(Topic ID: 264673)

Fireball - score motor cycles continuosly, no response from scoring counters

By jlbintn

1 year ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

  • 29 posts
  • 10 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 year ago by chas10e
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

You

Linked Games

Topic Gallery

View topic image gallery

IMG_1946 (resized).JPG
fireball zipper fuse (resized).jpg
pasted_image (resized).png
fb1 (resized).jpg

#1 1 year ago

I bought this machine working. The game powers up, but will not play. The scoring motor continuously cycles, but nothing happens, there is no response from the game. It is set up pay for play. The scoring does not reset to zero. This is my first EM machine and I'm not sure where to start. The game is in decent shape, except for the cabinet, it has seen better days.

I am under the impression, based on what I could find to read, that I may have a stuck switch somewhere in the power up cycle, preventing the game from thinking it is ready to play.

#2 1 year ago

The game won’t start until the score reels all reset.
Since it was working before, it's probably just a dirty score reel. Pull out the one that’s sticking and actuate the plunger.
Likely it needs cleaning.

If that doesn’t do it. Check the 2 reset relays in the head. Make sure the switches are gapped correctly and clean.

#3 1 year ago
Quoted from brenna98:

The game won’t start until the score reels all reset.
Since it was working before, it's probably just a dirty score reel. Pull out the one that’s sticking and actuate the plunger.
Likely it needs cleaning.
If that doesn’t do it. Check the 2 reset relays in the head. Make sure the switches are gapped correctly and clean.

yeah I'd think dirty or mis-adjusted reset relay contacts keep the score reels from moving & the reels NOT being on zero is why the score motor keeps running .... a couple other things need to be reset as well , ball count & player-up ...

http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index.htm

#4 1 year ago

If you took it apart to transport, make sure your Jones plugs are all plugged in correctly and fit snugly.

#5 1 year ago

I did not transport it, but it was transported professionally, by a shipper who is no stranger to moving these machines. Something else I need is a good manual that identifies what each switch bank is, and does. I'll eventually figure that out, but right now I'm running blind, so to speak.

Thanks for the tips, I'm going to hit it fresh tomorrow, and this gives me something to start with.

#6 1 year ago
Quoted from jlbintn:

I did not transport it, but it was transported professionally, by a shipper who is no stranger to moving these machines. Something else I need is a good manual that identifies what each switch bank is, and does. I'll eventually figure that out, but right now I'm running blind, so to speak.
Thanks for the tips, I'm going to hit it fresh tomorrow, and this gives me something to start with.

http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index.htm

Yes, all you need to know is in here

#7 1 year ago
Quoted from jlbintn:

I did not transport it, but it was transported professionally, by a shipper who is no stranger to moving these machines. Something else I need is a good manual that identifies what each switch bank is, and does. I'll eventually figure that out, but right now I'm running blind, so to speak.
Thanks for the tips, I'm going to hit it fresh tomorrow, and this gives me something to start with.

Here's the manual:
https://www.ipdb.org/files/852/Bally_1972_Fireball_Manual.pdf

#9 1 year ago

PM if need anything or pics. I just finished bringing my Fireball back to life.

I also have Zipper bushings, Nyliners, and other odd parts I sourced I can kit up for you if your interested.

#10 1 year ago
Quoted from jlbintn:

The scoring motor continuously cycles, but nothing happens,

Does this start when you plug it in or when you drop a coin or when you hit the replay button?

There is a detailed description of the reset sequence on pages 2-3 in the manual on IPDB.org. How far through that sequence does the game get?

/Mark

#11 1 year ago

Ok, got the game working. All I did was tap each of the plates on the switches and it got to playing. What is this game supposed to look like, when functioning properly, in what would be attract, or idle mode. specifically the playfield and the backbox lighting.

Btw, is there a bulb puller. Some of those bulbs on the backbox are insanity makers.

There are some other issues as well, for instance, the game plays but none of the backbox lights are working. This cropped up early last evening, after a full afternoon of diving in and learning the innards. Turned it off for the day, but went back an hour later to play a game, and while the game played, no backbox lights.

Checked the fuses, they're all good, but I'm ordering new fuse holders. I hope to put the meter on the transformer today.

edit to add:

scoring motor is now functioning properly, scoring seems to be fine, but I don't know the game well enough to know if everything is scoring properly.

#12 1 year ago
Quoted from MarkG:

Does this start when you plug it in or when you drop a coin or when you hit the replay button?
There is a detailed description of the reset sequence on pages 2-3 in the manual on IPDB.org. How far through that sequence does the game get?
/Mark

Sorry, I didn't mean to ignore this. It started after I dropped a coin. The scoring motor didn't even move until I tried playing a game.

#13 1 year ago

in a pinch you can use a shooter tip rubber as a lamp puller

if you get some #455 lamps they will blink and serve as "attract mode" usually placed behind the title of the game ... they sound kind of neat too as they "click" on & off .... ( it's the kind of stuff EM guys geek-out on )

couple different types of bulb removers ...
https://www.pinballlife.com/bulb-replacement-tool.html
amazon.com link »

#14 1 year ago
Quoted from jlbintn:

What is this game supposed to look like, when functioning properly, in what would be attract, or idle mode. specifically the playfield and the backbox lighting.

No real attract mode per se in EM's. Just the occasional 455 blinking lights

#15 1 year ago

Btw, is there a bulb puller. Some of those bulbs on the backbox are insanity makers.

find you a piece of rubber hose.... (gas line hose for mowers) cut about 3-4 inches, that is what I use. works great.

#16 1 year ago
Quoted from AUfan:

Btw, is there a bulb puller. Some of those bulbs on the backbox are insanity makers.
find you a piece of rubber hose.... (gas line hose for mowers) cut about 3-4 inches, that is what I use. works great.

drain it of all fuel though we don't want the wrong kind of Fireball

#17 1 year ago
Quoted from jlbintn:

Checked the fuses, they're all good, but I'm ordering new fuse holders. I hope to put the meter on the transformer today.
edit to add:
scoring motor is now functioning properly, scoring seems to be fine, but I don't know the game well enough to know if everything is scoring properly.

No need to check the transformer. It's the fuse holders. It's a Bally. It's always the fuse holders

Easiest way to tell if a game is scoring properly is to go through and hit every possible scoring switch with your finger and observe what it does. Since Fireball is a multi-ball game you'll have to put balls in the right and left captive holes and trigger switches to see if they release properly.

This might help a little:

fb1 (resized).jpg
#18 1 year ago

You can also use an old nylon coil sleeve with some insulation tape wrapped around one edge of the sleeve's hole. I find this very good to remove stubborn bulbs.

#19 1 year ago
Quoted from dasvis:

No real attract mode per se in EM's. Just the occasional 455 blinking lights

Why would the backbox lights work, but after a power off, none of them work? Anyway, got the new fuse holders yesterday, and hope to get them installed tomorrow or Saturday.

Thanks for the tips. I'm going to order some 455's once I figure out why the backbox lights are not working.

Been busy, getting our grand-kids here from Washington, and I'm also working on a website upgrade and an old tractor

Not sure what it is about old stuff, but I like it LOL.

#20 1 year ago

when you power off ( with the switch ) it drops power to the "lock relay"

when you power ON with the switch the G.I. doesn't turn on until you either press the left flipper button -or- use a credit (dropping a coin or if credits on machine pressing the start button)

those actions will energize the "lock relay" ... older Bally machines called it an "anti-cheat relay"

#21 1 year ago
Quoted from chas10e:

when you power off ( with the switch ) it drops power to the "lock relay"
when you power ON with the switch the G.I. doesn't turn on until you either press the left flipper button -or- use a credit (dropping a coin or if credits on machine pressing the start button)
those actions will energize the "lock relay" ... older Bally machines called it an "anti-cheat relay"

I'll look into that, but that's not quite how it's behaving, but I'm still not sure of what I don't know when it comes to these older machines. I gotta admit, it's totally different from the solid states. In some of my reading, I seem to remember coming across something of that nature, although it did not involve lights. Your post just reminded me of it. It wasn't what I was looking for at the time, so I perused it quickly and scrolled down.

#22 1 year ago

The lock relay has two contacts for lamps. One playfield and one backbox. When you power on and press the left flipper button, the lock relay should lock and your lights should come on. OR, if you press the credit button from the off position...the lock relay should lock and the machine should start a game (if you have credits).

#23 1 year ago

That's not working, but I haven't had time to dive into this thing much this past week. We got our grand-kids out of the Seattle area, and have been getting them settled in.

I plan to dive into the game this week, including installing the new fuse holders.

The game will cue up credits, it will reset on the push of the credit button, and it will score. Some playfield lights aren't working, and the whole backbox has not lit up since last Sunday evening, when I cycled it off after finishing working on it. I replaced a bulb on the playfield, finished up, and the powered it down. Turned it on an hour later, just to look at it lit up after it got dark outside, and no backbox lights.

#24 1 year ago

I looked at the schematic and the owner's manual, maybe I missed it, but did not see the ratings of the four fuses. Anybody know what they are?

#25 1 year ago
Quoted from jlbintn:

I looked at the schematic and the owner's manual, maybe I missed it, but did not see the ratings of the four fuses. Anybody know what they are?

pasted_image (resized).png
#26 1 year ago

The fuse-holder had been replaced on this but the placard is still there so the spacing is a bit off

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/1972-bally-fireball-1

#27 1 year ago

Thanks to both of you.

As best as I can determine, from left to right the fuses are 12, 15, 15 and I'm not sure about the last one. Hard to read. The fuses all look good, but I'm replacing them anyway.

#28 1 year ago
Quoted from jlbintn:

Thanks to both of you.
As best as I can determine, from left to right the fuses are 12, 15, 15 and I'm not sure about the last one. Hard to read. The fuses all look good, but I'm replacing them anyway.

Seldom do project pins have the correct amperage fuses in them. Check the schematics if your labels are missing.
Normally these Bally EM use fast blow fuses, but check your schematics!

GPE is my go to place for fuses, no cheap junk here.

https://www.greatplainselectronics.com/categories.asp?cat=31

#29 1 year ago

also: 1.25 A slo-blo

https://www.greatplainselectronics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=3AG-T-1-1%2F4
IMG_1946 (resized).JPGfireball zipper fuse (resized).jpg

Hey there! Got a moment?

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run thanks to donations from our visitors? Please donate to Pinside, support the site and get anext to your username to show for it! Donate to Pinside