Fireball
Bally, 1972I have bought a Fireball (1972) which has been standing unused for quite some time.
The problem is that it is dead (no sound, no movement, no light, no nothing). I have checked the four fuses and they are all ok. I have measured the voltage to and from the transformer - all ok!
Any advise what to check next?
Quoted from nibre:I have bought a Fireball (1972) which has been standing unused for quite some time.
The problem is that it is dead (no sound, no movement, no light, no nothing). I have checked the four fuses and they are all ok. I have measured the voltage to and from the transformer - all ok!
Any advise what to check next?
Press left flipper button. Press armature of Anti-cheat or Lock relay. Make sure those fuse holders are good. Most stock ones need replacing.
Check the start sequence here: https://www.ipdb.org/files/852/Bally_1972_Fireball_Manual.pdf
Thanks!
I have replaced all the fuse holders. Now , the lights come on but everything else is dead. I have pressed the left left flipper button but I am not sure on how to "press armature of Anti-cheat or Lock relay".
I have located the plumb-bob tilt and the ball tilt above it. These switches are open.
Quoted from nibre:but everything else is dead
If the Credit button on the front doesn't activate the Credit relay, Inspect and diagnose this circuit with Alligator clip jumper wires
http://www.planetimming.com/Pinball/troubleshooting/EM%20Troubleshooting.pdf
http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index3.htm#features
Pinball (resized).pngHi nibre.if lights came on ,lock relay prob should be pulled in.look at relays in bottom of cabinet.see which one is humming maybe.or is pulled in.you can push each relay in manually.but caution.please use rubber glove .avoid shock if new to pinball mechanics.also.you have a very cool game.wish I had that pin also.on my wish list.(but can you post pictures of inside cabinet and inside back box.)it will help alot.thanks.
Pressing the armature of the Reset relay (above the Lock relay) makes the machine start (pressing Lock did nothing). The disc starts spinnig och there are some sounds and movements occurring. However, there is also a strong buzzing sound coming from the backbox and I dare not leave the machine on because it sounds like something is very wrong. The next time the machine is turned on, nothing happens. Pressing the left flipper makes the lights turn on. Pressing the Reset relay armature makes the machine start again (including the strong buzzing sound). It is hard to locate the exact origin of the backbox sound.
More advice would be appreciated.
Quoted from nibre:More advice would be appreciated.
More was given in Post #5
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/fireball-1972-is-dead#post-4854845
Hi nibre,ok.if i understand.this machine was in storage for awhile.you should prep your machine before you troubleshoot.then fix one problem at a time.no disrespect Howard.but I just finished resoldering every lug in my 1974 big shot.because all the wire ends were corroded.he probably should see clays em pinrepair to get score reels ect cleaned first.then troubleshoot one issue at a time. have not seen condition of relays ect.to know.only going by what you say.Nibre.
My ss fireball had to have all the balls installed in the game for it to work. Is an Em version the same?
Hi again Nibre.i forgot to mention .you tube has many videos on how to clean and adjust various parts.score reels,stepper units ect.i hope this helps.and good luck.just hang in there,don't give up.there are a lot of people on forum who can help.hope to see another machine up and running .
I appreciate all the help and advice I get here. Unfortunately, I am not smart/experienced enough to transfer the switch testing with alligator jumper wires to my specific situation.
My main problem right now is that the machine won’t start without pressing the left flipper button (lights) and the reset relay (mechanics) and that a strong buzzing sound starts. It sounds like something is breaking so I dare not leave it on for very long. Therefore, it is difficult to do tests.
Please, look at the video below.
Okay I have a question for you is your ball sitting in the game at the out ball kicker?
With the Playfield tilted up like that the switch that the ball sits on maybe open without the ball on it thus not starting the game
After cleaning many switches, the situation has changed. After pressing the coin relay, the mechanics gets going. However, the score wheel will not stop and the coin door coil will not stop.
Quoted from nibre:After cleaning many switches, the situation has changed. After pressing the coin relay, the mechanics gets going. However, the score wheel will not stop and the coin door coil will not stop.
So now it's simple. Tighten the score reel switch stack screws start with the screw farthest from the wire end.
Hi Nibre.ok.do you have a schematic.you should start by turning pin on .press start button.does any thing happen.have your playfield up.look to see if any coils came on ect.start there.fix one problem at a time.
Ok MrBally, I will try that.
But what about the coin door coil, constantly moving?
I also saw that a wire is loose near the coin switch. However, it does not seem to have been broken off and there is no soldering metal on it. This wire might be connected (on the other end) to the constantly moving coil. It is difficult to see because the colors on the wire are bleached.
IMG_20190303_143151 (resized).jpg
Hi Nibre.that coil in door should stay locked on.not chattering.it will probably be brownish from age constantly locked on.can you follow the wires and see where they go.at those places re solder connections.and on the coil itself.then see if coil stays on.let me know.
Hey pinsiders.does anyone by chance have schematic of fireball start circuit.and could you please post it.thank you.
Quoted from pinballbrian:Hey pinsiders.does anyone by chance have schematic of fireball start circuit.and could you please post it.thank you.
The manual and schematic are on IPDB.
"the coil that never stops" is supposed to do that, it's the "coin lock-out coil" so if on location and no power to the machine, it will return your money
the back box buzzing I am guessing a stuck playfield switch locking on a either bell solenoid ( one on the match stepper ) and a score reel.
it sounds in a later post you may have remedied that but now the score motor keeps turning, manually reset all the score reels to zero, the ball count to 1 , player up to 1, all those steppers will need to be cleaned & lubed
from the video it looks like a beautiful machine.
Clay's guide is here http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index.htm
Quoted from HowardR:The manual and schematic are on IPDB.
Quoted from nibre:I already have the schematic diagram but I find it hard to read and interpret.
And did you look at the manual?
Quoted from nibre:Ok MrBally, I will try that.
But what about the coin door coil, constantly moving?
I also saw that a wire is loose near the coin switch. However, it does not seem to have been broken off and there is no soldering metal on it. This wire might be connected (on the other end) to the constantly moving coil. It is difficult to see because the colors on the wire are bleached.
[quoted image]
As chas10e said, that coin lockout coil will disengage when the score motor runs for a cycle. If the motor keeps running due to a reset issue, the coil will constantly pulse.
Have you tightened the score reel switch stack screws as I mentioned earlier?
As you tightened each one (16 in all) did you clean & check the gap of the zero position switch ?
with an alligator jumper wire, you can figure out how to bypass all those to troubleshoot if the startup sequence difficulties are elsewhere. they are all wired in series.
Quoted from nibre:Thanks!
Where can I find the zero position switch?
Actuate the score wheel manually and you will see which one closes on zero.
The top switch is pressed up (open) for the zero position. The bottom switch is pressed down (closed) for the 9 position.
I have tried making som adjustments (because everything did not look ok) but it seems that the wheels for 100p and 1000p (player 1) don't move smoothly. The almost get stuck (or move slowly) for some positions. How do I fix that specific problem? I have read and heard that oil should NEVER be used in a pinball machine.
Is there a way to remove a score wheel with it's switches (as a "package")?
Score wheel position (resized).jpgWhere are you located? You don't have it listed on Pinside. Maybe some local help would benefit you.
lift up a little locking lever on the score reel and it will slide out towards you
Quoted from chas10e:......... all those steppers will need to be cleaned & lubed
from the video it looks like a beautiful machine.
Clay's guide is here http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index.htm
Specifically the stepper cleaning guide http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index2.htm#steps
He mentions using "Super Lube" synthetic grease where the plastic spindle turns through a hub on score reels. they should have it on the shelf at a local hardware store
This leaf adjusting tool is pretty awesome, https://www.pinballlife.com/ultimate-leaf-adjuster-tool.html
clean one at a time , preferably in a clean environment , if you drop something FIND IT !!!! magnetic telescoping tool comes in REAL HANDY in these instances.
look for the "first time cleaning a stepper unit thread .... & join the club 
Again you have a really nice machine
Quoted from Skidave:Where are you located? You don't have it listed on Pinside. Maybe some local help would benefit you.
yeah are you in New England ?
First of all: Thanks for your advice and patience!
Yeah, I know that I can pay someone to fix the machine but I really want to learn how to do this myself. Furthermore, I like the idea that the Pinside tech forum is a constantly growing knowledge database and hopefully, someone can learn something from this thread.
I removed each one of the 16 score reels, cleaned and adjusted every switch with a leaf adjustor tool (2-3 for each reel according to my image below) and I also cleaned the numbers on the score reel.
After that, I restarted the machine and activated it by pressing the armature of the coin relay. You can see what happened in the video below. All the scores were reset to zero… but the score motor did not stop (until I turned the machine off).
So, the score reel switches can be ruled out. Something else is causing the score motor to keep going.
Oh, almost forgot, you asked where I’m located. The answer is: Stockholm, Sweden.
Score reel switches (resized).jpgI noticed in the video that "player 4" lamp is lit indicating the "player up" stepper isn't resetting
the lamps for the ball count could be burned out but could be a sticky stepper there also.
there are position switches on those steppers as well
The hand drawing is how they are on the machine I have as well (had to check though)
Making good progress, Sweden is a little far for me to travel so keep us posted
Sweden, would love to come help, but you would have to purchase the plane ticket. I traveled through Sweden one time as I going across Europe.
Keep working at it. You will figure it out. This group is great.
Quoted from nibre:the score motor did not stop
Which one of these switches is keeping the score motor running?
Pinball (resized).pngQuoted from nibre:It is "Exit Alley"!
If the Exit Alley relay stays energized indefinitely, there's a problem in the operation of one of these 2 circuits:
1) The Gate Solenoid end-of-stroke switch and the Right Alley #3 rollover should activate the Exit Alley relay.
2) Then a hold switch on the Exit Alley relay should keep it energized until the 8D motor switch deenergizes it.
Pinball (resized).pngAfter cleaning and adjusting the exit alley switches, the motor stops as it should! Hooray! Thanks!
Next problem: When using the left flipper, the second fuse from the right blows. According to the manual, it should be a 15A fuse but according to a sign in the pinball machine (next to the fuse), it should be 10A (which I have used). Dare I change to 15A when the sign says 10A?
It is the fuse with the fuse puller on it in the image below.
IMG_20190313_171508 (resized).jpgThese Fuse circuit breakers are handy while diagnosing fuse blowing problems
http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=EM_Repair#Electrical_short_troubleshooting_Fuse_helper
Both the fuse card and the schematic shows a 10 Amp fuse, so stay with that value
Could be a burnt flipper coil, could see if coil is shorted with a multi-meter
Quoted from HowardR:These Fuse circuit breakers are handy while diagnosing fuse blowing problems
http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=EM_Repair#Electrical_short_troubleshooting_Fuse_helper
I picked up one of these things at an auto parts store. The only trouble is, once the problem is solved the thing seems to stay in place for awhile 
I have measured the resistance (image below). I checked the chart at https://www.flippers.com/coil-resistance.html and it should be 4.1/14.2 ohms.
The high value isn't even close...
The previous owner said that machine worked as it should when he last used it (end of the 90s). The question is what has caused the left coil to break. If I just install a new one, can that one immediately break the same way?
I have been looking for coil replacement possiblities (if I can't find the exact same coil nearby). Are there charts like that?
Flipper Coils (resized).jpgWhile I wait for a new flipper coil I have worked with the credit button problem. I have made some progress.
I used the advice from post #5 (HowardR) and discovered that the front door slam switch is NC (normally closed). It was open (see image below). I felt pretty sure that I have seen several door slam switches that are NO (normally open). Maybe Bally has different solutions for different pinball machines. Maybe it is a question of how old the machine is.
Slam (resized).jpg
Wanna join the discussion? Please sign in to reply to this topic.
Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run without any 3rd-party banners or ads, thanks to the support from our visitors? Please consider a donation to Pinside and get anext to your username to show for it! Or better yet, subscribe to Pinside+!
This page was printed from https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/fireball-1972-is-dead?hl=skidave and we tried optimising it for printing. Some page elements may have been deliberately hidden.
Scan the QR code on the left to jump to the URL this document was printed from.
Paradise, NV