(Topic ID: 131407)

Fireball II Club (fans welcome!)

By mof

7 years ago

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  • 81 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 56 days ago by jlbintn
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#274 4 years ago

Just signed up to this site. Been lurking on and off for a month or three.

I will have a longer write-up in my story at a date coming soon, but wanted to post here that I just completed a complete playfield swap for this game. It went rather smoothly, but now am busy working some board issues.

Fireball II is my first purchased pinball game.

1 week later
#276 4 years ago
Quoted from Jappie:

Welcome to the club! Great machine to start off with

Thank you. I am working some weird board issues. I'm pretty sure the swap is not related to the problems I am experiencing. Just finished a rebuild of the Squawk & Talk board. That was fun

Replaced the Lamp and Auxiliary Lamp Driver boards with new boards from Alltek. Hasn't solved all of my problems, but I seem to be making headway. Had to replace a couple of transistors on the Solenoid Driver board. I am probably going to replace that with the newer one from Alltek. These boards are the originals included in the game and they held up remarkably well considering the abuse I believe this game saw during it's life.

I will probably work on my soldering techniques with the old boards as I believe they are still quite servicable. Good practice and good experience.

The original MPU was shot when I purchased the game. I have a Tom Callahan Mutha Board in right now, and I'm not sure that some of the problems I am experiencing are not related to that, but more on that at another date. I brought it back to life in the late winter/early spring of 2007 but then we bought our house and it languished for a long time. Stored in the house in a corner in a good environment.

I got the replacement playfield about this same time, from a guy in France for $600. I also found another junked playfield with some of the plastic and everything else underneath intact. It aided me greatly during the swap.

I am going to wax this board regularly. Both playfields (the original and the spare parts field) were in horrible shape. Not sure what Bally did not do at the time this game was manufactured to enhance the survivability of this game.

Oh well.

I plan on building a nice cedar frame around the original playfield, eventually hanging it on the wall near the refurbished machine. I love this game, mainly because I've brought it back to life twice, even if it's still somewhat quirky getting it to prime operating condition.

#277 4 years ago
Quoted from Rascal-911:

I just put the rubbers on the same way it came, but I should look closer at the proper configuration. Yes I did clear coat. it makes a nice smooth surface when done. I built my first rotisserie and found a spot to set up in my shop.

What did you clear coat it with? Did you wax it on, or did you spray?

3 weeks later
#278 4 years ago
Quoted from pinkid:

I believe that plastic thing is actually connected to a switch. It counts every time the ball goes across.

There is no connection to the plastic piece that I have ever seen. I am only going by two old boards that I utilized for a recent playfield swap. Four screws hold it in place and there is a paper type gasket that lies between the playfield wood and the plastic piece.

Unless I just happened to get two old boards that were somehow modified, or I am misunderstanding your post.

#279 4 years ago

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1 week later
#281 4 years ago
Quoted from surfinvet:

Hey Fireball II fans,
I’m fixing up a Fireball II and noticed the lamps around the doodlebug in the corners do not light in lamp test. I’m assuming they are supposed to flash is that correct? Any chance they are related to the Auxillary Driver board AS-2518-68 or AS-2517-67? Can someone explain the purpose and function of the boards in the game?
Thanks for any info!

Yes, they should flash in self-test mode. It could be a number of issues, not limited to the Lamp Driver boards. Do they work during game play?

I'll give you a personal "for instance" with my game. Self-test works perfectly in my game, with the exception of Test 4, the sound test. The sound board has no issues in any other aspect of the game, but I can not hear the sound test with any clarity. It's there, but it is extremely low almost as if the speaker is turned down in that phase of self-test.

So if the lights work during the game in that area, it may be an issue you can live with.

But don't rule out connectors or bad lamp sockets or some other wiring issue that only tedious snooping under the playfield or in the backbox (which will drive you crazy at times) will discover.

Like chasing ghosts sometimes LOL

eta, I am not using an original MPU. I have a Callahan MPU, but don't know why the sound test would be an issue with a newer board, being that everything else seems to function flawlessly.

#283 4 years ago
Quoted from surfinvet:

Thanks for the post. During game play, i have the flashing of the GI lights but not the lights involving the corners of the doodlebug mechanism. The magnet works, the ball gets tossed up and down and the switch registers the scoring. Under the playfield, the lamp is on in the far right corner (my guess in relation to one of the aux lamp driver boards) However, the lamp close to the aux lamp driver board closest to the doodlebug is not on. A new bulb did not fix it. Any ideas on how to test the aux light board and what do I expect for it to be working correctly? What drives this board originally? My guess is it should flash when the ball in the doodlebug is moving?

Your problem may lie with the connection on the mini lamp driver under the playfield. The one with the heatsink, which is AS-2518-67. That controls the lights around the doodlebug.

If you have a good meter, test the two resistors on that board in Ohms mode. R1 should read 300 ohms, within 5% high or low. R2 should read 100 ohms, within 5% high or low. Pull it off before testing, which will give you the opportunity to inspect the solder points. Don't forget the connector, either.

You say your doodlebug properly moves the captive ball properly. Does the switch (which is closed) have a diode or cap on it. I'm trying to find why mine functions, but does so in a manner I would describe as weak.

Those boards can be had relatively cheap, or you can do them yourself probably cheaper.


One more thing. Do you have a manual for the game?


Got the captive ball feature switch adjusted. It now bounces around in there like a champ!

2 months later
#303 4 years ago
Quoted from scampcamp:

I did it. If I am not able to get the board working... who would you suggest to send it to? Or would a new rottendog board be the way to go?

Allteksystems is a good MPU option, in addition to the one you mentioned. Eldoradogames could be a good repair option to consider. They re-worked my S&T and were great to deal with.

I'm running a Tom Callahan MPU, but I don't think those can be had anymore, as Tom has retired afaik.

You have a lot of options, and that's the good news

I wouldn't be surprised if that battery on the board is responsible for all of your issues. Maybe not, but corrosion was a known killer on these older MPU's.


btw, welcome to the Fireball II world. It's a great game.

#305 4 years ago
Quoted from Rascal-911:

Sorry for the late reply, I just seen your post, I used regular automotive clear coat that I use on cars.

Thanks for the response, I'm way past that as all of the pieces are in place on the playfield. I used something similar to that years ago after I received the playfield, but then I got busy with our new house and the game languished in the back recreation room. The field still looks glossy, but I don't want to mess around with clear coat right now, although if I do get adventurous that is nice to know. So thank you very much for the information

I've taken to using air cans to spray clean/blow the particles that are still showing up from the swap, and I have used Wildcat to clean the playfield, and then applied Mothers or Meguiars to wax it up. There is some minor planking, oddly enough only in the areas that are yellow, but nothing that I can see right now that will ruin the playfield as long as I stay on top of it.

I ordered a can of Mothers online, but it arrived hard and cracked in the can. I discovered that if I broke it off in small blocks, it is still quite viable. Or I just go with Meguiars spray and buff that way.

I got the NOS playfield from a gentleman in France back in early 2007. $600. I hemmed and hawed for about a week before taking the plunge, but seeing now how very difficult it is to find things for this particular game, it was the best money I ever spent.

Playfields that are for sale, on the occasion one finds one available, I haven't seen one going for under $900. And forget the older games, like this. Bally produced 2300 units of Fireball II, but according to KLOV, there are only 89 registered throughout the world. Makes me wonder where the other 2211 are. I smell a lot of spare parts out there in hiding

What I have learned from this Fireball II project, is that I now know a lot of things that I would not do the same way, but then again that's the learning process. I am very happy with how this project turned out.

We don't necessarily go in for restoring the cabinet painting and all of that, as we like the vintage used look. Within reason of course. I've got some minor touch-up to do on the cabinet and I made a guide rail mistake on the B lane. Should have never put it there, even though the template playfield I used to move the wiring had it. I went with that instead of leaving it off, and now I have to get that smoothed out and touched up with paint. Character scar, that's my story and I'm sticking to it

I got new glass, since these pictures were taken. It was pretty scratched up. The stories it could tell if it could talk. I plan on taking the old glass, and finding some way to attach it to the old playfield and framing it to hang up on the wall back there. Not sure how I'm going to go about that yet, but the plan is being formulated and it will happen.

Also, the rubber ring coming down from the B lane and under Wotan's Lair, that is not how the manual illustrates it, and I have since changed that up to match the manual specs. I put a small rubber ring on that bottom post along the B lane. It changes the ball trajectory somewhat, when coming off that pop bumper. The reason I put the guide rail there during the swap was to turn the ball a bit into the bumpers, but in hindsight I didn't like that. Much better coming straight down.

The devil face drop targets for the middle assembly have, recently, become available. As also the thumper bumper caps. I've stocked up on spares. Marco has them, but they're pricey, especially the drop targets. I got 10 of em for spares.

The people that cut the new glass for me also did that drop target plastic piece. That piece probably takes the most punishment from game play. I got three Lexan spares made, now I just have to work on getting the artwork applied. The Lexan should hold up much better than the original.

The originalThe new

#306 4 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Honestly, you don't have to send the board out to anybody.
There are a lot of good mailorder "board guys", but really, any local pinball tech can get your board fixed in less than a hour.
Join the local league, and there will be 5 guys that can fix it for a few beers.

heh, I wish I were good enough at this to work for beer. I'd definitely be down with that.

Not much of that here, but I do live in farm country. Cows are great at milk, but oscillatin' and solderin'....

meh, not so much

#308 4 years ago
Quoted from Quench:

Note the four lamps in the doodlebug area driven by the AS-2517-67 are 12 volt lamps (921 type), not your standard 6.3 volt lamps.

lol, I learned this the "hard" way by installing 555's in there. The playfield swap was an exercise in chaos at various and sundry times, but it went well

I've got 906's in the four corners now, with 555's still on the sides. And it's a beautiful thing to behold, in self-test and multi-ball

#310 4 years ago
Quoted from scampcamp:

vid1900... thank you very much for the tips and for your encouraging words. I think I made study the game on pinwiki along with what you said and see if I can figure it out.
I am scrambling to figure out what colors of LEDs may look good before midnight tonight. Comet is having a good black Friday sale.
Do people usually just color match the inserts & maybe personalize some other areas for this game? I saw on a TNT amusement YouTube video where they used some (flame) fire looking LEDs that would look neat in this game.

be careful of LED's, as you may get some weird strobing issues. Earlier in this thread there is information on how to rectify that, should you go all in on LED lamps. I've got two LED's on my backbox, on the lower left corner to avoid further damage to some flaking issues I inherited when I purchased this game. Think heat. No issues whatsoever, but that's only two lights soooo.....

You can mix and match whatever colors make you happy. For instance, I have stuck mostly with stock colors throughout the game, but across the top row of lights behind the backglass I went with purple 555's. It, to my perception anyway, darkened up that area ever so subtly. On the two flame chains, I went with Red 555's, except at the flame balls. I went orange there.

I like the way it turned out.

Experiment. And if you are so inclined, bring beer to drink, whilst you marvel at your work as you look at it and get more wonderful and terrible and awful ideas

#312 4 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

If you've never bought LEDs before, remember not to buy Yellow or Orange for inserts - use Warmwhite instead.

Thanks, didn't know that. The more I learn about this stuff, the more I realize I need to learn

It never ends. But I guess that's the fun part

1 week later
#313 4 years ago

kudos to Great American Pinball for their service. I finally found a replacement back glass. It was pricey, but what it would have cost to repair/replicate my old glass, it saved me some money.

Finding a NOS back glass is not the easiest thing in the world these days

Got the glass yesterday and got it installed. Packaged the old one up for storage, it's in rough shape on the lower 1-1.5 inches of the glass. Still very servicable, but now I got a spare and maybe I'll get it fixed.

Or make it into a framed picture, to hang on the wall next to the old playfield picture project I am working on

1 month later
#333 4 years ago
Quoted from arcademojo:

OH YEAH!!! Finally got one. A little rough but that's fine by me.
[quoted image]

Gratz. Welcome to the club.

#334 4 years ago
Quoted from scampcamp:

Would anyone have this plastic Advance “Doomsday” Bonus plastic for sale? It’s on the center drop target. Thanks
[quoted image]

good luck with that piece, any piece for that matter, on this game. But the nice thing is, you can take that piece and get a few pieces cut to that size and thickness in Lexan, which is tougher. Then it's just a matter of working the art to place on it.


that particular piece takes a beating, more than any other on the game imo. The playfield captive ball plastic, mine is warped as well. I have a spare laying around in storage from the spare parts playfield I picked up years ago, but it has the same issue. The one on the game is in the best shape. Probably best to replace it with something new, and then finding (or creating) the art work to apply to the replacement.

#336 4 years ago
Quoted from arcademojo:

You can flatten any plastic by putting it in the oven. Place on cookie paper, heat till it becomes soft then place between two bricks. Let cool down.

would a good t-shirt press accomplish the same thing? Exposure might be an issue, as it is more direct.

How long in the oven, or is that all by "feel"? And what temperature?

6 months later
#378 3 years ago

final resting places for my old playfield and the older backglass. I made the frames out of cedar privacy fence slats. I used the old playfield glass as a cover for the playfield. Treated the cedar with boiled linseed oil.

I'm going to add an engraved plaque on the top with the playfield manufacturing info - 3-31-81 5 5 12 sometime down the road

And I have a spare backglass if something unfortunate ever happens to the newer one in the game
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1 week later
#380 3 years ago

list your games on pinballowners.com, there is a wishlist section. It also lists - by games - owners and whether they would be willing to sell them.

Put it on your wishlist at this site, you'll be notified via e-mail if one comes up for sale. And check ebay, of course.

#381 3 years ago

oh btw, got new instruction cards for my Fireball II from Mad Voodoo. They weren't available when I made an order for my D&D, so I contacted them, they put them into production and they look great


They arrived this morning, along with the cards for my LOTR.

4 weeks later
#402 3 years ago
Quoted from mecanikus:

Hey all I am looking for a replacement playfield for my FB2. Can you guys put me on a lead?

They're hard to come by. But they do pop up from time to time. Keep your eye on ebay. I got mine from a seller in France back in 2007. Also, I would imagine that if one did pop up, it would be expensive.

Flippers.com might be something you would want to look into for restoring your current playfield. Might be worth contacting them.

Good luck.....

Fireball Awaits You!

#403 3 years ago
Quoted from scampcamp:

Do you worry much if your playfield isn't perfect?
I've tried a rag with simple green, magic eraser with 91% alcohol & magic eraser with Naphtha but the dirt/swirl marks are still visible. I'm a little weary about rubbing too hard.
There are some areas that could use touch-ups also but.... maybe it's ok for some games to have a few flaws.... as long as it plays well.
Thanks to Grumpy (Don) it plays like it brand new.
[quoted image][quoted image]

What is it with Fireball II playfields and that type of damage? The pictures you display look NIB, compared to what I had. The game playfield and the spare parts field I found after, were in terrible shape.

1 week later
#418 3 years ago
Quoted from scampcamp:

Are you talking to me about my Same Player Shoots Again light not coming on ?
When I put it in "Lamp Test Mode " all lamps worked... including the Same Player Shoots Again.
I'm not sure why this is the only light that doesn't in attract mode though..... interesting.

That is a result of legal codes, and why the light does not function in attract mode. Pins were classified as gambling devices in many jurisdictions throughout the United States.

Gambling devices/advertisements and things of that nature. The GI light under the left apron at the bottom only flashes when you have available credits.

1 week later
#426 3 years ago
Quoted from scampcamp:

On YouTube videos I see the center Fireball Bonus moves at a more powerful pace than mine does. Is there a way to adjust or fix this? Thanks

Mine had the same issue after the playfield swap, and I asked the same question. It's a rather easy adjustment, and is self-explanatory once you get under there and play around with it.


3 weeks later
#436 3 years ago
Quoted from scampcamp:

When I hit the little demon button once... it goes from 5 right to 1.
Anyone know what may cause this?

Sometimes mine activates when I hit the flippers. I have yet to figure this out, but am leaning towards an issue somewhere in the switch matrix.

A consideration as it pertains to my game: I still have a lot of switches to replace, even though the game seems to be functioning normally with old switches. Still, I have had to troubleshoot several issues of weird behavior during game play. Last night I tracked down a problem to switch 13, which is the C lane. It was making contact while idle, but activating the flippers would cause a score to generate. Starting the game would instantly reward you with 6000 points. Gameplay made it worse.

That switch was close enough to not activate all of the time, but apparently vibration finally caused it to send a constant NC signal to the MPU. I spaced it out a bit, and I may have resolved more than one issue.

Now, whether that has anything to do with what you and I have both experienced with the Little Demon post remains to be seen, but I tend to suspect a switch issue somewhere along the line.

This game vibrates a lot, with three pop bumpers and three banks of drop targets. That is just an assumption on my part, but that is what I am pursuing at the moment.

edit to add

I am running a Callahan Mutha Board MPU. The Activity Switch,which I may be incorrectly assigning the role of a reset switch or SW1 on other MPU's, does not work. It is nigh on impossible to find anybody else with a Callahan MPU these days, which is going to make it very difficult to consider repair, if it comes to that.

I doubt our particular problem is the MPU, but nothing should be ruled out. Wiring could also be an issue, but if the game works with little to no quirky behavior consistently, it's probably not foolish to eliminate the MPU.

Maybe others can weigh in on this.

#438 3 years ago
Quoted from Manu2:

On my Fireball II, I have put some filter with noise suppression on flippers coils and I have separated switch wiring and coils wiring. I have eliminated 90 % of phantom little demon activation. One day, I will separate swith wiring and coil wiring under the playfield too.
I have thought of putting the J5-11 wire on the driver board to J1-4 or J1-6 with a bridge under the board. Because, on the Medusa pinball the wire of the shield of gods is on the J1 connector, and there isn't any problem.

Would it be possible to provide pictures?

Specifically the filter solution you came up with. Hopefully, this doesn't come across as dumb, but I'm not understanding what you mean by separating the switch and coil wiring, in your instance I am assuming whatever you did was in the backbox. Are you talking about the flippers and the post specifically, or are you referring to all (or most) coils and switch wiring in the backbox?

#440 3 years ago

Thanks. I meant to post yesterday that I had found a thread that was on that topic

here - https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/pop-bumper-fires-with-flipper-activity

That is a very good thread, highly technical but still lots of information even for those not that advanced in deep-dive electronic analysis. I messed around with my harness yesterday - without taking the playfield out of the cabinet. I made a mess but did do some segregation, although I don't believe that that is my particular problem with that little demon post, and in light of what I found that I described in my post vis-a-vis my C lane issue.

I'm thinking for right now, what I need to do, before I dig into what you did, that I need to replace all of the switches, especially under the playfield, before I pull it out and segregate that harness properly. I may not need to do that.

That thread is very informative, and there is a solution that involves caps on the flipper switches, as that is relatively painless.

I just went with all of the original equipment when I did the swap, with plans to get it working, then upgrading as part of routine maintenance. Not sure that's the appropriate way to go about it, I was a noob when I did that swap, but I got the game working. But that stuff under there is 35-40 years old. It may be original from the factory, if the shape of my old playfield is an indicator of the level of maintenance this game received before I got it.

edit to add

I'm still not sure that my Callahan MPU isn't some part of the problem, maybe in conjunction with working with the newer Alltek SDB and Lamp Driver board I have in the game. I'm still running the original S&T. I'd love to get an old A4 and see if the issue is still there, but now I'm digging into the weeds and it's always good advice to not overthink (overspend) issues with these older pinball machines.

#442 3 years ago
Quoted from Quench:

Why do you need to replace so many switches? have the contacts lost/damaged their gold plating?

Yes. Plus they're old, I do believe they're factory original, but I can't prove that. This game made it's way to a commercial establishment in Jacksonville/Jacksonville Beach, Florida sometime in 1988-89. It may have spent it's entire life there, there is just no way to discover it's life path from factory to me, not completely at any rate. I still have the tax stamp tags on the cabinet under the playfield. Kept them there because we lived in Jacksonville, and the Jacksonville area, for almost 25 years and I've written a few checks to Lynwood Roberts.

I do not think this game was well maintained, I suspect it spent it's time in one of the bars/restaurants that are on the beach. I make that observation based upon the terrible condition of the original playfield. Plus the original MPU was literally - a piece of crap. Some burnt connectors on the original SDB, a few cracked connectors here and there.... This game was not taken care of. The burn marks around the captive ball area... burn marks in the wood, not just the insulator around that area. Some of the leafs in those switches, while functional, are bent and almost twisted. I also plan on replacing the old white 555 light sockets with the newer versions of them, or just going to 44's. A couple have broken when replacing bulbs.

Stuff under there is just old, but it is a testament to just how durable these games can be, even if not taken care of properly.

Quoted from Quench:

The MPU board "Activity Switch" is for clearing audits back to zero in book-keeping mode. It's the separate "SW33" on factory MPU boards. It's not a reset switch.

Thanks, I came across that in a thread about another pinball game after I made that comment. I wanted to post this past Sunday about a couple of things, but the day had other plans. Found it here - https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/evel-knievel-with-revision-12-muthapcb-not-booting-up - a couple of hours after posting. I have yet to test the activity switch in bookkeeping mode. It's on my short list of things to do.

Quoted from Quench:

Also add capacitors to the flipper end of stroke (EOS) switches which will extend their life and soften flipper high current spikes to reduce the phantom switch matrix issues. Note the capacitors need to be high voltage.
There was some recent discussion about adding capacitors to the flipper button and EOS switches here:

That is what I am leaning towards at the moment. Thanks for the thread link and taking the time to respond.

#444 3 years ago
Quoted from Manu2:

I don't understand too why you want to replace many switches. I've very scarcely replace them. You can clean them with a piece of cardboard, like a coaster. Newest will not work better than the old ones. On some switches, the rapid switches like the fixed targets, tilts, or the bumpers, you need to replace the capacitors.

Some of them are in really bad physical shape, so I figured why not just do all of them. Over time, of course. There is no hurry. I have replaced one pop bumper switch that was giving me fits with phantom pops, that caused other issues down that circuit, to the point of scoring display strobing. The new switch fixed that issue, but it was a pain in the ass to do, as it's the lower of the three. That's a tight fit in there, and also the reason I haven't done the other two yet, in addition to the fact that they have functioned perfectly since the lower replacement.

But being redundant, some of the switches are in really bad physical shape, and while I'm under there, why not upgrade.

That's my thinking, but I'm in no hurry to do a wholesale change, if the game is working. The little demon's occasional hiccup is what resurrected this issue for me again, but honestly, I think that is tied more to the flippers. I did do a complete rebuild of all three flippers earlier this year, including coils. There was nothing wrong with the old coils, so I kept them as spares.

edit to add

I have two old playfields, one hanging in a frame I built on the wall next to the game and my Donkey Kong. The other, is about half depopulated on the underside, and the only switches on either playfield (prior to the swap project) that had capacitors were the three pop bumpers. Not a capacitor to be found (whole or cut) anywhere else under either playfield.

#445 3 years ago
Quoted from Manu2:

On some switches, the rapid switches like the fixed targets, tilts, or the bumpers, you need to replace the capacitors.

I'm being redundant I suppose, but coupled with the edit I added in my last post, this comment on your part is giving me some food for thought

edit to add:

It's my game when it needs maintenance. It's my wife's game when it plays well.

Honey, I might need to order some stuff for Fireball. Her: It's your game, do what you gotta do

we'll keep this between us....

it's really my game


#446 3 years ago

On a related note, sort of, would this - https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/TE-Connectivity-Corcom/20FBL3?qs=%2Fha2pyFadujmFTcYX7dHcqXMAXztGb9WCs6HLa0CvGbDOtseXHZVug%3D%3D

be a suitable power line filter replacement, should I decide to go this route? Is it better than the Sprague's that are in these games? I have a Pac-Man arcade game that has bypassed this filter, but it's still laying in the cabinet. Upon review, it's the same line filter that is in my Fireball II.

Haven't ordered them yet, don't know whether I'm going to (damn things are expensive), even for the Pac-Man game. I recently acquired the Pac game from a local seller.

Just curious.

#448 3 years ago
Quoted from Quench:

The three Odin/Wotan standup targets (back left of the playfield) are also supposed to have capacitors on their switches.

That's expensive. I think the originals were about 5 or 6 amps (can't remember). If you're replacing, go for a 10 amp unit which are half the price and while you're at it you might as well replace the MOV (Metal Oxide Varistor) connected to the filter.

Off the top of your head, do you know what caps should be on those targets? That might explain why I get the occasional non-score when the ball strikes the target plate. Just for giggles, I re-checked the partially de-populated spare parts playfield I have. No caps. Not even a trace of one ever being there.

The original filter reads 2x5 amps.

Funny enough, somebody on ebay is selling Sprague's as "like new".

I'll go with "is new" if I replace it.

#450 3 years ago
Quoted from surfinvet:

Those bulbs are for the auxillary boards which run the flashers on the playfield and around the doodle bug (moving bonus ball). They tell you the boards are working or not

That's interesting, as the light for the board with the heatsink that controls the doodlebug flashers does not work, but the flashers for the doodlebug work in test and in game play during multi-ball release only. They do not flash during bonus collection at any time. Should those four lights flash during normal bonus collection and multi-ball bonus collection (after draining), or should they only flash during multi-ball bonus collection (after the drain).

Anyway, that board lamp to the heatsink board lights in test mode, also.

It's not the bulb, as that was the first thing I checked.

Not a game killer, although I would like those lights flashing during bonus collection if that's what they're supposed to do.

#452 3 years ago
Quoted from Manu2:

I've posted above, that they should'nt flash during collect bonus, only at the beginning of the multiball.

I went through this whole thread prior to my last post, and I missed that. I watched the video you posted and that was what I saw, and what your game is doing, is what my game is doing. I watched the first video in this thread, and thought I saw them flash during bonus collection after multi-ball drain.

Now, I'm also wondering just what the hell happened to the original playfield, to have severe wood burn marks in the four corners where those big flashers are located

I'm going to go back and watch that first video again, to make sure I actually saw what I thought I saw.

#453 3 years ago

I went back and watched the video in post 24 of this thread, and those four big flashers do flash during bonus collection, but that was after a couple of multi-ball drains.

Wish I knew what the board configuration in that game was, all original or all new or a combination of new boards with old boards.

Now I am beginning to wonder if the issue - if it is an issue - may be connected to the little aux driver under the playfield. Btw, does anybody know where to get the S2800A SCR's? I found some at Digitron, but they are S2800M's I believe, and are rated higher than the A's, which that site said are obsolete/discontinued.

My game configuration atm is - Callahan Mutha MPU, Alltek Lamp Driver, Alltek SDB, Original S&T, and original mini boards under the playfield.

#455 3 years ago

put capacitors on the three stand-up targets yesterday. Much improved.

I also replaced the A Lane rollover switch. It was getting buggy, not working from time to time. Still chasing a problem with the Alltek SDB highlighting a short circuit condition on the right slingshot, which disables that sling. Powering off, and powering on the game clears it, but something's up somewhere in that circuit as it always comes back.

For the moment, I'm working the assumption that it's somewhere in the switch matrix so I'll see where that takes me.

#456 3 years ago
Quoted from surfinvet:

Fixed the As-2518-67 flasher board by replacing the SCR at Q1 with an NTE 5643 200v 10a. Soldered a jumper wire covering the burnt trace. Lastly had to replace two of the lamp sockets by the doodlebug and installed 921 bulbs. All is working as it should, thanks for the help guys! Especially Quench!

I asked for a replacement about a week ago, and you gave me my answer last year LOL

#457 3 years ago

From the Alltek SDB Manual

The solenoid number in self test does not match the coil according to my game manual. First check the MPU-J4 connector and the SDB-P4 connector for corrosion and/or broken pins and wires. If the wiring looks good, try another MPU. In rare cases a defective sound board can cause this also by loading the data lines. If the problem goes away when the sound board is disconnected, it is most likely at fault.

Mine never did match, but I disregarded it because the game played. It was always on the back of my mind, but I proceeded with other more immediate and obvious things (replacing switches that were acting flaky, flipper rebuilds, etc.) But over the last couple of months, the right slingshot has been disabled during gameplay. At first it was an occasional thing, but now it does it just about every game, and not coincidentally, after I added the caps to the stand-up targets. According to self-test, the right slingshot is solenoid Q7, but the SDB recognizes it as Q16. Q16 should be the Fireball relay.

I have had a hard time tracking what the game is doing at the exact time that coil is disabled. More research to follow.

All connectors have been re-worked in the backbox. I am tempted to suspect my MPU, but that's just a wild ass guess atm.

edit to add

I disconnected the S&T, and that did not cause the board to match up with the manual identifications

#458 3 years ago


After getting a disabled right slingshot in just about every game (which started after I put the caps on the stand-up targets), I decided to replace some coils, on the three pop bumpers and the Fireball relay coil.

Played approximately 30 games yesterday afternoon and into the evening. The right slingshot was disabled twice, but we did play 16 games in a row without it being disabled.

Does anybody know when Bally stopped producing coils with the Bally logo on the wrap? The old coils that I replaced still have that brown wrap with Bally printed on them, and while it's not necessarily a sign of functionality when it comes to the appearance of a coil, those four coils look old and used up.

An interesting note on the Fireball relay coil (it should be Q16, not the right slingshot). Manual calls for GO-36-6900, but that is obsolete. I put this coil - FO-36-7000 in as a replacement.


It wouldn't fit, as that hub that runs through the middle was too long on the non-threaded side, but about 30 seconds on my grinder, it fit perfectly. And it works well. The doodlebug ball seems a bit more responsive, but that may just be my imagination.

I'm really leaning towards the MPU being the issue, which probably means I'm going to bite the bullet on the Alltek MPU sometime in the near future. The SDB identification of the coils on the board should match the manual.

edit to add:

while I am still in the process of working the switch matrix (banged up switches), I am now fairly certain that whatever this problem is, the switch matrix is probably not the issue.

#459 3 years ago

Some may wonder why I sized down the hub on a coin door lockout coil.

It was all I had on hand yesterday, and I was on a roll with the spare coils I had at the house and said.... what the hell.

#461 3 years ago
Quoted from Quench:

The self test numbers for the solenoid coils has no correlation to the driver transistor Q numbers.
The Fireball relay is driven by driver transistor Q17. What's the exact problem you're trying to fix with it?

The right sling-shot being locked down by the SDB during game play. (edit to add) The right slingshot still scores and chimes, it just doesn't kick the ball.

It was an intermittent issue, until I capped those stand-up targets, then it became just about an every game issue. I replaced the four coils because I had newer coils on hand, and now it's intermittent again. Something else that has just started happening, since early summer to be specific, is that when powering on the game, the MPU test light goes solid green. I'd say this is about 40% of the time, right off the top of my head. A quick toggle of the power switch to off then back on, it boots up just fine.

Which is why some of this other quirky behavior keeps pointing me back to the MPU as the potential culprit. That power-up issue would be tied to the MPU reset circuit, correct?

Assuming that cabling and connectors are all re-worked, right? I have re-pinned all of my backbox connectors.

#464 3 years ago
Quoted from Quench:

So the right slingshot coil isn't activating?
What happens if you very briefly ground the metal tab of driver transistor Q16? does that right slingshot coil fire?

Possibly. Has the MPU board suffered from battery leak corrosion?

It is a Callahan Mutha MPU. It is clean, never any batteries on it. I've had it since early 2007, bought it from Tom brand new, did it over the phone while talking to him and telling him about the dead pinball game I had just purchased. One of the reasons that I'm considering the Alltek is that a lot of pinheads have that MPU, or the original MPU. Not many have the Callahan board as best as I have been able to determine, and if I run out of talent in troubleshooting/diagnosing, I'm not sure who would be willing to work on it.

Played 13 games last night, and the sling did not get deactivated. The improvement between early last week after I put those caps on the stand-up targets and then the four new coils I mentioned earlier, is dramatic. I'm going to proceed with replacing the coils, I'm about 2/3 of the way there now. That power-up issue I described that cropped up a few months ago is not getting better. When I did the soldering during the play-field swap, I wasn't as refined as practice has made me since. I wasn't sloppy or careless, just new. Cleaning up some of the connections and trimming the wired ends may help as well. I'm just guessing now, though.

Thanks Inkochnito, I forgot how thorough your site is. Never even thought to look for those coil wrappers there. I'm kind of enjoying tracking the life of this game. I would not be surprised to find that the coils and switches on the game are at least 30 years old.

#465 3 years ago
coils1 (resized).jpgcoils2 (resized).jpgcoils3 (resized).jpg
#467 3 years ago
Quoted from freddy:

while your replacing coils do vids flipper rebuild upgrade you will be glad you did! its amazing the difference.

Did that back in July. Complete and total rebuild of all three, plus the three on my Dungeons & Dragons. Big difference

I also noticed that the Little Demon issues discussed earlier in this thread picked up the pace after the flipper rebuilds. So, when I'm done with the coils, I'm going to look at reducing the noise from the flippers.

It's annoying when one is playing a decent game and Little Demon credits just go poofy into the ether LOL

#470 3 years ago
Quoted from Quench:

Did you get any schematics with it?

Do you mean the slingshot coil is locking on? If so, isn't it burning up?

No schematics, but I've been told it can be diagnosed using the schematics for the original MPU.

No, the board locks it down and won't let it fire. The silk screen on the board says it has done that because a short-circuit has been detected. I checked after we played the last round of 13 games in a row without it being locked down, and the coil isn't even warm.

Edit to add:

I know of what you are referring to, e.g., a coil burning up. I had an issue with the upper flipper in my D&D pin, and you could smell it. Turned out to be a bad diode on the coil. I put a new diode on that particular coil, and now it doesn't even get warm when used, or held open.

Edit to add, part II

There are two fuses under the playfield on my game, and neither of them are blowing. No fuses on the rectifier board are blowing, either. Blowing fuses on this game since the swap, has not been an issue at all, unless I did something stupid. I only did that once

#471 3 years ago
Quoted from freddy:

Never had a little Demon issue

I have always had an intermittent issue with an occasional fire during game play. It got worse when I rebuilt the flippers. Could be coincidence, or maybe not.

Right now, I just don't know, but it is the least of the few issues I have atm. From what I have learned, it is a problem some FB II owners have, and for others, not so much.

Edit to add:

This is just pure speculation on my part, but I keep thinking back to the burn marks on the original playfield underside wood around the doodle-bug, caused by the big flasher bulbs. And the burnt and cracked connectors that were the original connectors from factory on the game.

This game was not treated well, nor cared for professionally, imo.

#473 3 years ago

You're not confusing (or misusing) the term, I am. And yes, you understand correctly.

Sorry for the confusion.

Powering down the game, and powering it back up clears the disabling of the coil.

Thanks for the thread link.

Edit to add:

Over the weekend, I pulled all of the MPU chips from their sockets for inspection and to re-seat them. They all look remarkably good. Nothing feeble, nothing bent, nothing burned or tinted from over-heating, etc. Tom put some heavy duty sockets on his boards.

#474 3 years ago

Measured the 82 -1W resistor at R11, it's reading 86.4, with leads reversed 74.8.

Hot to the touch, too.

Edit to add:

very difficult to find for sale, too.

#476 3 years ago
Quoted from Quench:

R11 operates at max power - Bally underspecced it. On top of that, the Callahan board uses a physically small version of that resistor so it runs even hotter having less mass to dissipate the heat.
I always replace it with a 3 watt version. You can find them on ebay.

So when does the slingshot coil become disabled?
The coil has a diode on it? The diode is good? (not shorted) and it's installed the right way around? - banded diode side towards the yellow wires.

Hope this doesn't seem to be a dumb question, but could I use a 100-110 ohm 1 or 2 watt resistor instead? I have a bunch of those on hand. Or would that be too much of a hindrance on the circuit? Thanks for the tip. I'll check e-bay.

Yeah, the coil is good. As far as I can determine, at any rate. Wires are connected correctly. It's new, got it from Marco, and is the coil the owner's manual specifies for the slingshots.

#478 3 years ago

Thanks, that's very helpful. 470 ohm 1 watt? I believe I have some resistors in that range. When the game doesn't power up, before cycling the power switch a second time to get it to power up, the test light just goes solid green. No blinks, nada. Just right to solid green.

I may try that swap, unless continued play doesn't disable that coil at the SDB. Put three more new coils on the game yesterday: the left slingshot and the two saucers. Played last night, 15-20 games and that sling coil was not disabled. The little demon is still acting up, but I'm becoming more convinced that it is the flippers that instigate that. I'm going to save that for last.

I'd probably replace the transistor myself, if it ends up being the culprit.

#479 3 years ago

Don't have any 470 ohm 1 watt resistors available. Tried a 470 ohm 2 watt resistor. Too much, the board wouldn't boot up. Two slow green blinks and pfffftttttt......

Put the old one back on and it's fine now. Time to do some math.

#480 3 years ago

For now, went with a 150 ohm 1 watt resistor. Measured 16.59vdc at the front of it, 5.68vdc at the end of it. That's a bit higher than the original, coming out of the resistor. The origina read 5.04vdc coming out the end of it.

All coils have been replaced, with the exception of the three drop target banks and the coin door lockout. I have a coin lockout coil and one drop bank coil coming my way.

I'll play it tonight and see what it does. I had to power the game down 5-6 times while I was replacing the coil and doing some other stuff. The MPU booted up solidly the first time every time. I'll be interested to see if that continues.

edit to add

Quench you are correct about the two fuses under the playfield, btw. One for the doodlebug and one for the coils.

#482 3 years ago

I'm fairly comfortable doing that, but I may just send it off if the problem persists. Alltek boards have a lifetime warranty and they stand behind it. Played 12-15 games last night, and the right slingshot was not shut down by the SDB.

I'm assuming the transformer is wired properly for wall voltage, I have paid little attention to that end of the game to this point in time, although earlier this week, I did put a new line filter in and changed the varistor as well. I have a new rectifier board in there, but one of the last things I need to do is re-pin the connectors at the board. I'm using the old rectifier board as a spare.

For what it's worth, the original resistor on that MPU measured around 15.5vdc at the front end.

#483 3 years ago

Are metal film resistors ok to use?

edit to add:

You say this new resistor is consuming 0.8 watts. You divide 12 (the line voltage - 11.99 in the schematic) by 150 (the rating of the resistor), yes? I get 0.08 when doing that, what am I missing?

Found some 82 ohm, 3 watt metal film resistors, six bucks and some change for 20, and some 82 ohm, 2 watt resistors, another six bucks and some change for 50.

Got both, might be good to have on hand anyway.

#485 3 years ago
Quoted from Quench:

Can you post a picture of the wire voltage jumper block next to the transformer? the block is where the mains fuse is.

Yes, a metal film resistor is perfectly fine to use.

The voltages you listed across the new 150 ohm resistor were: "16.59vdc at the front of it, 5.68vdc at the end of it".
16.59 - 5.68 = 10.91 volts across the resistor.
Ohms law says current is voltage divided by resistance:
10.91 / 150 = 0.727 amps through the resistor
Power is calculated as voltage times current:
10.91 * 0.727 = 0.793 watts (I rounded it up to 0.8 watts)
Hope that makes sense.

Yes that makes sense, I was missing some of the math. I didn't factor the difference between the values across the resistor. Thanks.

trfmr1 (resized).jpgtrfmr2 (resized).jpg
#489 3 years ago
Quoted from Quench:

I need to see where the two top orange wires are located on that connector to determine the transformer input voltage selection.
[quoted image]

LOL.... sorry. I had about five things going yesterday when I read the post and then subsequently took the pictures. Over-engineered the process....

Ironically, one of them was an orange tractor

trfmr3 (resized).jpg
#490 3 years ago
Quoted from RONR11:

Will a fireball Classic backglass work in a fireball 2? I see the game over is wrong. But not a biggie

First off, welcome to the club, this is a great game.

How bad is the original glass? Could you post a picture. I am assuming, at a minimum, that you have flaking at the bottom. This is not uncommon in older Bally games from what I have learned by surfing pinball forums.

BGResto can probably do a repro of that glass, but you will have to send the backglass to them. Personally, I wouldn't use the back-glass from another game if it were avoidable, but that really is up to you and it is your game

I recommend BGResto because I have had personal experience with them, but there may be others out there that are just as reputable and offer good work. They will repro your backglass for $300, which includes shipping, or you can surf the Internet and see if one comes up for sale. They do show up from time to time. I found one a year ago, NOS and in great shape. I didn't even hesitate to click on Add to Cart. Ended up costing me $300, plus twenty for shipping.

Good luck and enjoy the game.

edit to add:

I ended up building a cedar wood frame, and I hung the old back-glass on the wall in the spare bedroom. I think there's a picture of it somewhere in this thread.

#492 3 years ago

Re-pinned all of the rectifier board connectors today, on the harness side. The board is only a year old. I didn't mess around with the block connector. I'll get that later.

I am assuming that there is no reason to configure it for 120 when I do finally get to that connector.

1 week later
#495 3 years ago

Finally broke down and got the Alltek MPU and the diagnostic board. That little thing is handy.

I also ordered most of the reset circuit parts for Tom's board, as I want to try to repair it so I have a spare. Even before I got the new MPU, the right slingshot did not get shut down by the SDB again.

I'm guessing that new coils had a bit to do about that.

Also, does anybody know of anybody that reproduces wire harnesses for these games? I'd like to re-work my harness, but I'm really feeling lazy right now and would pay somebody to do it if the price is reasonable.

#502 3 years ago

Got to messing around with the harness yesterday. So far this is where I'm at with wire separation. The question I have is that three wire connector in the backbox. There is a solenoid wire there, along with two other wires from the MPU that controls the Little Demon. The solenoid wire is Q5, which is the center drop targets, which is also connected to the Little Demon bonus.

Why is that connector there, it looks as though all of the wires could just be a straight run, with no need for the connector. Was that in every Fireball II? Does everybody else who has this pin, have that connector?

It's still somewhat of a mess under the backbox, as I'm doing what I can without taking the playfield out. I'm not seeing any reason that is obvious for that connector to be there, and it would aid in separation if it's not necessary.

backboxharness (resized).jpg
#504 3 years ago

Sometimes I get a bit "yappy" in my posts, while trying to be thorough and I leave stuff like that out. Sorry, I'm a work in progress

The other two wires go to J2 on the MPU, and feed down to the playfield. If that connector were not there, it would present no issues if the playfield needed to be removed from the game.

edit to add:

Played six games last night and the Little Demon post behaved itself. I guess I will see what I will see.

#506 3 years ago

I put that connector in. I also changed other connectors in the backbox (harness only) to the Mate N Lock types, because I was in somewhat of a hurry to get the game done (grandkids), which was at the tail end of the the summer of 2018. The playfield swap began in earnest the 2nd week of June that summer, and I was still troubleshooting things at the end of August, although the game could play. Most of my issues at that time were switches causing the displays to strobe.

I couldn't find the original style, but knew I could go back and rework them. The originals are .64's, I went with .84's.

The issues I have been noticing are three, and they have been consistent:

In addition to the Little Demon post which I have already discussed, from time to time when the ball goes in the Odin saucer and kicks the ball out, the Little Demon post will activate OR a new ball will be kicked out for play. The other issue involves the out lane (on the C Lane side of the game), where every once in a while, after the ball rolls over the switch toward drain, the game will make the Fireball sound that you hear when inserting a quarter for play.

It's not an MPU issue, does the same thing with the Alltek, but the occurrences have been decreasing since I started replacing the coils.


I don't know. I'm assuming that there is a connection, but not necessarily the cause. Newer stuff replacing 35-40 year old stuff.

I've relegated them to KI's (known issues) and am proceeding from there. I may re-pin those backbox harness connectors. I'm getting pretty good at re-pinning(it's almost fun), and since some of those wires are smaller gauges (when compared to 0.84 connector pins) even a slightly off crimp might not have been tight enough. I was a bit rough around the edges when I started this project. I didn't know what I didn't know.

That's my theory atm.

fyi - the Alltek SDB was reading the same voltage at the 180vdc test point as it was at the 230vdc test point. Sent it back and got it repaired/replaced. Not sure why that happened, as I haven't blown but two fuses in that game, both before I put any Alltek boards in. I think I'm going to replace the fuse holders under the playfield. I wish I could get another set of eyes on my work.

I don't think I have serious issues, but they are annoying issues

Sorry so long, wanted to be thorough.

#508 3 years ago

I tend to agree with you vis-a-vis the switch matrix, which is a lot of the reasoning behind comments I made some time back about wanting to replace switches. Again, 35-40 year old stuff. I'm wondering about vibration causing odd and intermittent switch contact/activation as well.

I have seen my upper flipper in D&D not engage, yet by eye contact, the contacts are in the normal position, e.g., NC. This was after a complete flipper rebuild, too. Fireball II did the same thing not long after (this was earlier this year), the lower right flipper. I just gently pressed the contacts together (same issue, they looked as though they were touching) and it hasn't happened since.

Maybe something of the nature of a reverse effect is occurring during game play, switches that are normally open are close enough to cause some issue down line.

I don't know, just putting it out there.

I have done something similar to your reverse order switch test. I did it randomly, in test mode. Just hit one here, one there, multiple times through all switches, to see if I could get the displays to strobe. All switches register (and registered) their proper number. And another little funny experience, related to your suggestion: when I had the issue with the display's strobing, I learned the hard way how a switch matrix works. The lowest number reported isn't necessarily the problem child

edit to add:

the strobing problem I had in August 2018 ended up being related to the B Lane rollover. Thing is, it wasn't the switch per se, as I put a new switch in and still did the same thing. I ended up tinkering with the mount that holds the switch and rollover in place, and that resolved the problem. In some ways, I think I'm still paying for the lack of care this game received prior to me saving it


#509 3 years ago

You nailed it, Quench. The problem was somewhere in the switch matrix.

The Odin Saucer was wired incorrectly, which goes all the way back to the playfield swap. I feel fortunate that this is only the second mistake I made during the swap. The other wiring mistake involved the Fireball bonus light ring, specifically number 4 and number 6.

The wiring to the Odin saucer switch was bass-ackwards in two places, two wires on the top leaf needed to be on the middle leaf, and the diode between the middle leaf tab and the top leaf tab needed to be reversed, with banded side towards the top instead of the middle. The middle leaf is not a full length leaf, only being as long as the separators.

Little Demon is behaving better, not perfectly, but better. We have only 10-12 games since yesterday, but so far so good.

I'm using 1N4004 diodes on all of the switches. The schematic calls for 1N4148, which is rated lower than the 04's. I am making the assumption that this is not an issue.

The C-Lane is using a two leaf switch with no diode, it is the only rollover switch configured that way.

#511 3 years ago

I segregated the wiring from the backbox down to right where it rolls on to the playfield. Looks a little messy under there when the playfield is up, and I don't think it's perfect, but it is segregated.

When I separated the harness in the cabinet, I made sure that the Little Demon wiring did not get tied back in to any harness. Haven't changed the wiring just yet, but it's on the list to do.

It behaved very nicely last night. No phantom pops in the last dozen games.

Interestingly enough, I fried a transistor on the Alltek Lamp Driver, Q58 when I was rewiring the Odin saucer switch. What happened is a blob of solder dropped on to Odin qualified lamp, but I didn't see it and powered up the game and the lamp was off. Verified it as a board issue by plugging in my old Bally Lamp driver. I didn't even see the blob of solder, but I heard something drop, but thought it landed in the cabinet. Those mofset transistors are easy to replace, btw.

I'm going to order new switches, or find a source with individual leafs and build them. That C Lane switch is definitely getting re-worked, and I want to replace the two chime switches on the playfield, the one up top and the other one located on the right side, off of the Wotan saucer lane.

Thanks for the cleaning tip, too.

edit to add:

Had I more experience with these games, when I decided to do the playfield swap, I would have picked up the difference in that rollover switch compared to the others. My approach ended up being to just get the old stuff off the old playfield, and on to the new.... and then proceed from there.

Like I've said several times, I didn't know what I didn't know.

#512 3 years ago

The two fuses under the playfield:

Everything I've read when it comes to spec stuff, only refers to one under the playfield. Any thoughts on whether this was a practice by Bally, or a later mod by an owner/operator?

#513 3 years ago

Chalked up almost two dozen games last night. The Little Demon only mis-behaved once, and that was on a button push, going from five credits to two.

I think I may have resolved most of the Little Demon issues, so will be interesting to see what happens when I replace that rollover switch and redo the wiring for the LD post.

#515 3 years ago

I separated - as best I could without taking the playfield out of the game - the wiring that runs from the SDB connecters from the wiring that runs from the MPU connectors. Instead of one big happy harness going to the backbox, it now has several. Some of the wires, as you noted, were interwoven in ways that would require me taking the playfield out to separate properly, which I just don't want to do at this point. It's not the prettiest looking result, but it seems to be effective. The only oops I managed was the P2 (J2 on the original) connector on the SDB. I have to unplug it from the board if I want to put the playfield all the way up, leaning against the backbox.

I was also surprised at the pull on many of the connectors on the MPU and SDB when the playfield was in it's normal position. I was able to provide some relief to that stress as well.

The Little Demon wiring is laying all by itself in the cabinet, plus I separated it as best I could from the MPU to the switch that activates it in the cabinet. I may try to neat it up a bit more. I haven't worked any wiring under the playfield as of yet. If it keeps playing the way it has been since I corrected the wiring mistake with the saucer switch, I may not worry about it.

Thanks for the thoughts on the fuses, that was, more or less, what I had assumed, other than the magnet. That makes sense and is nice to know.
backbox1 (resized).jpgbackbox2 (resized).jpgcabinetwiring (resized).jpglittledemonwiring (resized).jpglittledemon (resized).jpg

#516 3 years ago

btw, another question.

Were any Fireball II's manufactured with a Little Demon post light?

#518 3 years ago

Thanks, I wondered about that.

It is mis-behaving from time to time, but I have only noticed it when pressing the button to activate it. Most of the time it's fine, but sometimes a press will use up two, and sometimes three credits.

The phantom pops are getting rarer and rarer.

But I will see what I will see as time goes on. Still some work to be done in that area.

#519 3 years ago

I made a change to the rubber on the middle drop target posts, pulling the called for 2 inch diameter rubber, replacing it with the 1.5 inch diameter rubber. The bigger rubber ring was causing the targets to bounce off the rubber and not drop on direct hits far too often for my liking. When I drilled the holes for the four posts, I probably should have drilled them another 1/16 of an inch closer to that bottom pop bumper, although it's pretty tight in there as it is.

So far so good on that.

The game is playing well, the players.... meh.... not so much at the moment

I also had an issue show up about 10 days ago, involving almost all of the playfield lamps not working. Everything from the top right pop bumper over to Wotan qualifying arrows and all of the lamps on the bottom half of the playfield, plus the credit indicator lamp under the apron.

Sometimes playing a game would activate them, other times nothing. Lifting the playfield for inspection would sometimes re-light them. This just started to occur regularly about ten days ago. I did notice it one time over the summer, for the first time since the swap, so I knew the issue wasn't board related, but it never recurred until recently. We've been playing the game a lot which is probably why it started to manifest itself now. I used automobile connectors, made for 14-16 gauge wire, in that area after I completed the swap. I noticed they were browning in the middle when I was changing out the coils and made a note to revisit that area at some point in the not too distant future. That point came this past Friday.

There was a voltage drop on the stapled line under the playfield that feeds the lamps, I was getting between 0.999vdc and 1.3vdc, whereas I was getting 7.3vdc on the other line at the top of the playfield. The connectors on two of the wires (the navy blue wire) were obviously starting to fail. I don't like those connectors, but I used them after the swap because that was all I had, and I was working bigger issues at the time. One of those wires runs to that two lamp stapled line for the Wotan arrows. So I cut them off, powered on the game and the lamp issue appeared. Problem solved. New connectors and some solder to reinforce and good to go.

My inventory now includes proper wire connectors for the various gauges of wire used in the harness.

#521 3 years ago
Quoted from Quench:

In that case try putting a 0.047uF capacitor across that little demon button switch in the cabinet.
BTW does your switch have a diode on it? The cabinet schematic doesn't show one.

It does have a diode on it. I replaced every diode when I did the playfield swap, with 1N4004's.

4 weeks later
#522 3 years ago

The Little Demon post is behaving very nicely. I think the problem is, mostly, resolved.

Now, to work on the controllers who push the flipper button and play this game....

not sure there's a cure for that

1 month later
#526 3 years ago

I have to concur with Jappie, that game is in remarkably good shape for a FBII. You can scroll through this thread and find my personal two examples of a bad playfield, that apparently lacked care or even a modicum of attention over their lives. The cabinet looks better than mine does.

Is there a backglass? I'm assuming there is, I didn't notice one in the pictures. Whoever ends up owning that game, I'd recommend one of two things:

Clearcoat the playfield. With care and patience, it can be done without stripping the entire playfield. Care and patience. I used KBS diamond coating and am quite happy with the result, considering my inexperience. It was a tedious project - I spent almost four months on it, Jan-April 2019. I think I ended up having some curing issues in the upper left corner of the game, and I relegate that to inexperience and the time of year, even though I did it in a reasonably controlled environment, e.g., the room it sits in for play. That's the nice thing about brush-clearing, you can do it indoors, if there is no option or mechanism to move the game somewhere else. I cracked a window and wore a face mask, but it wasn't necessary, there was hardly any hint of smell or odor. Hindsight tells me that I should have waited til late spring and moved it to my front porch. That would have had the downside of breezes and dust, but also warmer air and sunshine. Additionally, I have four acres and a big house and spring is when a lot of outdoor projects and just day to day stuff have to take priority.


Buy a playfield protector.

I almost wish I could buy it for the spare parts, but I just can't do that right now. How much are you asking, or going to ask. You can PM me if you wish. I'm just curious.

The brush clear turned out well enough, considering that wasn't the best option and I didn't know what I was doing. I started getting ghosting spots up around the three stand-ups and that area by that side of the pop bumpers, probably about a month after finishing the clear. Lots of banging around going on in that area, especially off of that upper flipper. The rest of the field turned out fine, even with the 8 inch ball drop test, but I decided, right after my recent adventures y'all can read about earlier in this thread, to try to fix it. I was able to undo some of the clear with very very minor paint damage.... just that upper area and corner.

I was somewhat successful, but then decided to go with a playfield protector. I still have some buffing to do up there, but decided I just wanted to play the game for a while. This fall or winter, I plan to take the protector off, and buff out some of the rough spots that I left in place because I'd had it. This game has been a restoration project since June, 2018. I did not know what I did not know, about playfield swaps, clearcoating, the whole nine yards, but I dove into it anyway

Hindsight tells me now that I should have cleared the playfield before I did the swap, but as I said: I didn't know what I didn't know. Someday, maybe I'll write a book about what I learned by tackling this particular pin the way I did

Time to play it and have fun.

btw, on that note.... Approximately 100 games played since my last post, and the Little Demon has not mis-behaved once. Not once. We're quite happy with that.

2 months later
#536 2 years ago

That's a bit steep I think. Having said that, these things are so hard to come by, it's probably worth it to somebody that has a playfield that was torn up as badly as my original was. I would probably pay it, were I in dire straits. I was able to get the replacement for my swap for $600, plus another $50 or so (I forget now) for shipping, and that was from France.

That was also back in 2008.

3 weeks later
#555 2 years ago

In reference to Jappie's last post, you'll probably smell the coil when it really gets hot. It's not a pleasant, nor welcome, smell either.

2 years later
#588 5 months ago
Quoted from Evel-Rider:

Thanks for your help Inkochnito ! That’s what I wanted to hear ‘Fireball Awaits You’ (but I can imagine it gets on your nerves, intervals are pretty short haha).

I have noticed the intervals vary. Sometimes they come in relatively quick sequence, at other times quite a bit of time elapses between.

I remember the first time I moved the machine after I got it up and functioning, and it tilted. I had just recently completed the playfield swap, and finishing the testing for issues phase and then an idle game sitting in attract mode does the bwa-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha thing....

my reaction being WTF NOW!!!!

#589 5 months ago

The remote volume control on the coin door is a 10K ohm potentiometer, correct?

#591 5 months ago

Thanks, Quench.

Something long neglected on my FBII was the coin door. It was dirty with rust and a lot of dust in the coin rejection chute. The volume on the game is flaky. All sounds are working but I have a consistent issue with the volume 'adjusting' itself. I suspect the issue is with the S&T. I replaced the caps and pot on it a bit over three years ago, and ran into an issue with the traces for the onboard pot. Sent it off for repair and it's been fine, but that pot was always flaky, even before I took the soldering iron to the board. I may go with a new pot on the door anyway, I am assuming that what is on the door is probably 42 years old. Still have a little work to do on the left side, I didn't feel like tearing the whole thing down yesterday. As it was, it was a 2-3 hour job.

Anyway, my door looks much cleaner, and I even touched it up with some red paint, after cleaning the bigger pieces in an ultrasonic cleaner.
IMG_6713 (resized).jpgIMG_6714 (resized).jpg

#594 5 months ago

It's the overall volume, effects and voice. What is good for cleaning the door pot? 91% rubbing alcohol? Electronic cleaner?

geeteoh, one of your new sound boards is destined for this machine, I'm just trying to get as much mileage out of the S&T as I can. It's the last original stock board in the game, and I'm kind of sentimental about it, but.... all things come to an end eventually.

Finished cleaning the door today, took the front apart, the hinge inside was rusty as hell. Soaked it in the ultrasonic cleaner, then took a steel brush to it, followed by a session with my palm sander, 150 grit. Cleaned up real nice. Did the best I could with the door hinge, without taking it off the machine. Don't really want to go there. I recently replaced the skin on my Fireball coin door, and that's enough door work for the moment.

I did all that work, starting in 2018 with the playfield swap. All new connectors. Segregated the harness as best I could to cut down on the Little Demon firing on it's own. Cleaned up the steel and metal as best as possible, then just kind of left the coin door to languish in rust and dust LOL. It never gave me a problem. These things are tough, they don't make stuff like this anymore. This game saw some abuse during it's life, glad it's got a good home now.

#597 5 months ago

Thanks guys, appreciate the tips.

#598 5 months ago

Meant to post a few days ago. Got the pot cleaned. What was the purpose of that brown grease? Looks like it was put there deliberately.

1 week later
#602 4 months ago

I was messing around with some LED's in the backbox last night. The cool whites really bring out the purple'ish colors. My glass is newer, found it approximately four years ago. It had some minor scrapes, but nothing serious. I have read that heat was a big killer for the cheaper paint jobs done on games such as this, so LED's are definitely the ticket, not to mention newer boards to run the game.

I wish there were a way to safely protect the paint on the glass. I did a side by side comparison of this glass with my Fireball glass. They really got cheap with the glass artwork between 1972 and 1981. The difference between the quality of the two is significant. Not really a fan of LED's in the playfield, Fireball II is a pretty flashy game with normal lights, but gotta admit I like the color enhancement with the LED's in the backbox, in addition to the benefits they will provide for the artwork.

1 month later
#603 87 days ago

Is there a suitable magnet coil replacement for the Fireball Unit, part number E-184-283?

1 week later
#604 76 days ago

LED's under the playfield really bring this game alive. WOW!!!

I do not have the entire playfield converted yet, it is complete through the Fireball Bonus ring. The backbox is all LED, save the fire comet trail. Changing all those bulbs in the bonus areas is tedious and stress inducing. There are a lot of lights clustered in that one small area.

I got a reminder of why I have not yet changed all of the lamp fixtures underneath the playfield. Those old fixtures seem to be working quite well, I didn't find any sign of brittleness or tearing in the areas where they need to be bent out to change a bulb. I probably need to do that one day, but it's going to be a big huge pain in the butt

1 week later
#606 65 days ago
Quoted from Melvindehond:

Hello FB 2 friends. I got mine this weekend and have a question about the knocker. It does not knock on match or in test mode. One green wire seems to be cut.off the coil. See picture. Can I just solder the green wire to the other green wire? And need I install a diode?
[quoted image]

Yes. And put a diode on it. IN4004, iirc.

#607 65 days ago

I have heard rumors that some folks don't like big loud knockers.... never understood that mentality.

The knocker assembly in this machine is cool, it actually strikes a metal plate. I rigged up a similar setup in my Dungeons & Dragons. I put a bigger coil in my Fireball, but am still on the search for a workable metal strike plate.

And of course, Lord of the Rings simulates the knocker sound.

#608 65 days ago

I have a dilemma.

I want to paint the cabinet. After successfully painting my Fireball with PP's stencils last fall and seeing how good it looks, I can't look at FBII and wonder....

my dilemma: Now I know how much work it takes and I don't want to tear it all down to paint

1 week later
#609 56 days ago

Has anybody installed the Britemod flipper button kit in their machine? If so, what did you think? Did it function properly and look good?

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