(Topic ID: 319772)

Fireball - fourth player not working

By jlbintn

1 year ago


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  • 57 posts
  • 9 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 year ago by jlbintn
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

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#15 1 year ago
Quoted from jlbintn:

So, the adjustments are all related to the flippers? I'm trying to be sure I understand which switches need to be adjusted so the lock catches and holds the flippers closed.

Will yours close electronically but not stay latched?
For my The Wiggler which has zipper-flippers, the manual has an "effective adjustment for moveable flippers" page https://www.ipdb.org/files/2777/The_Wiggler.pdf

"Clays Guide" http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index1.htm is a great resource on working on these machines ! fixing gummed up steppers & cleaning rivits ect.

sounds like the machine is mostly working an being enjoyed so only deal with ""one crisis at a time""
you get 4'th player to "coin-up" ? I suspect gummed up "coin unit" stepper

ball 3 lamp not working fixed? I suspect dirty rivet on "ball count unit" --- or a dirty socket

credit stepper stops at 10 credits ? ... there is a moveable stop post to limit the credit wheel to either 10-15-20 or 25 credits .... "Clays Guide" can instruct you how to set the machine to "free-play" if you wish

keep us posted

1 week later
#23 1 year ago
Quoted from jlbintn:

Got the zipper switch adjusted, it closes properly, only thing that reopens the flippers is hitting that mushroom again. Tilting the machine, ball drain down the out-hole or hitting the other two mushrooms does not open them. To avoid the coil getting overheated, I must tap that mushroom. Even powering off the machine does not cause them to reopen.
For the close flipper solenoid EOS switch, when it goes back to the open position, should the two leaf blades on the bottom (as per sizteves photo) still be in contact?
Some other symptoms, maybe related, maybe not:
The 1000 score relay sticks from time to time. The 10 score relay sticks on any hit that would score 10 points. I have to open it with a business card to keep it from burning up.
The only commonality is that all of this started after I had the playfield up to rebuild the flippers.
On the relay coils, is there an acceptable equivalent for the G-30-1500?

It kind of sounds like the latch mechanism isn't quite adjusted right, you say hitting the "close flipper" ""M-B"" (mushroom bumper) again will open the flippers when they are closed?
Bally Fireball open flippers (resized).jpgBally Fireball open flippers (resized).jpg
So when they are closed, to energize the "open flipper" coil the "close flipper EOS" switch needs to be closed and ANY of the following switches need to close;

the "open flipper relay" energized by the either Odin or Wotan M-B,
the tilt relay
the game over relay
or "the 3'rd ball" relay ... balls 1& 2 might be under the apron already or ball 1 in Odin or Wotan with Ball 2 under apron ect.

Typing all that out leads me to think it's the close flipper EOS switch as sizteves suspects

from my Joust ...

OpenIMG_2501 (resized).JPGIMG_2501 (resized).JPG

Closed IMG_2502 (resized).JPGIMG_2502 (resized).JPG

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
look for a missing spring on your 10 pt. relay -OR- does it do this on all 4 players ? if not the EOS switch on the offending players 10 pt. score reel

guessing EOS switch on 1,000 pt. reel as well

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Steve at The Pinball Resource has that G30-1500 coil in stock http://www.pbresource.com/coilbly.html

Bally Fireball open flippers (resized).jpgBally Fireball open flippers (resized).jpg

#26 1 year ago
Quoted from jlbintn:

[quoted image][quoted image]
First picture is open, second is closed
Edit to add:
noticed while testing, if I do not hit one of the mushroom bumpers (Odin, Wotan), hitting the blue mushroom (while flippers are closed) does nothing. I hit one of the other two mushrooms (doesn't matter which) then hit the blue mushroom, the flippers open.
Upon further review: the buzzing from the zipper's coil is because it is attempting to open after a drain or hit on Odin/Wotan. So, it is trying to open

The plastic latch could have a burr or something causing it to hang up or something in the sliding gizmos .... it should move manually smoothly.

first picture is me pushing the flippers closed:IMG_2503 (resized).JPGIMG_2503 (resized).JPG

Next is me releasing the catch: IMG_2504 (resized).JPGIMG_2504 (resized).JPG

see that things operate smoothly

Yeah I wished I still had a Fireball , it looks like your switch stack is different from my Joust

I DID notice the lowest set of blades do NOT change state with either open or closed, tighten the screws before adjusting is always a good habitbally fireball zipper 0 (resized).jpgbally fireball zipper 0 (resized).jpg

I suppose all 4 10 pt. score reels EOS's could be mis-adjusted to where they never open Bally Fireball 10pt re (resized).jpgBally Fireball 10pt re (resized).jpg

#34 1 year ago

That game is over 50 years old, giving it a short break will be defiantly ok. I was totally overwhelmed with my first machine ( a Capt. Fantastic and The Brown Dirt Cowboy )

I wished I lived closer, they can be real head-scratchers at times

#38 1 year ago
Quoted from jlbintn:

Looking at the springs in the pictures provided, I see what you are suggesting. Any suggestions on a replacement, primarily where I could fine one? Anybody know the part number for that spring?

https://online.fliphtml5.com/vrtyz/wmrn/#p=172

""SP-100-252""

I would call Steve at Pinball resource first myself ... but see one here https://www.bestofpinball.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=135_213_328&products_id=12632&language=en

2 weeks later
#42 1 year ago
Quoted from jlbintn:

For the most part, it's working fine. The spring wasn't the only issue I eventually dealt with, the coil was a bit weak so I replaced it when the spring arrived.
Question.
What would cause the armature to stick to the coil after the flippers open? Doesn't do it all of the time, but pretty sure it's not (small) spring related. I have to push it off, and by push I mean not much, as there is barely any resistance, but there is some resistance there. As a result, it takes a couple of attempts on the mushroom to break it free before it will close again.
Measured the close coil on the zipper, it's reading 8.5 - 9 ohms, so good there. I cleaned up the entire unit - it was a greasy mess. Installed new nyliners as well.
Anyway, progressing nicely and it is, basically playable now (again)

The catch plate may be magnetized ? I think I was able to check one with a screwdriver ( had to make sure it wasn't the screwdriver that wasn't magnetized with something else :p ) my solution may have been to use hook the next loop on the armature spring

#44 1 year ago
Quoted from jlbintn:

Definitely magnetized, just enough too. I don't know that I want to mess with that spring, until I can secure a replacement. Right now, it's down to having to hit the mushroom once to pull that armature up. That's a quirk I can live with until another solution comes along.

During play, when the ball hits the mushroom, nudge the machine at the same exact time ( a downward hit with both palms on the lockdown bar shouldn't affect the tilt-bob )

I may also have removed the magnetized armature plate & whacking it with a hammer a few times to try & De-magnitize it.

#50 1 year ago
Quoted from jlbintn:

Some shots. Odin lane is the worst of the wear on the playfield. Would love to find a stencil. Or, color me crazy, if I could find a playfield I might just roll with a swap.
Edit to add:
The playfield was pretty dirty when I got the game. Fifty years old, no surprises obviously. We tried to clean it up as best we could, but some of the dark marks in areas were just not coming up so we did what we could and then invested in a playfield protector. Every once in a while we have issues with the buttons, specifically the 10 point buttons getting trapped because the protector shifts ever so slightly. Eventually I'll try to trim them out just a bit, but it's not happening often so that can wait.
Anyway, still looking for a photo on the posts that can be placed at the outlanes to make draining harder. It was referenced in the manual, but I have yet to find the illustration it refers to, FO-320, which is on page 7 under Playfield Panel Post Adjustments. Unless that is referring to something entirely different. Right now, the game is "set" to Easier.
Ball 5 issue is/was related to the Ball Count Unit. I cleaned it up some, lots of black crap came off. I suspect grease from the zipper unit.
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

Yeah I can't find "FO-320" image in the manual either , I think it refers to the posts under the slingshot plastics ... had to steel a pic off of a go0gle

Fireball post adjustment (resized).jpgFireball post adjustment (resized).jpg
#52 1 year ago
Quoted from jlbintn:

Yeah, I think you are correct and was leaning in that direction myself. Outside of drilling holes to push them a bit further up....
not really sure I want to do that to a 50 year old playfield, and I'm not sure the plastics would look right with the upper posts extended, even a little bit.
I think I'm going to clean the spinner cogs. There was a lot of gunked up grease globs on there. They have a black look to them. I changed out the ball plunger spring yesterday, and even it had a greasy feel to it, all the way up the rod to the tip. Somebody really liked grease.

yeah the brass gears are NOT supposed to have any grease ( I think that's what you mean by "spinner cogs")

http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index3.htm#motor

There IS a felt pad on the motor and a "fine oil" is meant there ....
10 drops from a chart in this thread ... https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/the-secrets-of-atlantismy-resto-thread#post-2064172

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