You would be surprised by how many people have never played or by how many people only enjoy solid state pins.

It might be lower because it kicks people's asses and as a result was voted lower due to frustration

Yeah it definitely is one of the best ems. Top 10 for sure.

The number of EM versions remaining in the "wild" is Lilliputian.
Most reside in museums, specialized pinball "historic" play centers, or collectors hands.
My guess is under 500 remain functional now, and the few others are hiding in warehouses incomplete.
A good example would be Gene Cuttingham's pinball collection which was basically in storage forever.
He owned FOUR machines, none of which had been operated in decades.

Given another 10-15 years, it will become a very hard machine to see at all as technology marches on.
The way people will remember the machine is via Fireball Classic.

The majority of people who have played the game do not understand the rules and/or think the game is complete random luck.
It just frustrates them and they say, "I do not get it".
Once this is explained, opinions change.

The rest of players are 1990 and up game preferences.
Generally, this changes with time if a collector stays in the hobby long enough.

The game brings pinball back to its "roots".

I always hated the game; not only is the playfield way too limited based on the skill shot hardware, the spinning disk really adds too much chaos for a 2 inch flipper game IMO... I know the game's scoring logic, still think the game stinks.

The artwork is beautiful on the other hand.

35 is about right.

Its rating doesn't reflect its importance to pinball as a whole, it's a rating based on how much fun it is to play. Compared to newer games with deep rulesets and many modes no EM has the fun factor modern games have.

Many people can learn to love what EM games have to offer but it's a whole different experience than a modern pin.

I have only ever seen or played one, at Todd Svec's. It is a real nice example though. One of the few EMs I don't mind playing. Does he like it? It is the only pin in his living room.

I also think you can't put too much stock in the rankings here. It's a very small percentage of people who vote, so just a vote or two can have a big impact it seems on how a game ranks. And it's pretty subjective with people voting games they own higher often than not. I'd take it with a grain of salt. Or two.

Whenever I seek rankings for a game I pay very little attention to the average mark or ranking. I found the comments far more instructive. And I only consider marks from people I know would give a fair ranking like Caucasian2step.

And for the record, I truly love Fireball. Disclaimer: I now own one!

Fireball is an amazing game! It will always be my favorite EM. I brought it to Texas Pinball Festival last week. It was set up in the tournament where it gladly kicked everyone's ass because of the new flipper rebuild and nice shiny coats of Blitz wax. It even garnished me the top ribbon at TPF. Not bad for a 44 year old game eh? It took me 16-17 years to find one in total original survivor condition with only 57k plays.

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Take away all of the playfield gimmicks and it's just another multi-player game, made popular from an article in a '72 Playboy Magazine. Bally threw every gimmick they had into this one and advertised it as such. The most memorable thing about it probably started from the new-in-the-box price tag at the time.

Most former owners feel it's overrated. Most current owners think it's nostalgic. Of all the serious EM collectors I've met through the years, (and I've been in the hobby about 30 of 'em), nobody held onto, or had interest in acquiring the game.

The artwork is another story. Then again, this can be said about alot of Bally Games from the '70's and early '80's.

In my eyes, there isn't a better EM. It's #1. I guess I'm a "serious" collector, and mine is being held onto.

Don't confuse yourself with the speech, sound and light show! The playfield dimensions are virtually the same. I wouldn't describe "Fun-factor" as shooting for stuff over and over again because I'm in the 3rd or 4th mode, or shooting for ramps landing the ball in pre-determined areas. I find that boring as hell, and that many EM's have a superior fun-factor.

At least you recovered, stating EM's and modern pins are a "Whole different experience," that difference, (to me), on a modern pin is the manufacturer justifying $1 per play, (for only 3 balls). Once again, the playfield dimensions unfortunately are the same. 5th mode? No variety, no fun, just the same shit to shoot for, (usually disguised by a sound and light show).

Rankings are for novelty purposes only and to actually care about them is stupid.

A far as fireball is concerned I've owned several and find it to be a very good game. The gimmicks rule, great skill shot, and it's very satisfying to control the ball and score big by back handing the right lane when it's lit for 3,000 points. The only pre-1976 Bally that's any fun.

I agree, it should probably be #1 among EMs. The rating system is totally broken. It takes way too much time to do each rating, and the final rating it creates may not actually reflect your feelings about a game.

Big picture, the ratings obviously don't mean anything. It would, however, make the site more fun if it was done differently. Changing the methodology might cause a shakeup in the top 100...would people freak out? Probably.

this is truly a great game and does deserve to be higher than 35 . I played this amazing Fireball at the TPF and got my ass kicked just after i put the high score of the day up on the hobbit at 270XXX . Time to go rate this game you'll

Well if that statement is completely false. "No EM has the fun factor of modern games have"... I can tell you from my parties I have some EM's have alot more "Fun" factor then the new games and sometimes those can be the last games played as everyone gets tired of the DMD pins. No question on multiplayer and EM can easily can beat a DMD hands down on pure "fun".

At the TPF you could walk up to nearly any EM with no line. Most non-EMs had a line. That tells me EMs don't have the fun factor that modern games have.

EMs stand there unplayed most of the time at Pinballz in Austin too. Maybe it takes an aficionado to teach people the fun factor of EMs? I'd like to learn to like them but they generally bore me. There is a Fireball Classic at Pinballz that feels very floaty and uncontrollable. The Fireball in the TPF tournament wasn't any more fun to me.

I'd still like to find a fun EM with the manual shooter lane loader. I'm sure some of those would hold my interest.

EM's held the interest of people for a hell of a lot longer than the modern games did. With the advent of solid state, the 100 year history of pinball was dead in two decades..... Chew on that.

Yep, December 1972, the Christmas Issue, and it was the first time I ever saw a serious article about pinball. It was a very big deal. The article talked about the history of pinball in depth, and talked about the designers, and the milestone machines--all stuff that's common knowledge today, but back then no one knew it. I bet I read that article 50 times.

Anyway, there was a big photo of Fireball, and the caption flat-out said that Fireball was the best game ever made. It's been coasting off that one photo for 40 years now.

It's a good machine, certainly top 10 or 15, but without Playboy I doubt if it would have the ranking it does.

I'm still trying to wrap my head around this one.

"Take away the spinning disk, the return gate, the zipper flippers, the two-level playfield skill shot, the left outlane kickback, amazing art, and three-ball mutliball, and it's just another multi-player game!"

No shit. And if my grandmother had wheels, she'd be a wagon.

Maybe one of the best multi-players.

Plenty of games with more interesting rule sets.

It is a truly iconic game though.

I did notice while playing it that I could let the ball rest on the flippers while they were closed and shoot the same shot over and over.

As for number 1 game, well, there are just so many great games, can't think of one game that is head and shoulders above the rest.

I wouldn't go that far. But you are entitled to your opinion. There are games like 4 Million BC, The Wiggler, Capersville, Rocket III, and On Beam to name a few. Each pinball machine is subjective like art, music or film, either you like it or you don't.

Yeoldpinplayer... EMs get a bad name for the people that set them up wrong, don't level them, don't change the balls, don't change the rubbers. Don't wax them for years. Then they bring them to a pinball event as a turd to just get in. Not saying everyone does this but about 15-20% of the EMs brought to shows fall into this catagory. Did you go to the Vector area? Did you go to Bob Herbison and Ken Head's booth? Both of these booth's were outstanding and had machines that played like they came out of the box in their perspective years. We get it...You don't like EM's, you don't understand EMs and most likely never will. That's fine. If the Fireball I brought bored you then I really don't know what EM will ever excite you. As for a game being floaty at pinballz....well tell them how you feel and maybe they will adjust the pitch. Find a EM collector in your area and see if you can visit and play a variety of EMs.

I am happy that it kicked your butt and other's butt. It was my intention. But seriously...glad you enjoyed the game!

I rebuilt my flippers 2 weeks before TPF and you could no longer lightly tap pass from one closed flipper to the other. If you tried this then it would hit the kicker and be ejected into the outlane. I highly doubt when this game was new (or any zipper flipper game for that matter) that you were able to accomplish this type of pass. I honestly don't think then designer Ted Zale had this in mind when designing the game. I may be mistaken. The repair guy took out original metal sleeves out of my game. The repair guy had told me that my flippers were fine. I told him that I did not care and that I wanted him to install a brand new flipper kit for TPF.

Boatcat...I get it...you are a Gottlieb guy and that is cool and you have a great selection of Gottlieb games. I like Gottlieb and have owned about 10 or 11 of them over the years. In the past year I have discovered Bally EMs (other than Fireball) that I really like and enjoy more than Gottliebs. It took playing more Bally machines to be convinced that I really enjoyed the old Bally EMs more than the Gottliebs. 90% of the EM crowd on here are Gottlieb fans and there is nothing wrong with that. That just leaves more Bally machines for me to collect.

35 is ballpark for me because off the top of my head I can name 30 EM's I like better . As far as lines to play new DMD games that's great for us serious EM Baby Boomers. Let the 25 year old jackwagon with 6" inches of underwear showing , arms and neck covered in tats, huge holes in his ears being pried open by metal hardware, and his freiking hat on backwards . Yup let "those guys"play all the over-priced light & sound show boxes of Christmas Decorations for hours . Thus keeping them off the EM's

Whatever you do, don't touch the third rail of pinball discussions - that being Bally had more innovations, art and built-in quality in 4 games (Fireball, 4MBC, Nip-It & Capersville) than 40 Gottlieb titles of the same era.
Oh that's right, I'm wrong. I forgot about Gottlieb's "vari-targets"....
Zzzzzzzzzzzzz

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Bally games just aren't very fun to play, and are by far the worst to work on with the worst quality components (light sockets, connectors, fuse holders are total junk) and the most confusing logic and schematics.

Goes without saying it's opinion but this is my conclusion.

The Bally art is certainly very nice once out of pointy people land.

They certainly turned it Around and had a very brief run as the #1 manufacturer.

A much larger sample size of EM "big boy" collectors is required. Every single one still own their machine with a death grip, almost all of the them. Many of the machines are in storage.

Upwards of close to 80-100 worldwide. The key is worldwide, not the United States exclusively. Quite a few are in Europe, even those with the "Deustch" backglass. Some even put them out for the public to play occasionally. Some might say, "that is a very small number", but read below.

There just are not that many left, collectors and machines.
When you have less than probably 600 machines floating around the world, you are just not going see them except in public "museums".

This title was also as casualty of the "ban".
I cried when I was one in a barn covered in bird [email protected]#! over 20 years ago, as I recognized the cabinet immediately.

However, we are talking about collectors that collect the full spectrum of the BLY/WMS/GTB EM era including woodrails and wedgeheads.

I cannot think of a single EM I would rather own.

you jinxed it. Now it is #36.

I think it is ok, but there are better EM's.

I started "all Gottlieb" but have steadily favored Bally (my top three are Ballys... maybe top four). Agreed about the crappy lamp sockets but honestly after 40 years most of the Gottlieb's need replacement too. I find Bally score reels are easier to service, the relay switch stacks are easier to adjust (unlike the compressed rows found in Gottlieb's), and overall they are built like tanks whereas Gottlieb's are a bit fussy and require more finesse to get dialed in and bulletproofed. The only serious Achilles' Heel are the plastic stepper gears which will melt if the solenoid gets cooked. But I'll take that risk over those horrible Gottlieb AS steppers anyday.

As far as Fireball is concerned... I have one... but would agree it is a bit overrated. It is the "Pac Man" of EM pinball. Everyone recognizes it, but in a similar way the gameplay gets a little repetitive. After making the skill shot (which is easy to do), you're constrained to a 3/4 size playfield to flip and catch, lock and release. That's pretty much it. Positives are killer artwork, awesome spinner, skill shot, multiball, kickback, lane return... just tons of features. But overall the novelty factor doesn't contribute enough to the core gameplay for me.

It IS a cool game, no doubt about it. I rate it 8 out of 10 all things considered. But I wouldn't place it in my personal top five in my collection... would have to put Bally Dixieland, Old Chicago, and the Freedom prototype ahead of it. Along with 2001, King Pin ('73), and probably Skyrocket as well. Maybe also King Pin ('62), Heat Wave, and Paradise too. Beyond that it gets tough... hmmmmm....

Ratings are close to being completely worthless and should only be used as a general guide. People who suck at playing or don't like the theme or don't own it aren't going to give it a fair rating. Owners who like the games tend to rate them higher out of bias. Pinside has a decent rating system, but everyone will use and abuse it differently. I prefer ratings with some sort of feedback commentary to go with it so you can get a better understanding of how people really feel.

Oh totally. IPDB ratings are *completely* speculative... nearly every game scores a 7.something. It's just for fun.

I get the most out of the ratings by clicking on individual reviewers and following their write-ups. They often go further into evaluating the game than "I like mine" or "played this one as a teenager".

Well, if it's gimmicks you like, it's the game for you. I prefer good game play. This one plays like a B-list multi-player in disguise! Trivial pop scoring, no extra ball or special awards available, spinning disc obstructing most shots, I just need more in terms of objectives and sequences to keep me interested. There's nothing here but an attempt by Bally to roll all their gimmicks into 1 game, the real reason for it's hype.

Nope............ It tells you people prefer the sound-and-light show.

If you release the ball locked on the right saucer using Odin, gate opens and ball falls in the shooter's lane.
Close to an extra-ball...

This game has awesome game play. This game has awesome game play. For a third time....This game has awesome game play.

I really want what you are smoking. Ted Zale did an awesome job designing games for Bally. When I first got into collecting in 1998...I knew this game was special. I would see this game in large collections and right away I would gravitate to this game and 4 or 5 other games out of the other 30 EMs that were there.

Not if you get the skill shot and have a good multiball going.

You get an extra ball when you trap a ball for multiball. You get rewarded by getting the skill shot. You can stack up 3k points on each skill shot. You get rewarded by releasing the trapped balls. You get rewarded points if you have collected the 3 mushroom bumpers lighting up the rewards for 1000 on each roll over on the Woton release. You get rewarded up to 5000 points if you release Odin at the right time. You get rewarded with the ball gate opening if you "release the gods". Woton captive ball then rolls in the shooter lane. You get the "reward" of shooting this ball back into play whenever you like.

Obviously you hate the spinning disc. I love the spinning disc. I love how it can whip the ball in a flash into the outlane just to be kicked back in if you had rolled over the "on kicker" button. All three major shots are not in line of the spinning disc. The spinning disc is your punishment for a misaligned shot. With the proper nudging you may keep it from whipping down the outlane or through your open zipper flippers.

It was innovative and ahead of its time. This is one of about 5 machines that NON-EM guys bring into their collection if they end up with only one. Some other ("I only have one EM") machines would be Slick Chick, Kings and Queens, King of Diamonds, El Dorado and Atlantis. My point is this game is highly regarded for more than just the artwork. People own this game because it is fun to play and it kicks your ass if it set up right and as I type this I want to go play another game and another and another.

Please respectively go find another game to trash. Its like you are saying Miles Davis was a shitty trumpet player. Or "I only like Ford" and Chevy sucks. I really don't know why I have wasted the past 20 minutes writing up a defense for what I know is true. It just feels unproductive and negative.

Definitely my favorite em however I haven't played a ton .

Fireball is a game that I've had a sea change on. Playing it when it first came out, the spinning disc and the multiball was something totally different, so I played the game a lot.

It was always at the top of my list of wants. Then I played it again a few years back and my mind changed. I'm not as far down on it as boatcat, but it's also really no longer on my list. I'm not really much of a fan of multiball, because I think pinball is the art of controlling the ball and shooting at targets, and there's really not a lot of controlling and shooting going on with three balls bouncing around continually. And I agree that there's really not a lot to do on the game outside of locking up the balls and then getting them released. Maybe if I liked multiball more I'd like the game more. The kicker and ball return gate, I have on my 1967 Surfers, so it's not really a novelty to me.

I don't think it's a bad game by any means, and in good condition it's a real looker art wise, but as a player, to me it's just average, and not worth what it costs to get one.

You know, if you take away Thing, the magnets, the theme, the bookcase, the awesome ruleset, all of the custom sound and speech, and those gimmicky flippers, The Addams Family is basically just a Bingo.

thanks for bringing your stellar example machine. I enjoyed playing it very much. It was a game I had on my short list and was thinking it would be my first EM. Realized after playing a nice example that is has no lasting power for me. Too little skill and too much luck for my tastes along with so much being based on the skillshot.

Beautiful game with some great toys (esp for that era), but just a brutal random monster.

Because the advent of solid state meant the eventual advent of video games.

Have you ever even played it?

Skill shot is important because it lights the pop bumpers, so that they are no longer trivial.

This made me laugh. Because it's true.

This game kicked my ass in qualifying but I won it in the group stage. Thanks for bringing it! Very challenging, that disc was fierce!

It's actually not true, nor is it funny.

It conflates the common "thug/trash" argument with the decidedly middle-aged, middle class or rural demographic you see in the hobby. I really don't see too many "25 year old jackwagon with 6" inches of underwear showing , arms and neck covered in tats, huge holes in his ears being pried open by metal hardware, and his freiking hat on backwards" at pinball shows.

Maybe I'm missing something but that's not a real common sight for me in pinball - DMD/EM or otherwise. Still, I guess it has its place in this thread as any EM thread needs a fare share of "get off my lawn!" type old-man ranting.

also funny as he says all the DMDs are expensive/overpriced. Isn't Fireball one of the most expensive EMs around?

Well yeah but you can get a decent one for 1500 bucks so I really don't think that's so outrageous in a world where people are paying $3000 for garbage like Judge Dredd.

The worst part about this thread is that after people read it and rated Fireball for the first time it dropped from 35 to 44 lol

lol. Very true. Anytime a game comes up in one of these threads it prompts me to go give it my rating. In this case my rating will cause it to drop.

I think a few of us should go pick the right offbeat title and go rate it all 9.9-10.0 on some saturday (get enought rankings so it pops on the list finaly the following Sunday) just to have to rise to the top and then get beat back the following week

Hey, RT................. You kind of revealed it all in this statement.

I'll go with the sentiments of NicoVolta, EM'sInKC and Whysnow. xTheBlackKnightx says, most hold onto them with a death grip, but they're in storage. You mean they don't even bother to display it in their gamerooms? Not a surprise, it's novelty driven, and that's about it. I need a game-lasting objective or sequence to sustain my interest. OK, that's a single-player mindset, I get it. The game has 1 too many options for me, that friggin' spinning disc. I might've even warmed up to it a bit if it didn't have this!

Hey, Levi............ Can you say YOU really played it? Don't recall the replay thresholds, but let's say at 60K, how long/how many times will I need to send/sustain the ball in thumper land even at the skill shot "100 when lit" value to get there?