 and IC20. I do not have a file named 12-rom-IC20-2048 so maybe that is the cause of failure. Since this ran Gorgar earlier I'm surprised that it didn't pass the final test although, again, I'm not sure I got the ROMs correct.

Yeah I'm pretty sure I didn't pay close enough attention on my earlier tests, hence the weird numbers in the displays.

#14 1 year ago

For the 4th test use:

IC17: 12-rom-IC20-PATT2048.bin
IC20: PATT2048.bin

If all 4 pass and you still cant boot a game then we have a false positive (as suspected).

I'll create two new .bin files in a beta download and you can try all 4 tests again. Might take a day or two before I can find the time..

Craig

#15 1 year ago

All 4 tests passed - Found the file up a page in the directory - sorry about that. But hey we passed all the tests, probably first time in my life

On the positive the board now boots and I can play a game so great success!! I wish I could definitively pinpoint what that issue was but it was a combination of double checking IE: Redoing, my previous work and changing out the 5101 CMOS. I have terrible luck with that stupid chip. I don't know about anyone else but i can test it and it'll be fine, put it in a game and all kinds of trash comes up. Who knows.

At any rate I'll mark this one as successful and take a look at the other boards and see what I can find.

Thanks all for the advice/input.

#16 1 year ago

Don't know how to attach to this thread but allow me to try:
I have an issue with my Firepower that I need help with.
I have two display digits that are constantly flickering and displaying garbage. To be exact they are the tens digits on players 1 and 2 only. I have scoped the paths for strobe 5 from the cpu down to the main display board and all seems normal. Started tracing from cpu jacks 6 and 7 down to the MDU thru C2 and C3 and gave up after that. My logic tells me that strobe 5 is hitting players 1 and 3 only but after that I don't see any logic that is unique to players 1 and 3. Any thoughts on this would help and sorry for not posting this correctly.

Promoted items from the Pinside Marketplace
From: $ 9.00
Boards
KAHR.US Circuits
Boards
From: $ 90.00
Tools
Pincoder Store
Tools
From: $ 1.00
Playfield - Other
Rocket City Pinball
Other
1,200
Machine - For Sale
Allentown, PA
From: $ 1.25
Playfield - Other
Rocket City Pinball
Other
$ 52.99
Cabinet - Shooter Rods
Pinball Shark
Shooter rods
$ 44.99
Cabinet - Shooter Rods
Pinball Shark
Shooter rods

Reply

Wanna join the discussion? Please sign in to reply to this topic.

Hey there! Welcome to Pinside!

Donate to Pinside

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run without any 3rd-party banners or ads, thanks to the support from our visitors? Please consider a donation to Pinside and get anext to your username to show for it! Or better yet, subscribe to Pinside+!


This page was printed from https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/firepower-combo-rom-mpu-crashing?hl=pincoder and we tried optimising it for printing. Some page elements may have been deliberately hidden.

Scan the QR code on the left to jump to the URL this document was printed from.