I hate this thread. I just let go of my FBC after a couple of decades of love. Well, there was a half decade where it sat in storage. But to me BG (was faded) and Cab (nice) have nothing to do with the great game it was.

Going to remove the game from my list now (sniff)

I have owned both and although I played FBC hundreds of times in less than a year while I owned it, it just was missing that something special.

I have a 72 Fireball and although it has its issues, I still enjoy playing it. I've owned it for about 6 years. It's historically more important since it's so early. I don't know that it's really losing its following... I've been looking for a better example and just haven't come across a beautiful one close to me.

I had the FBC for about 6 months. It was a couple years ago and I don't really miss it. I decided that Medusa is a much better game and it also has zipper flippers.

I sold FBC and immediately found an broken Eight Ball Deluxe for about the same price. How can I regret that?

I don't think I will ever buy it again. I found the nice semi working FBC for $400 and didn't sell it for much more than that, 6 months later, shopped and fully working. These are just my opinions, would still play one if given the chance, just don't think I'd own one again.

I like playing FBC ok, but Fireball to me captures some pinball magic that classic doesn't replicate, even though the layout is the same.

yeah my FBC is in my "past list" I did enjoy playing yours while you still had it at League-finals although didn't get to compete on it.

it was also a pleasure to meet you over such a great machine

last time I played the EM Fireball I think it before the Classic came out.

FBC is just ....well ....its just okay. 72 Fireball EM is not losing any speed. Two nice examples sold at Texas Pinball Festival for quite the penny. My personal game is near flawless and won a "Best in Show" ribbon at the 2016 TPF. The game has everything I ever wanted in a pinball machine. Zipper flippers, multiball, one of the best skill shots, artwork for days, ball captures. It took me 15 years to locate the one I have now and 2 more years until Odin was willing to sell it to me. That's a 17 year quest. There is just nothing like playing this game when set up properly and freshly shopped. It will kick your ass.

We have a newly acquired FBC at CJs here and I am so digging the sounds! That is the big differentiator for me.

My first game was FBC, had a lot of fun with it. If it would have been in better shape I would have kept it.

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I agree a lot with what phil-lee said.
Fireball is one of the games that i actually remember playing a lot in the wild,
near Newport Beach pier in the mid 70s,
so it made a big impact on my brain.
Though did not get to own one until much much later.
FBClassic was the 3rd pin that i ever bought, at a San Diego Super Auction.
It had a non-faded BG, nice PF, but did have a couple of CAB decal defects, but played great.
I prefer the game play feel of the EM over the SS version.
Not sure why Bally did not attempt to incorporate a pop up post between the flips on the classic version.
Loaned my FBC out to a friend's home when i was needing space for my growing collection
and unfortunately in the loft where we set it up got unfiltered morning sun
and it did fade one side of the CAB decal (BG did not get affected by the fade fortunately).
I later located a EM Fireball is very good shape for a fair and decent price, (actually at PAGG about 15 yrs ago)
it is the German version which i prefer, as it just seems to make the theme more menacing.
FB EM is in my permanent collection. The FBC now is in the hands of PPM.

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FB was a great game because seemingly all the games before it were CCC (Cards, Cowboys and Clowns), and FB was an evil demon god drawn in super hero style.

Classic lacks the zippers, but makes up for it in speed.

1972 Fire Ball EM, with the Zipper Flippers and Spinning Disc was a fun/frustrating game to play, especially as a kid. It kicked my ass many times.
1985 Fire Ball Classic, same Spinning Disc, HEY! No Zippers, but managed to put many a quarter into this updated pin. Still challenging.
1980 Fire Ball 2, No Spinning Disc, just a rotating insert light. Can remember seeing the BackGlass then looking at the playfield, "What The Hell!" No Disc. It didn't last long at the arcade.

As Vid1900 stated above, the theme was an attraction. Most definitely not a Cowboy.

There is one fundamental distinction, mostly overlooked by new owners and collectors.
I see no mention here.

Here is the real legend.

The original EM Fireball is a Ted Zale design, and the remake is not and was designed by George Christian (EB series, Mystic, Frontier, etc). FB "Classic" has nothing to do with the legend, except for the fact that Mr. Christian was another pupil of Mr. Zale.
Most people do not know this fact.
If a person plays any of the 19 games Ted Zale designed with "zipper flippers" alone including the first game, Bazaar, they learn an appreciation of what he personally provided for innovation and development of pinball design that is used today.

"Mad Dog" cemented the legend with his outstanding artwork, but the theme could have been anything, and it still would have worked.
Artwork is not the critical design feature on pinball games, they are the augment to provide draw but not lasting success.
Dave Christensen did not do the artwork for FBC either, that was the talent of upcomer at the time, a very young Doug Watson.

Ted Zale did not even start designing pinball machines until his 60s at Bally as he worked at Genco beforehand.
Pretty amazing from the standpoint as a pinball designer.

He is one of four game designer "grandfathers" of pinball history (including Ed Krynski, Harry Williams, and Steve Kordek) that taught nearly every single designer in the 80s (including George Christian) and passed their skills into the remaining top modern designers, most of which are in their 60s right now.

People would not have modern pinball without him, yet there are hardly any photos, articles, or references to mark his passing many years ago. It is almost shocking considering his pinball contributions as he designed OVER A HUNDRED GAMES, not considering all the games he assisted in designing and was never given credit.

I not sure where presumption that the EM version is "losing its following" was estimated. Maybe on PinSide? The game continues to outpace the SS remake with the price value of 3 to 1 and continues its offsetting higher every year. More FBC seem to be ending up in landfills, or junked for the MPU-35 boardsets. People are right, the backglasses are trash, as this is after Bally switched to inferior ink screening and heat treatment. Fully restored EM examples can get pretty ridiculously stupid in price (more than that $5-6K), even though other titles he designed such as Op-Pop-Pop, Capersville, 4MBC, Joust, MiniZag, and Nip-It have better gameplay value and remain in some cases completely unknown.

PinSide represents almost none of the EM community at all.
My search of the "right" EM Fireball lasted over 25 years passing over several dozen.

EM games do not use flashers or have electrical circuitry to drive them.
Some do have blinking #455 bayonet bulbs though that run on 6.3-6.5 v, 0.5 amp.
Fireball used a few in the backglass.

There are other various non-descript subtle playfield differences between the two games as well.
The rulesets are different.
The game functionality (not related to EM components) is extremely different.
If chimes are "weak" on an EM, rebuild them, if you want the sound of a gong going off in games, a person can switch out components.
BTW, Fireball does not use chimes, it uses bells, so there is a difference in location, distance, and application.
If a person is still not happy, remove the backbox panel as see how loud the bells can get on a Fireball.
Gameplay skill sets are VASTLY different in order to play either game successfully.

Essentially FB "Classic" sort of looks like, but is not, a Fireball.
It is like comparing a goose to a duck.
It did work well for operators even with the particle board cabinet to attract a slightly older crowd of "remembers" in 1985.

Since the OP is along the East Coast, I recommend Pintastic.
There is special event coming up on Ted Zale.
It might be interesting.

I have a Fireball Classic sitting in my living room that is going on route. It should do well. Looks nice and will be a good player when I am done with it. Also will be very reliable. I would not feel nearly as comfortable putting an EM on route by any means although my personal collection is dominated by them.

Might want to include Norm Clark and Wayne Neyens
as they were also around during the transition from EM to SS.

I never would dismiss Norm or Wayne, as a dynamic duo.
Especially Wayne.
Wayne was more of another "great grandfather" to pinball as he broken serious ground in the early 1950s.
His designs however sometimes were just too similar to show some of the innovations brought to the table in the later 60s and early 70s.
I probably should have "swapped" his place with Harry Williams as far his contributions to the period.
Norm Neyens was always a contributing solid designer, but not as much as teacher, more like an offset supporter to new industry talent.

The reason I discussed Mr. Zale in conjunction with the others I noted is based on comparison of Mr. Christian's FBC and his pupil status, not necessarily as pure "zipper flipper" Fireball fan.
After detailed study of all his game designs, historians can see what Ted Zale did for the industry in terms of trying to squeeze out as much gameplay in the space of playfields, making games as unique as possible within allotted design periods (not considering any foreign export or Add-a-ball versions of a same game), similar to designers such as Pat Lawlor has done for games starting as early as the late 1980s.

Ted Zale is also much less credited designer than others, particularly in game innovations which is tragic.
Jim Patla and Greg Kmiec would not have been successful without his guidance.

Certainly other designers built more volume of games than him starting as early as the 1940s.

Most know Mr. Kordek was still very active into his 90s.
Mr. Williams probably would have kept going forever, if he could have (I look forward to Duncan Brown's next upcoming "Lost designs" game project development)
Mr. Krynski was always trying to school future generations until his health started failing.

You are 100% correct about Zale's thinking outside the box designs.
The only thing I tend to not like about some of his designs
is Bally's continued use of those wide open (gapping) outlanes,
brutal to say the least.

On Bally's and a lot of WMS designs I lose the ball to the hungry outlanes all too often,
I would much rather lose it between the flippers
when at least I think (probably unwisely)
that I have a fighting chance.

I like my FBC very much. Ordered new backglass from bgresto.com. Really would like to find cabinet decals or the artwork so I can have some made.

The outlane issues and directional design and size of the slingshots was a Bally/WMS management decision from what I was told.
This included changing anything on the final bottom half of the playfield that "did not look like a standard pinball machine" of the period.
They considered these changes too radical, and were concerned on the feedback from operators, if it hurt their earnings given the short balls times.
Fortunately, Ted Zale won on the argument of "zipper flippers" as a proprietary test feature back in 1966 to "give back something to the players".

Steve Kordek disliked the gap and slingshot issues as well feeling that they were much too aggressive.
He was interviewed several times on this aspect at Expos years ago.

Ted Zale supposedly wanted to change the standard accordingly (slingshots, outlanes, and bottom playfield features), but ended up having to compromise which led to his innovational development of the "free ball gate" that became prevalent in the late 60s and early 70s, including many of his designs.

This would make for some interesting "fireside chat" conversation between us and others.

Yeah those "give back to the player" features
like free ball gates and kickback lane or pop up posts
almost always make me like a game more (since i am such a average player).
But in the 60s those features were far and few between.
And of course is the 50s they had gobble holes.
But it seemed there were more chances for free games back then.

Williams Gay '90's was the best; Right and left Free Ball Gates and a post between the flippers. You couldn't lose!

"I will look forward to seeing the back glass when it arrives, I hope Bgresto captures the deep reds of our "Super Hero". Please post it if you can."

Yes, my backglass is totally faded. Please do post a pic of BGRestos work, would like to see.

Their work is outstanding for the price charged and availability. As Lee Iacocca says: "If you can find a better backglass, buy it"!

Part of this discussion reminds of a conversation I overheard between a consumer/distributor about 16+ years ago at a Pinball Expo that Sharkey's Shootout was the redefined example of EBD when it was released by Stern in 2000.

"Nobody cares about EBD anymore, you really will like and want to buy the updated version."

Just like EBD, there is an EM Fireball at nearly major pinball show, with neither Sharkey's Shootout or Fireball "Classic" often seen. Sharkey's particularly have started to landfill after Whitestar boardset MPUs have failed or were cannibalized. If a person wants to play either of the original games there are plenty of long time collectors that perserve pinball history and donate their time and games to give people the opportunity. If they did not there would not be the continuing shows running for over 25 years during the "dark times" that cycle as new generations move in and out of pinball.

If the EM Fireball interest was "fading" and not relevant, it would not be even discussed 45 years later, like this thread, unlike many other Ted Zale classic titles I mentioned. You do not hear the title, "Capersville" mentioned that often.

Seems like some people do care.

I have a FireBall II and like it. Other than the art and theme, not much like FB. I would like a FireBall Classic simply because I'd like a SS version. Would be nice to have them side by side. See quite a few w/fade. Locally they don't come up very often.

I played the game on location in northern Michigan at a campground near mackinaw. It was about 1978. I was going into the sixth grade next year. One of my cousins was cute she was about 16. One of my aunts was really hot she was about 21 and didn't wear bras.

Oh and the first pinball I ever played was there right by the air hockey. Video games were coming...

Like many things, the original is better. Remakes that eliminate key features just serve to water down the greatness of the original.

The most interesting thing about fireball to me is that it represents the birth of pinball in my life. 1978. I need a backglass on the wall at the very least.

And nearly 50 years later we are still discussing it. And playing it. Awesome!

I played Fireball EM at the airport arcade when it came out.
The great artwork was what drew me in.
I was also wowed by the multiball feature (something that hasn't been mentioned in this thread but was great for an action junkie like me)
The zipper flippers I also thought were great. Anything to keep the ball from draining between the flippers!

Then I played a FBC at a pinball expo and thought it was OK but the fact it was an SS turned me off.

The only reason I would buy a Fireball EM would be for the artwork.
I don't think the gameplay is that great but that could be because it was too easy to win on and I did play a new example on location.

Bruce