(Topic ID: 241139)

Firepower 2 Locked on coil

By Waderade812

5 years ago


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#1 5 years ago

Hello pinsiders.

I picked up a firepower 2 last week and the previous owner had unhooked the driver wire for the lower left pop bumper because it stayed locked on. I'm still green around here, but this is how far I have made it. I have diagnosed all the way back to the driver board special solenoid 19 along with solenoid switch 19. I have removed the connectors from the driver board that are sending and receiving inputs from the playfield.

Still on the driver board connector 2J12, pin 3 Q6 my dmm is finding ground. I have checked the transistor Q6 and the test checks out. I visually cannot see anything burnt or mis-soldered. Where should I check next? The manual does not show past solenoid 16 drive on the driver board diagram.

Thanks Eric

#2 5 years ago

Hi Mate,

Please clarify exactly which "pop bumper" isnt working as 19 is actually the right pop bumper.

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#3 5 years ago
Quoted from Waderade812:

Still on the driver board connector 2J12, pin 3 Q6 my dmm is finding ground.

Is this with the power on or off?

Quoted from Waderade812:

The manual does not show past solenoid 16 drive on the driver board diagram.

dri (resized).PNGdri (resized).PNGQ-6 (resized).PNGQ-6 (resized).PNG
#4 5 years ago

Thank you. I need a higher resolution diagram. I cannot read the connector labels on mine. I just saw soleniod 3 and kept moving.

I will get back with you on the diagnosis. Since I tried re-seating the IC-6 and accidentally bent and broke a leg off the chip. So waiting for a new one to arrive.

#5 5 years ago

I am completely confused now. After replacing ic6 with a new chip "correctly orientated", The game will not start at all. The main board boots according to the single digit display on the CPU board. But with two balls installed the start button does nothing.

I have been through solenoid test and all the coils are hitting, minus the original pop bumper which is unhooked.

How should I approach this new found problem?

#6 5 years ago

Try switch test to see if the balls are registering.

#7 5 years ago

Oh yeah you need 3 balls too.

#8 5 years ago

I did the switch test with both balls removed and both balls inserted. The switches are registering normally.

There are only two trough switches and they are both depressed with two balls inserted. I saw in the manual it calls for three balls but firepower 2 only has a two ball multiball. I tried the test with three and the return has a hard time loading the third into storage. I think it is only a two ball game.

#9 5 years ago
Quoted from Waderade812:

I think it is only a two ball game.

It could be a mistake in the manual, I can't be sure as I don't have a FP2.

#10 5 years ago

I woke up with an idea. So turned on the game a loaded 2 credits on the machine and it started a game.

For some reason the free play setting was reset to factory credit play.

#11 4 years ago

Today a new transistor arrived for Q6 so I replaced it and the coil still locks on. The coil stays disengaged until I press the credit button to start the game and it locks on immediately.

#12 4 years ago
Quoted from Waderade812:

The coil stays disengaged until I press the credit button to start the game and it locks on immediately.

You need to check IC-6 with a logic probe in attract mode, then retest after starting a game. Remove the coil power fuse first.

fp2 (resized).PNGfp2 (resized).PNG
#13 4 years ago

I will pick up a logic probe today.

#14 4 years ago

I just dealt with this on a Laser Cue. It's a good idea to replace the three components that are in line with that solenoid. You'll want to replace the diode on the coil, replace the pre-driver, and also replace the transistor.

The reason being is that you may be getting electrical blowback from the solenoid due to the bad diode (which is likely the reason why it happened in the first place as it's a blocking diode). If you don't replace the diode, it will continuously blow out the pre-driver and the driver. If the coil locks on immediately when you power on the game, it usually means a blown pre-driver or driver.

Replace these three items:
On the coil
https://www.pinballlife.com/diode-1n4004.html

Pre-driver on Q6
https://www.pinballlife.com/2n4401-transistor.html

Driver on Q6
https://www.pinballlife.com/tip102.html

#15 4 years ago

The the only component left is the predriver.

It has a new coil and diode. Since the other burned and swelled. Thanks to the previous owner.

#16 4 years ago
Quoted from Waderade812:

The the only component left is the predriver.
It has a new coil and diode. Since the other burned and swelled. Thanks to the previous owner.

It's possible that the new diode is on the coil is bad. Something to consider. If you have a new diode, I would just as soon replace all three at once. Since you've replaced the the transistor and it still locks, you'll need to replace it again with a new one along with the other 2 components. If you do one at a time, you'll be chasing your tail around as one or the other will continue to blow since they all work in tandem. GL.

#17 4 years ago
Quoted from GRUMPY:

You need to check IC-6 with a logic probe in attract mode, then retest after starting a game. Remove the coil power fuse first.
[quoted image]

I just tested on IC6 12 and 13 and they test as follows.

Attract mode: 12 low level false condition
13 high level true condition

After game start they test exactly the same conditions as in attract mode.

#18 4 years ago

I have moved to IC 8 it tests

attract Game on
4-false null
5- false false
6-true false
14-true true

#19 4 years ago
Quoted from Waderade812:

Attract mode: 12 low level false condition

You need to figure out why pin 12 is low. Is the switch closed when it should be open. Is R-3 an open, which will not bring the line up the 5 volts. Is there a break in the 5 volt bus feeding R-3? Is the switch wire pinched and shorted to ground? Last but not least is C-3 shorted out dragging the line down to ground?

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#20 4 years ago

I have continuity between the orange/black and the ground. So is it this capacitor?

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#21 4 years ago

Never mind it is still finding continuity with it clipped. I will keep searching backwards

#22 4 years ago

With the game in attract mode and game started. R-3 is only getting 5 volts on one side of the resister. The otherside is not receiving power. Is this correct?

C-3 has continuity to ground. Across C-3 it has .4 ohms, that's basically open right?

#23 4 years ago
Quoted from Waderade812:

With the game in attract mode and game started. R-3 is only getting 5 volts on one side of the resister. The otherside is not receiving power. Is this correct?

This is correct, once you remove the ground short then both sides will read at 5 volts until the switch is triggered.

Quoted from Waderade812:

cross C-3 it has .4 ohms, that's basically open right

No that is a short, now is it from C-3 or something else. If you remove 2J-13 from the board, this will isolate the board from the playfield. If pin 12 is still reading low then its on the board, if it goes away then it's a wiring or a switch issue.

#24 4 years ago
Quoted from GRUMPY:

This is correct, once you remove the ground short then both sides will read at 5 volts until the switch is triggered.

No that is a short, now is it from C-3 or something else. If you remove 2J-13 from the board, this will isolate the board from the playfield. If pin 12 is still reading low then its on the board, if it goes away then it's a wiring or a switch issue.

Sorry I meant short. With 2J-13 disconnected pin 12 is sill reading low. Sounds like its time to replace C-3? Or is there more testing I need to do?

#25 4 years ago
Quoted from Waderade812:

R-3 is only getting 5 volts on one side of the resister

Did you check the ohms?

Quoted from Waderade812:

Sounds like its time to replace C-3?

Just lift one lead with the soldering iron, then retest.

#26 4 years ago

R-3 has .25 K Ohms
I lifted a leg on C-3 and and it is showing open

#27 4 years ago

I retested pin 12 with the leg lifted and it is still reading low.

#28 4 years ago

Success, here is what I have just found. The screw in the upper left hand mounting position for the driver board some how was grounding the back of the c3 and r3 section of the board after taking the screw out while testing I was able to press the board back and forth create the locked coil symptom. Wow what a bogger. Thank you so mouch Grumpy for getting me through this.

#29 4 years ago
Quoted from Waderade812:

The screw in the upper left hand mounting position for the driver board some how was grounding the back of the c3 and r3 section of the board

Nice find. Is this a factory board or a RD?

#30 4 years ago

It is a factory board. I'm wondering if after the boards were serviced "according to previous owner" the Interconnect pin replacement spread the boards a little further apart and the mounting locations didn't line up and the boards were flexed into position causing the ground.

#31 4 years ago

If you can post a pic of the back side of the board showing the screw hole area.

#32 4 years ago

I sure will. I want to reposition the mounting brackets to take the pressure off the boards. Its just hanging there at the moment.

#33 4 years ago

Here is what was happening. This screw was pushing down on the back of the board when tightened up to the back box mounting brackets.

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#34 4 years ago

I'm going to remove the plastic bracket off the board. So it doesn't push on the board. The board set is still mounted by the original 8 screws. Thanks again Grumpy.

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