(Topic ID: 152286)

Firepower 7-digit display conversion

By Crater

8 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

  • 16 posts
  • 7 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 months ago by slochar
  • Topic is favorited by 5 Pinsiders

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#1 8 years ago

Well let's just get down to it...

I just got a Firepower, and I'm looking into what it takes to convert it to 7-digit displays. I found a lot of people who reference the following page for this conversion:

http://www.pinball4you.ch/okaegi/pro_d7f.html

From this page, it's somewhat difficult for me to really tell the specifics of what this person really did. First off, I'm wondering if anyone has had experience with this. If you have, I'm sort of wondering what supplies I would need:

1) What type of displays can be used?
2) Do I need to do any board modifications?
3) Any additional cables, etc??

For reference, I do find myself somewhat versed in circuitry. My education is in Physics and I used to teach analog circuits at a University. I realize this does not make me an electrical engineer, but I feel I have the background to learn what I need to. That being said, I'm also wondering if there is any literature that someone would recommend for projects such as this?

I am new to pinball modifications, and I feel like I'm missing some of the more historic context of these board designs. System 6 vs 6a vs 7, so if anyone wants to add some context for me here or point me in the right direction, I'd be very appreciative.

#2 8 years ago

Basically, it looks like the author removed the system 3-6 display boards. The display boards in that system have a master display which controls all the other displays. So that one master display has both the logic for controlling all the displays, in addition to a display embedded on it.

The system 7 boardset uses a separate display board to drive all the displays (keeping all the logic isolated on this board) to drive all the displays.

That's the hardware portion of the mod, plus some minor rewiring, I would imagine.

The second part of the mod is using a modified game ROM. The game was originally designed to use scores that were only 6-digits in length. To allow the game to handle scores 7-digits in length, the code needs to be modified.

At the time when 6-digit games were designed, there didn't seem to be a reason to code the game for 7-digit hardware if it didn't exist.

http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Williams_System_3_-_7#Displays

This mod would be similar to classic bally/stern games and Gottlieb system 80 games--they also have ways to change from 6-digit scoring to 7-digit scoring. Additionally, XPin has bally/stern displays that are plug & play to convert a 6-digit game to a 7-digit game without modifying anything (as far as I'm aware, anyway).

#3 8 years ago

There is no difference in the hardware on a system 6 and 7 mpu as far as the displays go, it's just sending different data out through the same connector to the master display board. Besides from the jumpers on the master display board, there shouldn't be and boardwork needed. Just plug the new display boards and game rom in.

#4 8 years ago

Very cool! So this is what I'm reading from your posts:

1) I can use the normal run-of-the-mill system 7 display such as:
http://www.xpinpinball.com/shop/catalog/xp-wms8363
2) I should be able to use those displays as-is with a change in the jumpers on the master display board
3) I need to modify the Firepower ROM to do 7-digits, and I found a place that has a starting ROM here:
http://www.planetarypinball.com/mm5/Williams/tech/sys6roms.html
4) I will need to use an EEPROM programmer to put the modified ROM on the chip
5) Put in the new chip

Does this sound about right?

#5 8 years ago
Quoted from Crater:

Very cool! So this is what I'm reading from your posts:
1) I can use the normal run-of-the-mill system 7 display such as:
http://www.xpinpinball.com/shop/catalog/xp-wms8363
2) I should be able to use those displays as-is with a change in the jumpers on the master display board
3) I need to modify the Firepower ROM to do 7-digits, and I found a place that has a starting ROM here:
http://www.planetarypinball.com/mm5/Williams/tech/sys6roms.html
4) I will need to use an EEPROM programmer to put the modified ROM on the chip
5) Put in the new chip
Does this sound about right?

That sounds about right to me. But--I've never attempted this conversion myself. It might be best to find someone who has actually done it before you commit to buying stuff in case there are any hang-ups for "gotchas".

#6 8 years ago

Sounds about right. I remember seeing a few years ago seeing ROMs that changed the programming to change the scoring to divide by 10, essentially eliminating the need to add a 7 digit display, but still allowing millions scoring. If I remember correctly, all you had to do was burn the new roms and install them into the game.

#7 8 years ago
Quoted from mbaumle:

Sounds about right. I remember seeing a few years ago seeing ROMs that changed the programming to change the scoring to divide by 10, essentially eliminating the need to add a 7 digit display, but still allowing millions scoring. If I remember correctly, all you had to do was burn the new roms and install them into the game.

Essentially, that would drop the zero in the ones digit. I wonder if replay matching still functioned correctly after doing that.

#8 8 years ago
Quoted from ForceFlow:

Essentially, that would drop the zero in the ones digit. I wonder if replay matching still functioned correctly after doing that.

Exactly. Also, Pascal has that feature added into his System 1 boards for millions scoring as well. It's out there for Firepower, but I've never tried it.

I'd assume that the match feature would also be divided as well. It'd makes sense to do that, and I can't imagine it taking that much extra time to program it.

#9 8 years ago

Depending on how serious you are about your Firepower, you might want to go with a Sys 7 CPU, as Oliver has another ROM for a 7 digit firepower that takes it even a step further.

http://www.pinball4you.ch/okaegi/pro_softfirepowerdeluxe.html

#10 8 years ago

This is all great information! I probably won't be going through with it for a bit. I'm going to enjoy the game as-is for a month or so, but I like tinkering and so I'm sure I will be doing lots to it in the future. This way if anything goes on sale or I see some parts go up for sale, I'll know what to jump on.

7 years later
#11 3 months ago

Zombie time! I’m looking to convert a Blackout to 7 digits, or, effectively to convert it to a System 7, and I’ve heard I could possibly achieve this by simply putting in a sys 7 display set and MPU, and just popping the game ROM from the sys 6 board into the sys 7 board, without modifying anything code-wise, as the code that manages the score is in the display driver, and otherwise as far as any other code is concerned, it is just going to continue to increment.

Did this particular project ever get done? Or does anyone else who commented here have any updated stories to tell about a conversion like this that has happened since this thread came about? Any thoughts on simply popping in some sys 7 hardware and that being all it takes?

#12 3 months ago
Quoted from zeldarioid:

Zombie time! I’m looking to convert a Blackout to 7 digits, or, effectively to convert it to a System 7, and I’ve heard I could possibly achieve this by simply putting in a sys 7 display set and MPU, and just popping the game ROM from the sys 6 board into the sys 7 board, without modifying anything code-wise, as the code that manages the score is in the display driver, and otherwise as far as any other code is concerned, it is just going to continue to increment.

No that's not how that works, at all.

System six game roms are not compatible with system seven OS roms.

#13 3 months ago
Quoted from slochar:

No that's not how that works, at all.
System six game roms are not compatible with system seven OS roms.

damn :/

#14 3 months ago

It could be done... just learn 6800 assembly language. Probably easiest to shoehorn blackout into the alien poker setup, since that is system 6 with 7 digit displays tacked on. I seem to recall that WMS did this internally for BO but could be faulty memory.

You can also just use the Ted Estes /10 romset it's not perfect (no matching when /10) but at least you don't lose your hstd when you turn it over at 1m.... now, make it to 10m....

#15 3 months ago
Quoted from slochar:

It could be done... just learn 6800 assembly language. Probably easiest to shoehorn blackout into the alien poker setup, since that is system 6 with 7 digit displays tacked on. I seem to recall that WMS did this internally for BO but could be faulty memory.
You can also just use the Ted Estes /10 romset it's not perfect (no matching when /10) but at least you don't lose your hstd when you turn it over at 1m.... now, make it to 10m....

Interesting concept using an Alien Poker! That sounds like it could be promising…

I’ve heard of the divide by 10 rom, but it still effectively has the same problem, IMHO: I either have to mentally track my actual score (or my guests do), and/or to manually record it to have the full, proper value. Hence the desire to convert to 7 digit, if at all possible (and not too complicated or expensive)! Thank you for the mention of it, though. I’m completely new to this space/concept, so any insight at all is very appreciated!

#16 3 months ago

Just record them as they show since the scoring is all relative anyway

Try idealjoker he's going to be digging into alien poker soon and might be able to do it .

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