(Topic ID: 90578)

Firepower Coil Fuse Blowing

By J_Cutler

9 years ago


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  • 45 posts
  • 6 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 9 years ago by J_Cutler
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

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#1 9 years ago

Need your help guys. I was rebuilding my pop bumpers. The last one I did, I made a stupid mistake and installed the coil in backwards. Which means when I re-soldered the wires back on they were flip flopped. Started the pin and of course the pop I rebuilt wasn't working, other 3 did then stopped. Solenoid Fuse in back box was blown and I changed it and turned it on again and all coils stopped working. That is when I noticed I had the coil installed upside down and wires were backwards. Reinstalled and wired correctly but now the solenoid fuse blows as soon as I turn on pin or start a game. All coils dead but the flippers. As I'm pretty new to all this, could you guys give me some guidance on what to do next?
Thanks, Jack

#2 9 years ago

Diode?

#3 9 years ago

The one on the coil you mean? Is there a way to check it without removing it from coil?

#4 9 years ago

You probably blew the driver (and maybe the pre-driver) transistor when you hooked it up backwards.

Got a meter?

#5 9 years ago

Got a meter. Not to good with it. Not much experience vid. Something you can explain easy to me? lol

#6 9 years ago

LOL i have had fairly decent results with phone help lately. But i think Vid is a fast typist. Good luck you are in good hands.

#7 9 years ago
Quoted from J_Cutler:

Something you can explain easy to me? lol

Meter in DIODE mode.

Black lead on center tab of transistor (there is a hole in the center tab - it's right on top of the transistor).

Red lead tests each outside leg.

Readings should be between .4 and .6

If you reverse the set up and put the red lead on the center tab, the outer legs should read 0.

Test your work by checking other transistors around the bad one.

#8 9 years ago

I have replaced a broken transistor on the driver board that was broke and affected the left flipper. Ran across that by accident. I can do the soldering. Just not to proficient with the meter on what settings to use and which items to check. I know vid is the best. Has been a big help to me already before.

#9 9 years ago

Thanks vid1900. Will try checking tomorrow. Do this with power on or off? On my Firepower any idea which transistors I need to check? or all of them until I find the bad one or ones? What reading would a bad one be?
Sorry if I'm a pain with all the questions.. Jack

#10 9 years ago
Quoted from J_Cutler:

Do this with power on or off

OFF

Quoted from J_Cutler:

On my Firepower any idea which transistors I need to check?

Which bumper is bad?

#11 9 years ago

Lower left pop right above the left stand up targets.

#12 9 years ago

Q4 - TIP102

#13 9 years ago

Thanks vid your the best... Will let you know tomorrow after I check.

#14 9 years ago

meter.jpgmeter.jpg
Now vid1900 I'm really confused. If I had my meter set correctly, I read Q4 and 1 leg reads 587, other leg 007. Thing is, I read 1/2 dozen more and they all read about the same. I did this power off. Boards still in pin and all cables connected...

Jack

P.S. Yes this is one of those cheap 7 function Harbor Freight Meters

#15 9 years ago

Well, if they all read the same then sounds like you are OK. Do you have a new battery in it?

How about when you reverse the leads and put the red lead through the hole in the tab and the black lead to the outside legs?

#16 9 years ago

If you hooked up the coil backwards and sent current through it then no doubt for a fact.... The main transistor vid mentioned is dead, the diode across the coil is dead. Just fix that stuff first and see where you are.

If the coil locks on still you have more driver board issues.

#17 9 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Well, if they all read the same then sounds like you are OK. Do you have a new battery in it?
How about when you reverse the leads and put the red lead through the hole in the tab and the black lead to the outside legs?

Yes battery good vid. Actually the meter is new. I'm doing this with the boards still installed in the pin. The left leg read 007 right leg 583 Reverse leads red in hole reads 003 left leg. 783 right leg. Never get a zero reading. Does it make a difference that the boards are installed even though the power is off? Get these reading on all the surrounding transistors. Meter junk? All transistors junk? Without even hitting the start button, as soon as I turn on the power the 2.5 amp solenoid slow blow fuse pops

#18 9 years ago

On my above photo, do I have the meter set correctly for this?

#19 9 years ago
Quoted from J_Cutler:

On my above photo, do I have the meter set correctly for this?

Yes.

#20 9 years ago
Quoted from J_Cutler:

The left leg read 007 right leg 583 Reverse leads red in hole reads 003 left leg. 783 right leg. Never get a zero reading.

The meter is bad or all your transistors are bad - I'm putting my money on the meter being bad.

#21 9 years ago

Get yourself a real meter - one that beeps audibly in continuity mode.

The HF meters normally do in fact work, but they lack the above most used feature in any meter.

Never buy a meter than needs some weird 12v or LLR watch batteries - always check that it takes a normal 9v.

#22 9 years ago

Right vid. That's what I was thinking too. With the meter set as above photo, without the leads touching anything or each other it was reading 1.
Time to buy a new meter. This was the free one they were giving away last week. Maybe I will try the one they sell with the audible tone. Will get back to you when I pick one up. Thanks

#23 9 years ago

They do have a higher end model with the audible continuity mode.

#24 9 years ago

Vid, Do you also believe that the coil diode on that pop coil is blown? Also What diodes do the coils use?

#25 9 years ago

Replace the coil diode 1n4004 (2 cents)

Replace driver transistor TIP102 (40 cents)

Replace pre-driver transistor 2n4401 (10 cents)

Check coil with working meter and make sure it's 3 ohms or higher.

Turn game on but keep your finger on the switch, if coil locks on instantly, kill power.

#26 9 years ago

Okay will do. Will have to place order to PBL for Tip102's. Believe I have the In4004's and 2n4401's.
Just so I'm on track. As stated in my 1st post. All the coils quit working but the flipper coils because the fuse blows. So we still talking about the one coil that was wired backwards. Or now do I have to replace the diodes on all the coils?

#27 9 years ago
Quoted from J_Cutler:

P.S. Yes this is one of those cheap 7 function Harbor Freight Meters

i had one of those cheap ones from harbor freight too, worst meter i have ever seen. good tools will always make the job easier and you wont spend time chasing false readings. been there lol

#28 9 years ago
Quoted from J_Cutler:

So we still talking about the one coil that was wired backwards. Or now do I have to replace the diodes on all the coils?

Just the one coil you wired backwards need a new diode and transistors.

Get LOTS of those diodes and transistors, your going to need them as long as you own old pinball machines......

#29 9 years ago

Oh oh. Now I'm worried.. I happened to have a new TIP120 in a pkg. So I tried the HF meter on it. 438 on one leg, 630 on other leg. Reversed the leads. Both legs read 0. Does this mean I have a bunch of transistors blown? I mean it appears the meter is working according to the readings I got on the new transistor that was in the pkg.

#30 9 years ago

Unsolder the 'bad" transistor and test it out of the circuit.

#31 9 years ago

(cut the legs off, leaving enough leg to test the transistor, then latter you can remove each leg separately from the board)

#32 9 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

(cut the legs off, leaving enough leg to test the transistor, then latter you can remove each leg separately from the board)

Will do. Probably can't get to it until Wednesday. Placed an order with Pinball Life. Probably have by Thursday.

#33 9 years ago

Got the diode replaced on the coil and back installed in the playfield. Will remove the boards tomorrow and cut the transistor out and test it. Hopefully I get the order from Pinball Life on Thursday. I hate waiting for things. lol

#34 9 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

(cut the legs off, leaving enough leg to test the transistor, then latter you can remove each leg separately from the board)

Hi Vid.. Removed the Q4 Tip Transistor from the board. Test Readings. 002 - 576, Reversed 002 - 000. As of this morning, Pinball Life hasn't shipped Transistors yet.
Surrounding Tip102's tested good as per your instructions. 450-603 range & 0 both sides when reversed.
How do I test the 2N4401's? Black on center leg? And test like the Tip102's? Or different setting on meter and what should they test good at?
Thanks, Jack

#35 9 years ago

For the coils I switched me new meter to it's lowest Ohm setting of 200. I checked all 4 coils and the read 4.2 to 4.3 is this correct?

#36 9 years ago
Quoted from J_Cutler:

Removed the Q4 Tip Transistor from the board. Test Readings. 002 - 576, Reversed 002 - 000.

She's dead!

#37 9 years ago
Quoted from J_Cutler:

How do I test the 2N4401's?

RED lead to center leg.

BLACK on outside legs.

Should read between .4 and .6

(Anytime a TIP102 is killed, always replace the 2N4401 at the same time, if it's not dead, it's probably stressed anyway)

#38 9 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

RED lead to center leg.
BLACK on outside legs.
Should read between .4 and .6
(Anytime a TIP102 is killed, always replace the 2N4401 at the same time, if it's not dead, it's probably stressed anyway)

Thanks Vid as always.. Had some 4401's on hand and already replaced it without even checking old one. Now just waiting on the TIP102's to come. They were shipped yesterday. Illinois to Michigan should come fast.

#39 9 years ago

Checked all the other Tip102's and N4401's and are in spec.

#40 9 years ago

Vid1900, your the man!! Just got the parts today. Put in the TIP102, checked that it was good. Installed the boards back in. Turned on power. No coil lock, no blown fuse. Pushed start, viola! All slings and pops working just fine!
Thank you buddy, I can't thank you enough for all your help and patience that you have giving me to help me get through this. One more pop to rebuild and I should be good. I won't make that previous mistake again! That and I'm learning how to use my meter thanks to you. I did notice one of the previous pops is not scoring, but will check the switch for loose connection and a cleaning or adjustment. It will make going to work for the over night shift tonight much easier now that I know my pin is fixed. Thank you thank you thank you!
Jack

#41 9 years ago

Congrats on your repair!

#42 9 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Congrats on your repair!

Vid1900, looks like back to square one. Played two games today. last ball, the score display flashed. sound funny, so I cut power. Later today, turned on seemed ok. Looked down and saw ball in trough below the flippers that had not kicked up the shoot. Checked solenoid fuse was blown again. Changed fuse. Powered up, started game. noticed the LED displays went out again and left flipper was dead. All the coils seem to be working fine and fuse not blowing. Any idea what this new problem is? Should I pull the boards and start checking the transistors again? Should all the pre & driver transistors on the system 6 board test .4 - .6?
Jack

#43 9 years ago

Time for some detective work.

Check if EOS switch on flipper is grounding out to some other metal part.

Disconnect the sound card completely.

Pull on all coil diodes and see if any are cracked or crumble.

Check if pop switches are grounding out, or are on the wrong side of the yoke.

You can check transistors without pulling the boards, of course. Just kill power first!

#44 9 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Time for some detective work.
Check if EOS switch on flipper is grounding out to some other metal part.
Disconnect the sound card completely.
Pull on all coil diodes and see if any are cracked or crumble.
Check if pop switches are grounding out, or are on the wrong side of the yoke.
You can check transistors without pulling the boards, of course. Just kill power first!

Ok, I got the led displays to come back on. either a dirty or mis-seated molex cable. The left flipper come back on for 2 weak flips then quit again. I had replaced a pre-driver transistor for the left flipper before because I had noticed that a leg broke off when I touched it about 2 months ago. Does one of the molex cables on the driver board control the left flipper?
P.S. The one pop that wasn't scoring, the switch was on wrong side of yoke. lol

Sorry. just noticed 2J12 connector pin #2 is left flipper enable.

#45 9 years ago

All is resolved. Leds and flippers now working. Dirty connection on 2J12 cable. Cleaned it up and working fine again. Need to get that molex and connector replaced.
Thanks again Vid.

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