Fire building light board only "some" lights out?

(Topic ID: 24421)

Fire building light board only "some" lights out?


By MT45

6 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 15 posts
  • 11 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 26 days ago by gurl_friday11
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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solderjoints.jpg
fire_board.jpg

#1 6 years ago

Help me troubleshoot a seemingly simple prob on my Williams Fire . . .

This concerns the light board in the attached pic:
Board is under the main building right in the middle of the playfield
Ignore the top row of 5 lamps . . . they all function fine
Below these are 16 "windows" (with corresponding lights) that light up but only 4 of mine do?
In the single lamp test mode I get #9 and #18 to light with one test (circled in red in pic)
In another single lamp test I get #21 and #14 (opposite corners of board and circled in yellow)

---
Here's what I've done:
Diode test on all and I get 580 something as a reading on all except the white ones which demonstrate 0 ohms like they say they should in my manual

Look at the top of the board and you'll see 2 molex connectors (one left small one and one right large one)

Hooked up the tester while in single lamp mode to test all these wires feeding board and all red wires on right side in pic show 16 volts or so, yellow wires show 3 volts

Green & White wire set (molex on left) show no voltage at all (should they?)

I'm sure this is easy but I'm not that skilled with a tester or circuit boards yet - any ideas??

fire_board.jpg

#2 6 years ago

If you jiggle that connector on the right do the lights return? Could be cracked solder joints causing only some lights to light.

Try reflowing the solder on that male header and see if they return.

#3 6 years ago

Also check to make sure the plastic lamp holders have 2 metal tabs that make contact to the board.

#4 6 years ago

Yea what they said , also clean the contacts on those bulb holder , also check the solder around were the bulb goes into the board, ive had games were there is a dead spot were the bulb socket has been making contact. I would reflow the solder on those header pins like Blackbeard said. keep us updated.

#5 6 years ago

Thanks all. Update on what I've tried (with no luck yet):
Replaced bulbs in several sockets (nothing)
Moved working bulb and bulb holder to non working bulb socket (did not work)
Wiggled, jiggled, disconnected and pushed/prodded everything that I could (did nothing)

Next step will be to see if non-working sockets are getting 16v?
Thx all

4 months later
#6 5 years ago

Did you figure this out? I have the exact same issue and I've spent some time tracing all the wires back to see what triggers this larger group of lights but no luck yet.

#7 5 years ago

I assumed I had an issue, too, because in test mode only a few windows light up. I found that during gameplay all of the others work.

#8 5 years ago

See where the connectors plug onto the board ?

Gravity and vibration is tough on them.

First thing I would do is remove the old solder and flow on new solder, on the pins on the board the connector plugs onto.

That clears up things like this.

LTG : )

#9 5 years ago

I've checked bulbs, resoldered, no luck. I cannot find a schematic on this board. The two circuits that do work were fairly easy to track down. The group that is not working, not so much. Appears the wiring goes to a relay located towards the bottom of the playfield. When running in single lamp test mode, the two smaller groups work but the third does not.

What's puzzling is the window light test comes up in the coil test, and that pulses a relay, but the lights also test in the single lamp mode but the relay does not energize.

The light group that is not lighting goes to the green/white wires at the upper left of pic. Everything powered from the right top connection works fine.

#10 5 years ago

Fixed tonight! There was one connection on a plug going to the playfield that was faulty. I still had a number of lights out but it turns out that the little plastic bulb holders were corroded enough to not make the lights work. I was able to verify this by folding the little wire on the bulb over to the other side (555 bulbs only have contact one side) and got all of them to light. Looks like some new sockets are in order.

1 year later
#11 4 years ago

I have this same problem, and I cannot resolve it. I've reflowed the solder on the headers, checked continuity on the connectors, replaced the relay and diode on the board that fires those lights, tried swapping out the bulb sockets to make sure they are ok (and held up a seperate bulb holder just to be sure). These lights simply do not light up, I'm starting to wonder if it's not a deeper issue on my CPU?

4 weeks later
#12 4 years ago

Mine has the same problem, I'm going to order new sockets and hope for the best. I also have an issue with the right house circuit board, no lights there either.

#13 4 years ago

I've also since had my right half of the GI go out mysteriously, though haven't checked fuses yet. Also, I did the bulb jumper test to make sure power is coming off the driverboard pins, looks like it's not CPU related because all pins test out.
http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Williams_System_9_-_11#Lamp_Matrix_Row_and_Column_Testing

4 months later
#14 4 years ago

I had the exact same problem as the OP and wanted to update this thread to possibly help someone else in the future.

So, in the "all lamps" test I also only had lamps #9, #14, #18, and #21 lit in the center building. This made no sense to me as I could physically move these working lights to the (apparent) non-working sockets, and still nothing.

Looking closer at the layout of the board you could see that #9, #14, #18, and #21 were all lamps that could be brought up in the individual lamp test (made sense) through the large connector in the pic from the OP (and you could trace through the circuit). The other 12 lights were not part of this circuit and controlled by the left connector which only had two wires (doubled up). So, the other 12 lights were not individually controlled (but they still should light up).

I checked the solder joints on this connector and they were pretty bad. They looked fine at first but under a magnifying lamp you could see they were all loose (and you could physically move the connector):

solderjoints.jpg

After reflowing I figured the additional 12 lights (out of the 16) in the building would now light up in the "all lamps" test - but they didn't. After looking at the schematics I realized these 12 lights were solenoid controlled (window lites relay - #16) and confirmed it by going through the coil tests (as they all lit on test #16).

I suppose this all makes sense because you'd have to have 12 additional individual lamps in the lamp matrix, and there just isn't enough room left with just 64 slots. The thing that confused me initially (and possibly some of the people above) is thinking these 12 lights would come up in the "all lamps" test, but they don't - because they are solenoid controlled and not individual lamps. I kept thinking it would have made more sense to have the relay activate and light these in the "all lamps" test, but then they wouldn't come up in the individual lamp test and that wouldn't make sense - sort of a catch-22.

I just thought it was interesting, and I did bang my head for quite a while trying to figure this out and get my Fire working 100%!

4 years later
#15 26 days ago
Quoted from pinball4ever:

I had the exact same problem as the OP and wanted to update this thread to possibly help someone else in the future.
So, in the "all lamps" test I also only had lamps #9, #14, #18, and #21 lit in the center building. This made no sense to me as I could physically move these working lights to the (apparent) non-working sockets, and still nothing.
Looking closer at the layout of the board you could see that #9, #14, #18, and #21 were all lamps that could be brought up in the individual lamp test (made sense) through the large connector in the pic from the OP (and you could trace through the circuit). The other 12 lights were not part of this circuit and controlled by the left connector which only had two wires (doubled up). So, the other 12 lights were not individually controlled (but they still should light up).
I checked the solder joints on this connector and they were pretty bad. They looked fine at first but under a magnifying lamp you could see they were all loose (and you could physically move the connector):
[quoted image]
After reflowing I figured the additional 12 lights (out of the 16) in the building would now light up in the "all lamps" test - but they didn't. After looking at the schematics I realized these 12 lights were solenoid controlled (window lites relay - #16) and confirmed it by going through the coil tests (as they all lit on test #16).
I suppose this all makes sense because you'd have to have 12 additional individual lamps in the lamp matrix, and there just isn't enough room left with just 64 slots. The thing that confused me initially (and possibly some of the people above) is thinking these 12 lights would come up in the "all lamps" test, but they don't - because they are solenoid controlled and not individual lamps. I kept thinking it would have made more sense to have the relay activate and light these in the "all lamps" test, but then they wouldn't come up in the individual lamp test and that wouldn't make sense - sort of a catch-22.
I just thought it was interesting, and I did bang my head for quite a while trying to figure this out and get my Fire working 100%!

I thought the house only lit at multiball and attract ...
i just started testing and found your post super saved me a lot of time ...can’t say thanks enough ...your awesome

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